Combat Look...

[Harwen]

I was just wondering of all this talk of combat and magic....that the combat is real time right.....

Well, I wonder how the animations will look when you strike, and how will they handle different directions and targeting? If there is to be any at all....

And ranged weapons....

My main concern is how the animations will be, I would hate it if my character flapped his arms like a retarted windmill everytime I attacked forward....

Another concern is the targeting, if there is no auto-facing at least, then combat would be a little clunky, this is from expirience in other games....particularly bad case is Freeworld Online, where the character would slowly accelerate in the given direction you pressed a button to then face the monster that ran past you... very clunky-inaccurate system in my opinion. Lack of targeting made combat very ugly in respect to the automous and almost unnatural way the characters were animated as they struck or swung their horribly inadequate weapons.

And again, another is the way you\'d control the real-time attacking....FWO and many other games all had clunky-hard to control attacking systems with poor-reaction times. This is why few games have a real-time battle system.

This isn\'t my last concern, so sit down. Monster\'s range, I attack a monster with my halbred, I run a distance away, I come back from behind and attack it again, and then run away, only to come back. Will my target be able to hit me with its short, pudgy arms, if I\'m far away from it, because alot of games have this bug as part of the game, that monsters can attack you at almost any range, and through obstacles even. ( this is a more of a status on the combat bugs than a concern)

last, is the ranged combat, I\'m curious to know how this will work, will the projectiles travel in an arc, or some ridiculous straight line?

Err...wondering if I\'m asking for too many answers before we get to find out ourselves.... perhaps one answer to this might be nice, but rumors are much more fun Yes, that\'s it, give me your rumors!

[Black_rose]

hey wait, what if there was an option between choosing real time combat and automated combat?

[Danny]

the animations shouldnt be to much of a concern i mean as you can see from the version you can play the animations are very very good and im sure they wont skip on something as important as combat.. and id think that auto attack/turn should be left to the npcs because id see it as a cheat.. it would make it to easy there has to be some challenge and it also adds to the fun...

Many thanks,
   Danny

[Harwen]

Well, personally the animations aren\'t very good, the walks are all sorta jerky and uncharacteristic, which is okay, its a tech demo, no big deal I was kinda hoping I\'d get an answer from a dev or someone who\'s seen an animation or two.

But no, this had to be moved to the wish list, where no one will care, great.

[Detan]

So negative ^_^ well I\'m sure the animations will be at least average in this second version and good in the next after that and great in the 4th. And don\'t even mentionc ombat possibilities cause it is obviously already decided on what combat is and it won\'t be changed anytime soon but prehaps tweaked to compensate for other new features that would be implemented at later dates (if).

[FESFES]

if u made a choice between realtime and turn taking then most people would go realtime because its faster and if you where in a party you may have to wait for other players

i like the idea too i personally thought about it my self but when i thought about it more and more i saw it hust wouldnt work

and the animations dont matter to me yet as long as they get better with later realeses

[Danny]

you guys are just so positive.. if you dont like it download a CAD program and make your own lol... its what ive done.. but im only using it to make my future web site..

Many thanks,
   Danny

[Harwen]

First of all, who the heck said anything about choosing between real-time and automated???

Please read my post...slowly.

Second, can\'t hide the truth about the animations.

Third, I know the combat is already there, and I made a point not to talk about combat possibilities, so thats why I\'m peeved that my post was moved. I was asking to discuss the fleshing out of the combat so it doesn\'t look klunky.  

Finally,

you guys are just so positive.. if you dont like it download a CAD program and make your own lol... its what ive done.. but im only using it to make my future web site..

You don\'t make animations for game models in a CAD program, you use something like 3DS MAX or Maya or Blender. CAD is computer aided design, which then makes blue prints and/or interfaces with machinery to build parts.


Ugh, this is why I leave the posting to ppl with patience, I\'m going to stop caring about this post before somone will actually read my post and post something worth while.  

[Gothard]

G\'day. I dont know anything about possible previous posts on this matter. Excuse me if you think that i should have seen these posts. I dont have very much time surfing around the forum.

      So. I wanted to propose you make a good and realistic development of weapon and armor damage, based on interaction of various materials and physical model of movement. For me as a \"hardcore\" knight in other RPGames it would be a really tasty feature! I think many others will approve it too.
      Else I want to ask you not to make much numeric stats of anything. But let all processing be done more in background, than in the numbers on screen.
     And excuse me for my spelling errors, I\'m from Latvia (NE Europe).

THX in advance.

[Harwen]

Um, Gothard, do you even know what my post is about? I mean, not that I care, since this happense every single time I post something, without fail as to yet, but I\'m not talking about anything you\'ve said in your post.

I mean, what and why are proposing to me exactly, please take the time to read my post, or post your questions if its hard for you to understand.


In short:  ?(  ;(    X(  ?(

[Danny]

Originally posted by whats his face (i knew i shouldnt have edited this line lol i have a bad memory for names)
 For me as a \"hardcore\" knight in other RPGames it would be a really tasty feature! I think many others will approve it too.

