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Messages - Ginorey

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The Hydlaa Plaza / Re: More Faces Behind the Players
« on: December 14, 2006, 07:17:26 am »


Me sitting at the computer desk.

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This has happened to me, as well.  Two days ago, I purchased a silverweave dagger from another player.  The next day, I logged back in and it was gone.  Someone should definitely look into this.

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General Discussion / Re: NPC using an expletive?
« on: December 01, 2006, 05:42:18 am »
This page is from the present-day BBC.  May I call your attention to part 3, in the section titled 'Offensive Language/Gestures'.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/commissioning/delivery/edguidance.shtml


Irrelevant.  Ethnographic research present in this community trumps reference provided above.  Further, BBC is ultrasensitive to offending anyone, and is therefore not a good comparison.  If you can't stand to have the word "bugger" in a game, then you probably shouldn't watch tv, listen to the radio, or read literature of any sort.  I'd also advise against going outside or having relatives visit you.


Ethnographic research?  So you've polled the entire PS community on this and have the results sorted out by race or place of origin?  I can only assume this is what you meant by that phrase, since ethnography is the study of human cultures.  I would be interested in seeing the results of this research of yours.  Next time you see me on IRC, could you do me the great favor of sending me a copy?

As far as the rest of your post, I've heard the word before in the media, but in the phrase 'little bugger', not 'buggers like you.'  And I've read the term many times in different forms of literature.  But this is all moot, because (and I hope this is the last time I have to state this) I don't personally care about the word at all.  What I care about is that other people might take it as objectional or offensive.  Am I clear on that now?  Or do I have to put it in bold letters for you?

And, by the way, I can certainly assure you that I know more about what my relatives would say to me than you do.  So let's leave them out of it, shall we?

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General Discussion / Re: NPC using an expletive?
« on: December 01, 2006, 03:34:02 am »
Someone expressed an interest in the etymology of the word in question here.  From http://www.geocities.com/bogomil1bg/Buggerstudy.html:

As was already mentioned, in the next century The Oxford English Dictionary marked the connection "bougres/buggers" or "heretics who came from Bulgaria in the 11th century" with "Albigenses" (Cathars). It is also pointed out that, according to R. Brunne Cron. of 1330, "bugger" entered the English language with the double meaning of sodomite and heretic: "þe Kyng said & did crie, þe pape was heretike... and lyued in bugerie".

And I consider myself done with this thread.

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General Discussion / Re: NPC using an expletive?
« on: December 01, 2006, 03:07:33 am »
This page is from the present-day BBC.  May I call your attention to part 3, in the section titled 'Offensive Language/Gestures'.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/commissioning/delivery/edguidance.shtml

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General Discussion / Re: NPC using an expletive?
« on: December 01, 2006, 02:51:21 am »

Today it's this word, tommorow fix ups on the Art, slight changes.(Only 4 minutes each)
The next day other things, like the grass.

This is B.S and everyone knows it, If you're affended by the Word Bugger, UNDERSTAND A ROBOT JUST SAID IT TO YOU, not a Person.

~~Datruth

Datruth, I haven't noticed any artwork that could be considered offensive in this game.  Nor have I seen any grass that could be considered offensive.  So those examples are not in context with the current debate.

As for this being B.S. and everyone knowing it, this is untrue.  If it was, this thread would not have been started in the first place.

As for your declaration that 'A ROBOT' said it to me, consider that this is supposed to be an emulation of an existing, persistent, medieval world.  You are expected to talk to NPCs as if they were real people.  Indeed, in many instances the NPCs will not even respond to you unless you use the correct sentence.  So if you are supposed to treat the NPCs like real people, there responses are meant to be as from a real person.  And since I'm not allowed to swear in this game, according to the rules and my own personal consideration, I'd expect the NPCs to be just as considerate and follow the same rules.

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General Discussion / Re: NPC using an expletive?
« on: December 01, 2006, 02:36:26 am »
As for your statement that the NPC doesn't mean it in that context, how do you know?

Being on the dev team often makes such things clear. Moreover, if you cannot understand that the NPC is not trying to call anyone a "sodomite," it's really your problem at this point and I'm going to sit here and shake my head at you :)

I find this entire thread quite stupid, and I'm not worried about admitting it.

Here we go again.  Another missed point to explain.  I'm not talking about my opinion.  I personally don't care about the word being used.  I can cuss like a sailor (because I was one, for one thing.)  But I don't.  No matter how mad I've gotten at some of the things done and said in this game, I haven't once used a swear word to express my contempt or disdain.  And it's not because I respect your rules or anything else.  It's because I care about offending other people.

It is the rest of the population of the world that I care about.  That is a grand scale, I know.  But we already have players from many, many countries playing this game.  And this game has the possibility of reaching a grand scale, which I am truly hoping for and is one of the reasons I came back to it.  It has the possibility of reaching a very large audience.  And if one person - actually, I can't start that way.  One person has already been offended by it.  More than one person has been offended by it.  When your audience gets larger, more will be offended by it.  The odds are in my favor on that.

And, as Malfini and I have already stated, it is not a major change to be made.


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General Discussion / Re: NPC using an expletive?
« on: December 01, 2006, 02:05:00 am »
This is very funny.  And very unnecessary.  We are not talking about a major rewrite of the game's code.  We're not even talking about changing the whole NPC dialog.  We're talking about the difference that one letter could make.  Changing the 'u' to an 'e' in the NPC dialog could be done in less than a minutes work, and would save the possibility of someone being offended or having their children exposed to language that *is still* considered offensive in many parts of the world.

Karyuu, since you've decided to adopt the position of judge in this debate, I'll address this to you.  I asked my mother, my two brothers, my sister, and 3 friends what the word 'bugger' meant to them.  All of them answered that it was as a synonym for the word 'sodomite', or words to that effect.  As for your statement that the NPC doesn't mean it in that context, how do you know?  Does the NPC state that somewhere?  If he did, then that would be an important piece of information that was left out of this discussion.  If he didn't, then you are merely offering us *your* interpretation of what the NPC said.  And I can pretty much guarantee that your interpretation is not that of the entire world, unless you made the effort to offer a world-wide poll on the subject.

This is a question of morality, or immorality, as the case may be.  The word *is* considered vulgar in many parts of the world, not just Britain.  And it seems to me that, if players can get banned for using foul language or harassing other players, even the possibility of an NPC using a word that can be considered vulgar in anyway should not be allowed.  Otherwise, the rule against foul language is hypocritical, as somewhere, sometime, a person is going to read it and be offended.  If you're going to take a stance against being offensive, then don't play at it.  Do it!

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