A Complaint

[bilbous]

bring back the girl with the supernatural halitosis from the silver mine.

[Candy]

Eldemar was a girl?!

[ether]

I think Rigwyn said it best:

Casual rp is cliche too, so there.


I think the issue is that there are very few role players on at any given time. As a result your angst-driven, moronic, skull bashing crowd is too close to your girly tea sipping crowd and so on. (That crowd includes your goodies with a well hidden baddie bad side xD)

With a larger population, I think we might see more players clumping together into groups with similar interests. That would lead to fewer goodie two-shoes players bitching about how unoriginal the baddies are, and fewer baddies wanting to piss all over the tea and doily extravaganzas.

I've been RPing for like 12 years, and I'm just going to say things that have already been said:

- Be the change you want to see.  Fact is: people that RP like RP.  Any RP.  Sit in the tavern and wait for someone to drop in, greet people IC when you see them.  Things like that.
- "Casual RP" or "BaRP" (Bar + RP) as me and my friends used to call it important for character development and the creation and sustaining of inter-character relationships and often the progression of the details of plots.
- The fact of the matter is that RP, as it has always been, is about creative interactive storytelling.  And  a story doesn't happen without a plot.  That's where we get our evil mages and hidden baddies.  Without a central plot or some problem to overcome, there's no struggle to be had, and things quickly become stale as all RP is reduced to stagnant, pointless BaRP and rampant ERP.
- There needs to be a balance of BaRP and plot-based RP, and you'll almost always see an increase in one if you see an increase in the other.

[Illysia]

I would mostly agree except for one thing. Conflict/struggle does not equal fighting or trying to nab each other, it's two possible sources. I had plenty of "bar-RP" that had conflict and struggle that didn't necessarily include anything physical. All you need for conflict is a conflict of interests. Even physical danger isn't the only prompt for that.

[Mariana Xiechai]

An interesting topic, one that I have varying viewpoints on. In a way I agree with ebonwoman's statement; chatty RP that is too casual I can do in the real world, and thus my interest in it is slightly diminished. However, that is not to say that conversational RP is negative in all cases. I've had my fair share of more intriguing conversations, which usually involve something deeper. Things like;

* Mariana Xiechai looks down, back up again, chagrin evident on her features. Her eyes take on a glassy appeal, the sorrow in them coming into sharp focus. By some form of inner resolve, she snaps them shut and takes a deep, meditative breath, opening them only when the cap on her emotions has been screwed tightly back into place, and looks up at her interrogator's eyes fearlessly. "That is not necessary for you to know."

If you're talking to someone about their past, about something they have experienced lately that you would typically not come into contact with in the real world, then certainly it is intriguing in its novelty. It's basically the difference between chatting about shoes and having a deep philosophical conversation with someone. The prior will never hold my attention, I'd sooner beat my head against a wall. The latter, however, is fascinating.

That said, I've had my fair share of RP which was far too casual. I do not want to talk about clothing. I could care less what your character's favorite type of food is. Sitting around in the tavern staring at each other and saying "how was your day?" in between dozens and dozens of /me takes a drink of red is enough to drive me insane.

I suppose what it all really comes down to is depth. Doesn't matter if the Role Play is "quote" casual "unquote." Can you hold my interest, and can I return the favor and do the same for you? Are you able to feel what your character is feeling? Is the exchange full of some sort of feeling, or is it hollow? Hollowness is possible in both role play chatting and villainy. If your villain is evil "just cuz" and can shoot lasers from his/her eyes to smite everyone, then please, stop reading so many comic books. If, however, your villain has a speckled past of abuse, neglect, or just running with the wrong crowed and getting into trouble, it's far more interesting. Can I feel empathy for your villain? Does the villain's viewpoint about what they are doing make sense? Even better! Is the villain realistic? Most "evil" people do not truly see themselves as sadistic. Hitler didn't think he was bad, but was he? Hell yes. I doubt anyone could argue otherwise. Same with Stalin, pillaging vikings, the Huns, take your pick.

Also, vary up your role plays and break out of the "strictly evil" and "strictly good" catagories. The world is rarely truly painted in black and white. Why should your role play be any different? They say the winner writes the history of a conflict. But that doesn't mean that they were a group of morally perfect individuals. Give them flaws, skew their reasoning, twist their motivations. Corruption is a wonderful thing to role play, salvation from that corruption even more so. Marsuveus is a good example of this idea, for instance. Even though he was wicked and did not deserve grace, Teshia didn't give up on him ICly. She didn't run at him with swords waving and banners flying. And thus, the role play developed on a deeper level than hacking at one another to see who could sever more limbs.

