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Messages - Fethrin

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Complaint Department / Re: The Gods Must be Crazy!
« on: August 20, 2007, 08:51:40 pm »
Quote
Oh really.

Yes really. If you can read constructive criticism without getting hot under the collar, yes really. Roderyck Slywolfe has been genuine, constructive, critical, AND impersonal as I read it.
You should try it.

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Complaint Department / Re: The Gods Must be Crazy!
« on: August 20, 2007, 08:44:11 pm »
Eyoro, you'll notice that I'm not disagreeing with you. I have said multiple times that this is only step one of balancing out the economy, and not the only change that will come. We just can't fix everything in one sitting, so some things will appear skewed at first.

Tell you what - I'm NOT looking forward to step 2 !!

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Complaint Department / Re: The Gods Must be Crazy!
« on: August 20, 2007, 04:33:33 pm »
Thanks Eyoro.

Imagine this all you who want respawning every hour.....

100 players online all smack an NPC.

What do you do for the next hour?

Tell me you go mining!

Hahahaha

4
Complaint Department / Re: The Gods Must be Crazy!
« on: August 20, 2007, 03:56:45 pm »
I stood for 15 mins by Percival to see how many Elves popped in. 3 came in, in 15 mins. That's just elves.
Lets say of all species just for the sake of argument that 100 a DAY come into the game.
That's only 3650 a year. That's still quite a lot of players.
Saturday afternoon in the UK, dads asleep in front of the telly, mums doing dinner, kids upstairs playing games. Peak time for gamers.

How many were playing PS online?
103

out of possibly 3 million gamers in the UK, a similar number in France, probably more in Germany - and I have no idea of the population of the States.

103

People like the game, but they hate being messed around.

The guy down my local shop asked me the other week what game I was playing now. I told him PS.

Can you guess what he said?
Yup. He said it's too frustrating because it doesn't work.
Last time he played it was a year ago.

Not much has changed.

If an engine isn't broken. Don't fix it!
Set aside times, just out of courtesy, for maintenance & upgrades. Make only small changes.
And at least think about the players rather than just development.

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Complaint Department / Re: The Gods Must be Crazy!
« on: August 18, 2007, 08:37:16 am »
@Bilbous
Thugs, mercenaries, cutthroats, rogues, in fact all NPCs from which/whom loot can be gained are insufficient in number and diversity of combatant strengths to accommodate the financial needs of all players at any one time. If this became the major source of financial gain, players with high skills and fast macros would be looting them all while lesser skilled players were left with the options others didn’t want.

Gold is still used and quoted as an index, and all major commodities are reserved to maintain price and market interest.

“THe world banking system currently in effect is a gigantic confidence scheme.”
I couldn’t agree more, but we are getting away from the point.

“It was meant to be a friendly "get over it" not derisive.”
Yes, I believe that.

“So you want to be spoon-fed mining locations?”
You missed the point entirely.
I spent best part of a day with a new player who believed there might be other ‘undiscovered’ gold locations. So the two of us, having set up the macros went all over the hills searching, and of course found nothing. Tectonic activity would change the landscape, and we would spot that. The point I am making is that having covered that ground once and found no gold, we won’t keep going over and over it in the off chance that developers would make some ‘appear’ from nowhere.
You can only go so far when tinkering with the dynamics. Do it too much and it will become insurmountably frustrating.

@Xillix

‘alarmist noun someone who spreads unnecessary alarm. adj causing unnecessary alarm.’ Chambers.

I am unable to see any cause for alarm in the title or the content of the original post.
I think a very fair and reasonable concern is expressed, and expects the same format of response. It’s a concern expressed by many players during online play.
In fact it’s also a frustration expressed by players that needs resolving.

“…..all the argumentation that there is no other way to make money etc. This is simply untrue.”
Of course there are other ways to make money. But they are massively imbalanced.
You, I know are fully aware of that. I don’t need to point out the sale price of iron, coal, emeralds & diamonds to you. So you deemed gold to have been exploited. Possibly. Probably. But to just slash extraction without bringing up realistic comparative prices on other minerals & gems makes absolutely no sense.
Players need some dependability within the structure of a game, and by simply taking that from them is what will cause alarm.

Your words were not taken out of context at all.

@ Maju
“What he means is that you can't eat gold, drink gold, use gold for weapons or clothes”
Of course I realise that. But gold has a different use from other metals, which is explicitly different, and this gives it considerable usefulness within the environment.
And I think every player is aware of the remainder of your post.
**********
The point remains, and is so far unresolved, that where they may have been an imbalance of gold ore extraction & sale, there is now an even greater imbalance in the economy by simply reducing the supply by that much.