This is PS where talking about here.. Knights and clean white shiney horses and clean blonde hair.. do not exsist thats why you shouldnt compare this game with others.. and taking ideas where such things do exsist and wanting them in ps because it would just be wrong.. if you have actually played the game which i dought then maybe you could adapt that idea and base it on the game? because i have no idea what your on about..

Back on topic.. I think that to get a good combat look will be difecault because you have all these different fighting moves, angels and on top of that magic spells the look of the weapons.. and gliches are bound to apear... for example the so called game that cant be named.. has a single set of amour..  but yet if you were to fight behind something you apear infront of it and the monster apears behind.. such glitches really do reck the game.. so maybe if we could keep the look of the amour and weapons almost the same.. on the outside but in your inventory they look different.. unless you can do what PT have done. where you have a huge range of weapons and no such glitches.. but it might be hard..

Many thanks,
   Danny

[Harwen]

Yes, Danny, thank you for steering the thread back on topic.

Yes, you\'re right, problem with PT is that yes, huge amount of weapons, but its all pre-set animations, and its automated, turn-based combat.  This lets them take liberties in the animations, conentrating on one monotonus motion to flesh out.

With what I was hoping for, well, eventually would be something I call circumstancial animation...er, I\'m sure there\'s an industry term for it somewhere.  An uber-complicated example of what I\'m talking about is Prince of Persia: Sands of Time. Where the he comptuer decides what animations to preform depending on the different factors, direction of analog stick, other buttons pressed, wall present on a certain side, monster present on certain side, and many, many more...

What I was thinking is to add (over the time of game development) animations depending on the situation the chraracter is in. Things like position of monster, with direction you\'re facing and equipment type you are carrying. Since combat will be realtime, this could make it less clunky and boring. Also, the ability for the player to dodge attacks from a monster would be nice if it could me animated, like the character jumping, or feinting. Again, I\'m afraid I ask too much.

[ESB]

What your asking for is the most ideal game to ever be created and no it\'s not to much to ask. Real Time Combat is going to be difficult for them, especially on the animation. In order to have true RTC the character models will need to have true mass, anything less would be your examples of other games and their animations. For example an ideal RTC would have such controls like what you have mentioned:

Arrow Keys :

*Left = side step left
*Right = side step right
*Up = forward
*Down = back

Double Tap Arrow Keys :

*X2 Left = short jump left
*x2 Right = short jump right
*x2 Up = leap forward
*x2 Down = short jump back

Mouse and Buttons :

*Mouse Movement = Mouse Look (with target in center)
*Left Button = Strike with weapon, Slash
*Right Button = Block with shield or Strike with  Secondary weapon, Slash
*X2 Left Button = Strike with weapon, Jab
*X2 Right Button = Strike with Secondary Weapon, Jab


Mouse Combos :

*Mouse Look to target opponent weapon (as it\'s coming in for attack) + Left Click = Parry (your weapon attacks opponents weapon.
*Mouse Look to target opponent weapon (as it\'s coming in for attack) + Right Click = Block with shield or Parry with secondary weapon
*Mouse Look to target opponent body segment + Left Click = Slash at that Body Segment with main weapon
*Mouse Look to target opponent body segment + Right Click = Slash at that Body Segment with secondary weapon or Bash with Shield
*Mouse Look to target opponent body segment + X2 Left Click = Jab at that Body Segment with main weapon
*Mouse Look to target opponent body segment + X2 Right Click = Jab at that Body Segment with secondary weapon

Mouse and Arrow Key Combo\'s :

*Mouse Look to target opponent weapon + Left Click + X2 left arrow key = Parry but displacing you on the opponents right flank ( exposing the opponents stance and allowing a follow up with a ...)
*Mouse Look to target opponent bodypart + X2 Left Click + X2 Up Key = Forward Jump Thrust into targeted bodypart and knockdown (possable)

or

*Mouse Look to target opponent bodypart + Left Click + X2 Up Key = Forward Jump Overhead Slash into targeted body segment

ok ...  stopping with this, going to take forever to get all the combo\'s down. Though this was strickly an example.

In other words the combo\'s we see in console fighting games for the PC. Aye it looks confusing but like the console system of combat it becomes second nature over time.
The example above eliminates the warping effect you get from free form PvP like in Everquest. By fusing the character to the ground and using the keys/mouse to displace the character similar to Diablo Attack Mode. Allowing packet information to update quicker, especially if encumbrance delays movement due to weight (equipment, armor, weapon type, etc.)
True Mass, targeting specific body segments which could in turn be protected with additional True Mass, Armor. Guess I\'m reaching the point of asking to much as well.

But the animations will need to be precise as to maintain true mass on the character models for targeting or what ever they have planned. If predetermining the characters stance is implimented then you do not have RTC other than hitting buttons or clicking like madd similar to Diablo in the mode you chosen. Animation will need to be a concern and I can see your point if they plan to RTC this game with poor animation. Though this is Alpha and not yet in Balance Beta but always nice to let them know we\'re watching...always watching >=)

ESB