At the conclusion of this ramble (which will probably be skipped over as tldr for most;)) Basically I'm just saying that any type of role play can be considered mature. Not just sitting around chattering by a fire. Both groups can have duds and successes. Pointing fingers and accusing one of being lesser or greater than the other really doesn't achieve much of anything. Learn, grow from each other, and develop things to see where they go. Don't block off an entire crowd just because they like a certain genre better than another. For one, there are too few people here to do that. Just go with the flow, and the back and forth will almost always result in an enjoyable exchange for either party, regardless of what it is they find most diverting.

One last statement:

So, I think we, and those in the kindergarten stage, could learn something from Mariana.

I'm flattered, but I'd like to point out that my actual role play experience doesn't exceed one year. There are dozens of role players who are far better than I, and who can mold a story that interests larger groups of people. We're all in kindergarten, and I'm just coming out of preschool The only way we experience growth is to be open-minded, and to learn new methods from each other.

An example of such an RPer would of course be Rigwyn. His work is very inclusive, and very interesting, without cliche. If you haven't looked into his thread, I'd highly recommend it:
http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=40558.msg456897;boardseen#new

[MishkaL1138]

Bla bla bla bla! Look at your posts, go back in time, look at other people's post complaining about RP. That's it, they're the same. EXACTLY the same. Every year the same stuff. Do you think it's going to change because you're rambling about it on a forum? Crass error.

Look, I play Mishka, that overpowered warlock fenki skilled in everything and whatnot. But kidnapping, torturing, etc... those RPs ended up getting boring to me. Sure, I do enjoy the occasional fight, but I'd rather Mishy slaps your char now because you were too cheeky or he pinched her butt, than just try to make him a puddle of blood, guts and other stuff you didn't know your char had. I have normal characters as well. I have a megalomaniac merchant menki, ruthless, Godfather-like all around. I have a fenki with very few friends -she pushed them away and now regrets not being able to get them back- and taking care of a little girl on her own, slowly building up a slight depression. My healer character just went to the Octarch's office to get divorced because her husband is missing so she can be with that cute menki whose arm she healed a while back. That gay, lonely menki now found someone to cuddle with.

Someone mentioned, be the change you want to see. Well, that's what I'm doing. I'm not talking about making PS a dull, boring copy of RL with anthro cats, winged lizards and talking rocks. But, hell, I would love to see "Friends" happening in PS, if you know what I mean. Or RP's like Rigwyn's. I think the world needs more people like Riggy-Wiggy.

[/me=MishkaL1138]declares himself the president of the newly created Rigwyn's Fanclub[/url]

[Aramara Meibi]

I've read all this thread. I like to read.

That being said, think of the game as an ongoing, live, multiplayer narrative (cuz you should). Any work of fiction worth a damn is going to have a balance of dialogue and action. Think of the author tracts in an Ayn Rand, Orson Scott Card, or Robert A. Heinlein novel. Atlas Shrugged weighs one metric ton and is mostly dialogue, real, intense dialogue, but there's plenty of action, romance and adventure peppered throughout to give it some plot. Heck, the heroine [Spoiler Alert!] even shoots some mook dead just cuz he's a spineless goon who doesn't share her sense of moral fortitude.

Heck, even the Bhagavad Gita is two dudes on a chariot overlooking a massive epic battlefield telling each other stories and coming to the conclusion that hey, I'm God, and you're God, and He is I and I am Him, and I am the Walrus, and it's ok that you're about to slaughter an army of your own brothers and uncles and cousins and teachers, because they're all God too and it's all just an integral thread in the cloth that is existence. Do we ever get to see the battle? Nerp.

This is my favorite scene ever from the show to end all shows.

(This is a close second.)

Now, there's PLENTY of gunfights, chases through the jungle, and pillars of black smoke ripping people to shreds in that show, but it's the dialogue (and the time travel) which makes it brilliant.

As a Xiosian priestess, let me tell you, it's all about balance.

[Illysia]

That's probably the best way to put it. PS has seriously lost its RP balance. It doesn't have the diversity it used to have.

[raline]

I like Illysia's "Character context check". I haven't been as systematic about it but I have ended up answering all the questions on it to myself. Sometimes not with simple answers. For example: my main character is not generally comfortable with the thought of being a snoop, but had enough of a grudge against Thorian Gronk over his overpriced cutlery to make an exception.

[Tessra]

Hmm, for the most part, I agree with a lot of what has been said here; be the RP you want to see, balance, etc.  I strongly agree with Illysia's character development.  Minor, casual RPs offer a chance to truly develop a character, beyond that of fights, brawls, kidnappings.  It's not cliche when the log-in screen tells us that our characters should change.  They should.  And it's not just fights and big events that change people.  Everyday life changes people.  Give yourself a chance to show it.