Weddings - what's the deal?

[Coneitic]

earl your going on ooc reasons why same sex is wrong. you have no idea what laanx and talad would want. so to try to assume will.... make an ass out of u and me =)


hell laanx loved that other V god, cant think of his name right now (been drinking) and now laanx is a dude... you think she/he still has feelings for the god? i think so.

wait.... and i dont know about you but thru the settings page it seems like laanx has a thing for talad.

[Earl_Listbard]

earl your going on ooc reasons why same sex is wrong. you have no idea what laanx and talad would want. so to try to assume will.... make an ass out of u and me =)


hell laanx loved that other V god, cant think of his name right now (been drinking) and now laanx is a dude... you think she/he still has feelings for the god? i think so.

wait.... and i dont know about you but thru the settings page it seems like laanx has a thing for talad.

Again, I apply ooc reasons, because theres not enough input ICly.... And Im not saying homosexual marriage is wrong, im saying and agreeing with the devs and mods, that it doesn't suit the era... Mind you, the deal with laanx and Vodul was completely different, no where does it state laanx had feelings for vodul, or the other way around, vodul just wanted a piece of laanx, nothing more such as feelings etc etc... Also keep in mind, laanx became a male after laanx went through a serious stage of loss and deppression.

laanx and talad were co-rulers, i'd expect that thing they had for each other to be respect, not love. Gods in all cultures are always very self centered, and by looking at the settings, yeah, these gods are too... talad and laanx, more or less are siblings, and rivals.

[DeadSomething]

I would allow same-sex-marriage ingame... it would have to be done at some kind of church or temple and i would also allow krans to have any marriage they want to, cause sex isnt limited to penetration, so it means even krans can have sex (oral, or anything you want to imagine...)
i wouldnt call a player having characters in different marriages, being in polygamy, cause each of the characters is in monogamy...
here all that counts is the ingame-character/in-character...
same-sex-marriage might be hated by some factions, but their characters might handle that their own way...
maybe a priest of talad would hunt those, but others would protect them...
you'll never know...
at least it shouldnt be deactivated, cause that would limit the Roleplay.
a marriage doesnt need to be something done in public...
for a marriage you only need a priest and a partner...

its the first time i'm worried if a female char is played by a female player
i only play female chars in singleplayer RPG-games...
and different from my own taste, my chars like fluffy things or pink stuff, or just anything i wouldnt like...
you need to keep that in mind when playing, that its not really you...

[Ravenguard]

you need to keep that in mind when playing, that its not really you...

So they DON'T really love me?!
NOOOOOOOOOOOO 

If players can integrate homosexuality as far as the facts of the game go, go for it.  It doesn't matter if the people accept it, only if the Gods do.  In fact, it might things more interesting (though potentially dangerous) if some Gods did and others didn't.

Heck, we've already got racists, sexists, and the like, if we can fit homophobics in there, man, that could make for some crazy days.

[DeadSomething]

why shouldnt PS be as complicated as the reality is 

[Marqsaynt]

Here's the way I see it:

1. Society loosely based on medieval world would mean no sanctioned gay weddings.

2. This doesn't mean there aren't necessarily homosexual characters. (What is someone going to do, go around proclaiming there are "no homosexuals in Iran?" ...uh, I mean Yliakum. )

Like it or not the realm run by the Octarchy, while certainly more "open" than what I'd suspect most governments were back in medieval times is not some "progressive" modern society. Leaving personal politics, RL religion, and people's personal opinions out of the discussion, it seems to me that those are just the facts.

[Drakon]

I just love people forcing their own opinions on others. And to take it to such extremely as a supposedly RP game....hilarious. I am sitting here laughing my back side off over this. My opinion.....Its not me that climbs into bed with them so why should it matter to me. As to comparing made up gods to a RL deity....Hilarious again.

Its a game....supposedly. Its also supposedly for entertainment and fun. So if two same sex MAKE BELIEVE characters wish to seek each other let them. Its not My place nor Yours to condemn them, unless You are proclaiming to be the true judge in game or otherwise.

Personally, I find characters with names that carry drug connotations much more offensive.

