The Extinction of a Race

[MishkaL1138]

This thread has gone out of hand and I deeply request it's locked and maybe even pruned. Talad, I think it would be a very smart move to post an apology thread to all the players roleplaying Diaboli, maybe offering a reward for putting up for all those years and asking them to understand what just happened. Everyone has said things they didn't mean, and this has escalated even to the point there is people with a temporal ban.

@Aensor & AiwendilH: My point was indeed valid and if it disturbs anyone nobody is forced to dwell on it. We all can learn how to get over it.
@Catlemur: I'm so tired of you spewing shit about me all around the forums and IRC I won't even bother replying to you. Instead, I'd rather listen to Pavarotti singing Nessun Dorma. If you continue that way, you'll slip and then it'll end up badly for you. Also, use space after periods.

Summarizing for lazy readers: Stop stirring shit.



@Boeven: Dickhead!

[Eelin]

I am sure those that are playing Diaboli would not mind to wait ....

I'll affirm this thought. Really, where is the urgency to delete a race? Put us on the back burner for a while but let us live.  

[miomo]

I'm not sure if this concept was discussed in another forum (I did search) but even still, perhaps it is useful to bring it up here as a possible idea going forward.

I understand the decision to have a separate license for the game content that is orthogonal to the open-source license placed on the source code, and I deeply respect that decision. However, I have on occasion wondered if there might be sufficient interest to create a viable economy around player-created game assets. Looking at the fan art section of this forum shows that there are very talented players, and I'm not sure that all of them are also on the settings team. There are other programs that allow for the players to create their own in-game content (I believe Second Life does) so it's not a completely off-the-wall concept.

The way I would see this working would be that we could have a secondary repository for player content to be stored, and then each player would have to explicitly enable their client to download from that repository, with the knowledge that this content may not be up to the level expected of the official content, or may violate the continuity of the story. The content in here could be put under a different license, say open-source or an equivalent creative-commons license, or even public domain. Additionally, the development team could review submissions to this area and ask authors if they wouldn't mind relicensing their content under the PS content license and thus making their creation an official part of the game.

It's just an idea, and potentially a way to open up a new market for in-game content that, for whatever reason, current creative talent in our community isn't joining the development team to assist with. Of course there can be many things wrong with this, but, if the player community were to come up with their own models for the Diaboli race, then that could potentially alleviate the development team from having to make this difficult decision, or at least reduce its impact.

[Mask]

I'm not sure if this concept was discussed in another forum (I did search) but even still, perhaps it is useful to bring it up here as a possible idea going forward.

I understand the decision to have a separate license for the game content that is orthogonal to the open-source license placed on the source code, and I deeply respect that decision. However, I have on occasion wondered if there might be sufficient interest to create a viable economy around player-created game assets. Looking at the fan art section of this forum shows that there are very talented players, and I'm not sure that all of them are also on the settings team. There are other programs that allow for the players to create their own in-game content (I believe Second Life does) so it's not a completely off-the-wall concept.

The way I would see this working would be that we could have a secondary repository for player content to be stored, and then each player would have to explicitly enable their client to download from that repository, with the knowledge that this content may not be up to the level expected of the official content, or may violate the continuity of the story. The content in here could be put under a different license, say open-source or an equivalent creative-commons license, or even public domain. Additionally, the development team could review submissions to this area and ask authors if they wouldn't mind relicensing their content under the PS content license and thus making their creation an official part of the game.

It's just an idea, and potentially a way to open up a new market for in-game content that, for whatever reason, current creative talent in our community isn't joining the development team to assist with. Of course there can be many things wrong with this, but, if the player community were to come up with their own models for the Diaboli race, then that could potentially alleviate the development team from having to make this difficult decision, or at least reduce its impact.

 

Yes!
I had a similar idea some time ago, and turns out I am not the only one. Very good. This might cure one or two problem, create new ones, too, but hey.
Any official wants to give a statement to this idea?

[LigH]

About addressing player concerns this was the reason for me to answer the posts and explain the reasons, but seems is not really appreciated.

I thank you for trying to explain ... but in fact, I can't call anything you said a "reason". In my personal opinion (and the one of many others, certainly), I see no relation between the planned action and the statement you call a "reason". I only see a lot of consequences coming over us in the future if you insist in finishing your plans.

This is not the historical Japan. You are not urged to suicide if you confess you did a mistake, being a superior. Instead, you should rather be afraid of your project dying if you can't decide to listen to our concerns. We may not always agree with you; but it may happen that we prefer protecting PlaneShift over protecting you.

Hereby I confess a mistake of myself: I have issues reading lengthy english chapters. I was not able to understand the statements above completely. I am not certain what will happen to the existing Diaboli characters (if they will be deleted, converted, receive any kind of redress for their loss...). A list of brief facts may help to recognise the consequences better.

