NPC using an expletive?

[Ginorey]

As for your statement that the NPC doesn't mean it in that context, how do you know?

Being on the dev team often makes such things clear. Moreover, if you cannot understand that the NPC is not trying to call anyone a "sodomite," it's really your problem at this point and I'm going to sit here and shake my head at you

I find this entire thread quite stupid, and I'm not worried about admitting it.

Here we go again.  Another missed point to explain.  I'm not talking about my opinion.  I personally don't care about the word being used.  I can cuss like a sailor (because I was one, for one thing.)  But I don't.  No matter how mad I've gotten at some of the things done and said in this game, I haven't once used a swear word to express my contempt or disdain.  And it's not because I respect your rules or anything else.  It's because I care about offending other people.

It is the rest of the population of the world that I care about.  That is a grand scale, I know.  But we already have players from many, many countries playing this game.  And this game has the possibility of reaching a grand scale, which I am truly hoping for and is one of the reasons I came back to it.  It has the possibility of reaching a very large audience.  And if one person - actually, I can't start that way.  One person has already been offended by it.  More than one person has been offended by it.  When your audience gets larger, more will be offended by it.  The odds are in my favor on that.

And, as Malfini and I have already stated, it is not a major change to be made.

[Janner]

Several sources I have looked at say that "bugger" is also a legitimate informal term, as shown by Miadon :] We can go back and forth - I'm not posting in this thread to change your opinions, Malfini and Janner, but to explain that you are using "bugger" as a very outdated expletive, which has lost any vulgar meaning in the modern world and "gained" several other definitions. Again, the NPC in question is not using it to mean "sodomite," so all your arguments are ultimately, completely moot.

 Going by your logic gained buy HOW many years as a adult?  present day swear words will be outdated in a few years, so you have opened up the door to the use of them now, as in a few years time they will be out of date.

[Ginorey]

Today it's this word, tommorow fix ups on the Art, slight changes.(Only 4 minutes each)
The next day other things, like the grass.

This is B.S and everyone knows it, If you're affended by the Word Bugger, UNDERSTAND A ROBOT JUST SAID IT TO YOU, not a Person.

~~Datruth

Datruth, I haven't noticed any artwork that could be considered offensive in this game.  Nor have I seen any grass that could be considered offensive.  So those examples are not in context with the current debate.

As for this being B.S. and everyone knowing it, this is untrue.  If it was, this thread would not have been started in the first place.

As for your declaration that 'A ROBOT' said it to me, consider that this is supposed to be an emulation of an existing, persistent, medieval world.  You are expected to talk to NPCs as if they were real people.  Indeed, in many instances the NPCs will not even respond to you unless you use the correct sentence.  So if you are supposed to treat the NPCs like real people, there responses are meant to be as from a real person.  And since I'm not allowed to swear in this game, according to the rules and my own personal consideration, I'd expect the NPCs to be just as considerate and follow the same rules.

[zanzibar]

Are people in modern times offended by the word "bugger"?  Isn't it a medieval term?

[Shakilai]

present day swear words will be outdated in a few years, so you have opened up the door to the use of them now, as in a few years time they will be out of date.

I don't know what "logic" the poster Karyuu used (seemed more like an explanation of facts), but your piece above looks to be of the nonsensical kind. The word "bugger" is no longer used as a swear word in the great majority of the word, and that's why it's not a big deal. Except of course to the people who evidently like waving their arms in supposed concern for the rest of the world.

I find this absolutely laughable, that there are people in here who seem to find such great offense with something so trivial. Grow a backbone

[Ginorey]

This page is from the present-day BBC.  May I call your attention to part 3, in the section titled 'Offensive Language/Gestures'.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/commissioning/delivery/edguidance.shtml

[wildfire]

To settle this:

1) Bugger these days is not a swear or even a cuss word.  I here kids in elementary school (not lieing here) use sh*t and F*** all the time.  bugger is simply not a bad word.  Yes, language does evolve and this word has done so.

2) If you are offended than don't play.  Simply put.  It is YOUR choice to play.  If you are upset, disagree, yadada, dont play.

3) This is a select case where most people coudln't care less.  If a game dev changed every little thing everyone said annoyed them or would improve the game, the server would be down 95% of the time.