[Earl_Listbard]

Thats fine, dude... But this is a medieval time period. I don't understand how people don't get it that its none of our ideas, its the fact that this is a medieval setting. Yliakum is held tightly by the religions, and I doubt any of them support homosexuality. There is not as much liberty as one may think, this isn't our ooc feelings, this is the Octarch law.

Our characters live under a powerful system, and they control what is the law, and what isn't. Apparently homosexual marriage is not legal.

If you want a gay character thats fine, i've seen them, and I have actually played them, but marriage is one thing they can't do. Heaven forbid you can't have the little thing in your description saying you're married to such and such.

Nuff said, get over it.

[Drakon]

And I love the fact that none of Us have undiluted access to records of the time. Yet, there are precedents showing "same sex" marriages in Earths history. Now some would like to sit back and say " Oh no...Thats fake. It never happened" and some would say " See. There is Our right as established in history" What I am saying is that if a person cannot realize that an RP same sex couple is truly no threat to their customs or beliefs...it would probably be best not to play a game where your character is encouraged and required to kil by sword axe and magic.

 Now if We wish to claim relious reasons for not allowing same sex marriages, we must also ban magic for the same reasons.

If We wish to claim historical reasons, fine there as well. Someone point out a case in hisrtory where a fighter, mage or otherwise has called forth an armor of rock to protect them during battle. Our RL Religious beliefs should have no bearing on whats in game. Period. Our history, possibly a small amount of matching would occur, but not necessarily in any one area such as religion which would by virue be different in Yliakum...or so I have been told.

 The settings of the game, have introduced a certain element....a God that undergos a gender change. For whatever reason. There is not a whole lot of support for this happening in the religions of this world, yet in todays world, it happens quite frequently.
So please, someone who knows just what is really going on in the world of Yliakum make this issue clear.
Also Ostarchal law is not made by the people as I can see. I have seen no voting areas, nor anyone even asking what the peasant think should be anywhere in game. Have You? And lastly, I would appreciate a guiding post as to what book and where I may find this supposed law In Game, since some know vastly more than any and everyone else in a game that is very thin on background or anything to make such judgements upon. Please, PM Me if You wish to debate this further and feel free to cuss me as much as You wish there.

[Earl_Listbard]

I think you're missing the point


Homosexuality in Yliakum is not a big deal to the Octarch, however, they do not promote it, thus they wont legally sign documents that unite a male and a male, or a female, and a female, in any sort of marriage arrangement.


Despite this, its tolerated. Which in most primitive RL communities, was not the case, and punishment was harsh.

Yes I know there are 'a few cases' Too be honest there are 'a few cases' to everything; so thats not saying much.

I don't understand why people get bent out of shape because their gay character can't get married, this isn't 2007 Earth, this is a primitive society which is governed by strict law, and where religion molds people's ideas. The simple idea of many modern day thinking realisticly would never cross our character's minds.

So, the point, Again: Ochtarch.... Promote.... they do not...


And... Sign-age... of legal documents.... they will not...


Gay marriage would be ooc.

[Drakon]

That argument again draws reference to a world such as Earths development. The world of Yliakum is not the original world of these peoples. And as such, there is plenty of room to acknowledge that "same sex" or "gay" marriages could have been socially and even religiously acceptably on a species homeworld. However, there are exceptions and they are the two species created by Laanx and Talad.Even then though, we know that through the merging of cultures, new ideas are welcomed and accepted whereas even some old and highly honored beliefs are slowly worn down to myth and legend. For the argument of cultural development on earth to be viable as a comparison, species must have been translocated to this planet by a god or gods bringing with them their own beliefs and cultures. As every school child has been taught....no such occurrence has happened.
 We must be able to sit back and bring these things to the fore when evaluating just what we "think" should be happening and "the law" in Yliakum. So before someone says "Gay marriages should be banned", maybe they should think about all the other cultures before they were brought to Yliakum and what they MAY have been like.
 So far though, I have not seen a sign of this thought process being shown. Instead, just age old religious beliefs being pressed into service in a supposed game. Is this a game or an online re-enactment attempt?
If its a game, the the point is valid. If its a re-enactment....then haul out the swords and ropes to encourage conversions....those magic users are evil and must die!