The original post makes a very valid point voicing the opinions of many players.
As yet, despite the number of replies to the post, and several good ideas, there are no solutions being offered.

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Complaint Department / Re: The Gods Must be Crazy!
« on: August 17, 2007, 08:09:05 pm »
1.   “It seems to me that if you were to fight thugs (mostly), rogues or mercenaries for a while you would have plenty mundane weapons to spare.”

Are you seriously implying that there are sufficient ‘thugs’ of differing grades to satisfy the looting requirements of all players’ diversity of skill ranking?

      2. “There was such a glut of gold on the market that in any real economy its value would have plummeted. Would you rather they had left the mining of gold the same and reduced its price tenfold? That doesn't even consider that such a heavily mined lode might run out.”

Oh dear.
All countries that compete in the global financial markets carry repositories and reserves of all precious commodities. In particular gold, since it is an indexing commodity similar to the Dow Jones and LSE. The reason for this is to stabilise economies and to maintain an artificially high price.

Why tenfold? What does that relate to? Why is any drastic change required? What is the value of this point? 

Heavily mined? Run out? Are you suggesting that what happens in real life should equate to a simulation? If so you ought to recognise that gold is currently valued at $694 an ounce. 1 carat is 0.2 g. If you do your calculations you’ll soon see that 240 trias for a lump of gold doesn’t relate to a diamond selling for 40 or 60 trias.

3.   “My advice is get over it, things change, things will continue to change.”

Your armchair politics will change nothing. If you look back over the responses to the original post, you will see that a lot of good suggestions have evolved from what was an objective criticism open for debate. We are all fully aware that things change, and that is the reason for posting observations in the first place.

4.   “Who is to say that there is not some other field out there waiting to be discovered or being harvested by those in the know?”

Well, if that is what is happening, the poor developers will have to ensure that no one has been over that area before searching for commodities, and besides, why bother? It’s a waste of time for all gamers to go round searching for a means of income when all they want to do is get on with the game.

5. “When the amount of players mining gold goes from 10% to 90% there is a problem that needs addressing. Perhaps it was not the most elegant method of balancing but gold was mostly a useless commodity.”

Where on earth did you get these figures up from? And 10% and 90% of what exactly? And how can gold be a useless commodity when it provides the main means of income for the majority of players?

I think your proposed factually based debate lacks facts.

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Complaint Department / Re: The Gods Must be Crazy!
« on: August 17, 2007, 10:03:11 am »
After a couple of days struggling to earn a crust digging gold!
We ought really to mention beginners. This is an imbalanced struggle now, since my pp have reach 4,000 and my trias are once again zero. Where I note a change in my own game behaviour, is that I cannot afford to give new starters a helping hand.
Just a week or so ago, I was able to assist a newbie (who had been struggling in the sewers for 2 days), with a pair of swords and a set of armour. That person was on the brink of throwing the towel in. The sudden jump to be able to acquire pp instead of exp made all the difference.
I found another today, but I couldn't spare the money since it is so hard to come buy.
One experienced player was trying to sell swords, but no-one was buying since they needed all their tria for training.

I agree with Roderyck Slywolfe that this is repercussive and imbalanced.
I suspect that you'll find a higher fallout rate of new players for the reasons I've mentioned, a greater fallout of experienced players since their trades are being hit by having fewer buyers, and an overall discontent as the difficulty level shoots through the roof.

The game already suffers from poor stability, so it demands a certain amount of patience & tolerance to play it.
The developers have compounded their problems in my opinion, and that is a shame, since basically it's a very good game.
I run  company, and I know the knock on effects of even small price changes.
Every merchant, on every rung of the ladder, needs sellers so he can buy and sell on, goods or services.
With less money there are less buyers. It isn't a strategy, it's an economy. And it applies to a structured game like this which emulates life.

In real life, this is called a recession.

I reccomend you revert a little.

*edit*

Xillix uses the expression "alarmist thread".

Actually, it is not alarmist.
The original thread post was well written, unbiased, very logically expressed, and without emotional content, which is not in the least alarmist.
What IS alarmist is that the developers have realised an imbalance, and reacted instead of responding.
To make any sudden economic change is foolhardy as any chancellor knows, but developers wouldn't know this as they are artistically minded rather than financially. Which is a good trait. Without them there would be no game.

What should have happened is what many have pointed out, small changes to other ores & gems first, lowering the interest in gold a little, and at the same time very slightly lowering gold supplies. There would have been a gradual change over, that probably few players would have noticed.
The difficulty for the developers now, is to rectify the situation.
And it does have to be rectified.
This isn't a question of "I wrote the game so I must be right", because what they are doing is making it up as they go along, which is very unprofessional, and puts an even greater burden of tolerance on players.
After all you need these players. Without them there is no game either.

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