4) as an adult, I would think that you have had enough time to learn complaining gets you know where in life.  If you have an issue like this, go to iirc or pm the devs about it.  Don't complain on community threads.  And no, the world does not revolve around you just incase you happen to believe that (not saying you do, but just making sure you know).

I think that covers just about all of it.
Someone pls lock this thread.

[Malfini]

This page is from the present-day BBC.  May I call your attention to part 3, in the section titled 'Offensive Language/Gestures'.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/commissioning/delivery/edguidance.shtml

That is an extremely helpful link Ginorey . It seems the British Broadcasting Corporation does consider "bugger" an offensive word after all. Since this game *supposedly* uses British English, you would think that this would be apparent.

[Xordan]

* Xordan adds a couple of other buggers to the NPCs. h0h0h0

[Shauri Sutlar]

hmm..just to chime in in a way that may (hopefully) clear things up a little, i have just sat and read five pages of a thread about this subject.  nowhere has the line been given so that others may actually see the context in which the word is used.

i personally have used this word as an expletive, and often i'm a bit ashamed to say.  i'm an american and even /i/ know what this word means.  all the other definitions that have been give are informal only by virtue of the word's usage for so long. 

if the devs don't want to change it, fine.  that's their right.  it is a slightly minor thing, as was stated in the initial post, "under certain circumstances" this word is used. 

it also occurs that i never bothered to sit down and actually /count/ how many times that word has been used in this very thread (discounting the dictionary entries that were meant to be helpful).

call me silly if you like, as i care not if it is removed.  but it seems to bother some people, and rightly so.  the devs have been made aware.  this thread has served its purpose

~Shauri Zann, concerned mother of a nine-year-old

[Karyuu]

And we shouldn't use "black man" when referring to a Diaboli male either, because that's just not proper these days, right? Wouldn't want to offend anyone who takes games way too seriously after all.

Relax, folks. Life is way too short to make a fuss out of something so itty-bitty eentsy-weentsy. I'm not filtering this word out of the forums until kids get sent out of class for using it in schools, and so I don't think we'll be changing anything in-game. The devs are aware of this thread, as Shauri pointed out, and are aware of all the arguments. If nothing gets changed, don't storm around with pitchforks and torches.

*edited for the post below*

Now you're just repeating things...

[Ginorey]

Someone expressed an interest in the etymology of the word in question here.  From http://www.geocities.com/bogomil1bg/Buggerstudy.html:

As was already mentioned, in the next century The Oxford English Dictionary marked the connection "bougres/buggers" or "heretics who came from Bulgaria in the 11th century" with "Albigenses" (Cathars). It is also pointed out that, according to R. Brunne Cron. of 1330, "bugger" entered the English language with the double meaning of sodomite and heretic: "þe Kyng said & did crie, þe pape was heretike... and lyued in bugerie".

And I consider myself done with this thread.

[Malfini]

hmm..just to chime in in a way that may (hopefully) clear things up a little, i have just sat and read five pages of a thread about this subject.  nowhere has the line been given so that others may actually see the context in which the word is used.

i personally have used this word as an expletive, and often i'm a bit ashamed to say.  i'm an american and even /i/ know what this word means.  all the other definitions that have been give are informal only by virtue of the word's usage for so long. 

if the devs don't want to change it, fine.  that's their right.  it is a slightly minor thing, as was stated in the initial post, "under certain circumstances" this word is used. 

it also occurs that i never bothered to sit down and actually /count/ how many times that word has been used in this very thread (discounting the dictionary entries that were meant to be helpful).

call me silly if you like, as i care not if it is removed.  but it seems to bother some people, and rightly so.  the devs have been made aware.  this thread has served its purpose

~Shauri Zann, concerned mother of a nine-year-old

When I made this thread, I thought the developers would understand. I didn't think we would all argue for 5 pages or more. The fact of the matter is that the word could offend some people and it seems incredibly easy to remedy. I don't know why it is taking so much time to talk common sense to people. It is very disappointing. If the developers don't want to take out a word that could very easily be interpreted as the NPC calling you a "sodomite" that is their choice, indeed.

Ginorey don't forget that the Catholic church accused the "heretical group" of performing sodomy. That is how it came to be known as meaning "sodomy" to begin with.

[Xordan]

Which NPC is it anyway?

[Malfini]

Which NPC is it anyway?

Raithen says it.