 

[Earl_Listbard]

That argument again draws reference to a world such as Earths development. The world of Yliakum is not the original world of these peoples. And as such, there is plenty of room to acknowledge that "same sex" or "gay" marriages could have been socially and even religiously acceptably on a species homeworld. However, there are exceptions and they are the two species created by Laanx and Talad.Even then though, we know that through the merging of cultures, new ideas are welcomed and accepted whereas even some old and highly honored beliefs are slowly worn down to myth and legend. For the argument of cultural development on earth to be viable as a comparison, species must have been translocated to this planet by a god or gods bringing with them their own beliefs and cultures. As every school child has been taught....no such occurrence has happened.
 We must be able to sit back and bring these things to the fore when evaluating just what we "think" should be happening and "the law" in Yliakum. So before someone says "Gay marriages should be banned", maybe they should think about all the other cultures before they were brought to Yliakum and what they MAY have been like.
 So far though, I have not seen a sign of this thought process being shown. Instead, just age old religious beliefs being pressed into service in a supposed game. Is this a game or an online re-enactment attempt?
If its a game, the the point is valid. If its a re-enactment....then haul out the swords and ropes to encourage conversions....those magic users are evil and must die!

 

Im not going to even read that

Look you make some good points man, but you HAVE to understand that the law is the law, and all these 'what ifs' and 'objections' mean nothing as they never happened like that. The game was made this way, arguing it doesn't change The reality of Yliakum... The Octarchs wont sign the legal documents, you can have a 'partner' in planeshift, but you can't get a legal license.

If this annoys you so why don't you make a character who fights for marriage rights or something for homosexuals. But don't make it an ooc matter, or try to say that we are against gay marriage. Its the game law, the government doesn't approve.

And it has nothing to do with refferances to reality, it has everything to do with the facts in Yliakum.


Accept it, leave your liberal ideas out of character. Because Yliakum is not an extreme liberal society by a long shot.

Yliakum citizens should just be happy they have freedom of religion.

[Drakon]

And where did You find this "law"? Here on the forums? Or has it been recorded in Yliakum someplace? Some tomes of laws perhaps? Some official decree somewhere? How about any records of marriage licenses? Oh yes. They don't exist. And so far as I have seen, neither does this supposed law.

And thanks for admitting that You would not consider a different point of view. It shows my point that things are being brought into the RP to suit some peoples need for their values to be reflected and everone else is to be ignored.

I see a lot of " Its the Law" statements, but so far no thing showing this law or its location or anything. All I see is someone saying that the rulers of the realm of Yliakum shares their beliefs and believe as they do. Where is this law of which You speak? Where? Where?

And Oh Master, please forgive me for my Liberal ways.....Hah! Nothing liberal in acknowledging that if a species developed on a different planet, they would develop differently in many ways from this species.Of course, wo could all still believe the world is flat huh? Now I wonder what happened to that idea....Oh yeah. Some liberal fool questioned it and was later proven right.

[Under the moon]

"Yliakum citizens should just be happy they have freedom of religion."

No, they don't. You have a choice of the four known religions to worship openly. Worshipping any other god in the open, or being found to be doing so in secret, is (would be if allowed by game mechanics) punishable by severe law.

Yliakum is not happy hippy land. You have laws, and you do not question them in the open. Complain [on the forum] all you want, but if a law is suddenly handed down that gays can not marry (or can), or all women have to wear masks in public, or be punished, that -is- what will happen. Yliakum is not meant to be a perfect world. Citizens do not get a vote.

[neko kyouran]

And where did You find this "law"? Here on the forums? Or has it been recorded in Yliakum someplace? Some tomes of laws perhaps? Some official decree somewhere? How about any records of marriage licenses? Oh yes. They don't exist. And so far as I have seen, neither does this supposed law.

Wrong.  read the entire thread.  I already stated it on the opening page.  would have saved you a night of reviving a thread just to post the same conversation the first time it was being discussed.

no gay marriages. end of discussion.