[Chessire]

My objection in deleting the diaboli race is that it has been a successful race that the players embraced and have been playing for long even though there has been no model, which was a handicap in RPs (people treat differently an evil looking ynnwn than they would a charming diavoli). The same hasn't happened with other races as lemurs or male nolthirs, not in that scale at least. So this isn't about specific individuals loosing their race, diavoli have really been a well functioning part of the game so far, and often a key element in roleplays thanks to their chaotic nature.

Despite that, posting here to complain or insult anyone is making things worse and takes away any meaning form this thread. You people are not helping. If you think diaboli should not be removed just post why you believe so and support your opinion in a way that will show how serious you are about this. Posts like "don't take away my race" or "Talad you are destroying the game" are bound not to be taken seriously. Because in any game the devs are the ones who do the work and since they are creating stuff they are more serious about the game content than those who play.

[verden]

I feel this thread has gone pretty wrong, just my opinion. About addressing player concerns this was the reason for me to answer the posts and explain the reasons, but seems is not really appreciated.

If you think this thread went wrong, then imagine if you had announced the removal of the Enkidukai?

I would say that the response in this thread to your statement, shows that it is the correct course of action. Part of the problem with this project is that it is unfinished but it is treated like a finished product by many people. In order to finish, the project must be simplified before it can be properly expanded.

I have always questioned the wisdom of making publicly available a software project that is in a drastically unfinished state. People take this sort of thing too seriously. Game changes amount to personal affronts and insults. Any nerf is met with an deluge of criticism and predictions of project death.

Remember the response to changing the dueling system? The fixing of Silverweaves? The removal of the platinum mine below the Laanx temple? There can be no true community in PlaneShift until the game is properly defined and the limits and balances understood.

If I was in charge of the project, I would limit playable races to one each of the basics: Human, Dwarf, Kran, Enki, Ynnwn, and Klyros. Six playable races to work on during development is still a monumental task to plan, model, skin, test, tweak and balance.

Then when the project reaches stable after 1.0 and any deep considerations have been revealed, then add playable races that are subsets of the original race. Such as the various Enki tribes, Diaboli and dwarven flavors, et cetera.

Talad you appear to be in a position where it might be best to remember that it doesn't matter what they say about you, because the real problems happen when they don't talk about you at all anymore.

[sashia_mennar]

Trying to find any sense in what the Devs say.

Tefusanglings and marfusangs have no models of their own. They are the same tefusangs all over again, rescaled and repainted somewhat. No backstory.
Four species of arangmas share the same model, they are just colored differently. No backstory either.
Things like that make the game look half-baked, and the team lacks resources to fix the situation. No one plays a tefusangling or an arangma.
Are they going to be flushed down the toilet? No. Not that we know of.

Something very wrong is going on. I'm not especially happy to side with Aiwendil on that, but it seems there's no other choice left to the players. "They" don't respect neither the world itself, nor our choices, so why should "we" respect the choices "they" make? Respect the true Settings instead, play your Diaboli according to what was created by the previous Devs team, the one that made the world and is long gone by now. In some cases, gone rather unwillingly.
What could "they" possibly do to stop that from happening? Take the Diaboli model away? Update the main site? Start banning role players for "bad" descriptions? Oh yeah. *crying out loud*

[Oronec]

I apologize for taking your PM and posting it in an angered state of mind. I stepped over the line in doing so, and I realize that now. Being the Leader and maker of a game is not easy: you have a great game going, Talad. If I could take back the thread that I made, I would. If I could take back prematurely finding out about the change to come, I would. Because after reading many posts, both the devs' and players', I've come to realize this: As a role player on a beta game, I should be able to find IC ways to adapt to change, and not criticize them without giving it some real thought.

It won't happen again. At least, not from me.

Sincerely,
Oronec

I am not begging for forgiveness, I am not kissing up to the Team. But with realization and my own self reasoning provided by a lot of the posts above stating ways to cope with the abrupt change I can do no more than shrug and say "It's a beta game". A couple of you thought up reasonable ways to ICly cope with the change, and even though I don't plan on going through with any of them, I think it would be an interesting twist to the Diaboli that do stay around.

We're role players after all. If change occurs, we adapt and find ways to make it more interesting and enjoyable for ourselves and the rest of the community.

I could have been more civil when I went about making this thread. But then again, who is now days? We can still voice our complaints, our opinions, our anything on this matter and any other... Just not in the manner I did it, because well, I went about it the immature way.  

-Oronec,
Avid Diaboli RPer

[Talad]

Ok, enough. I took some time to check the IPs of the people in this thread, and found an alt, which was already banned for trolling. deleted all his posts now. rest in peace.

For all the others who are getting confused about this thread, please note that the diaboli race has NOT been deleted. More information will follow as we see fit. Remember the game is under development and subject to change without notice.