Author Topic: sainthood  (Read 1849 times)

JanetReno

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« Reply #30 on: November 07, 2004, 09:32:37 pm »
Yes, I am aware some of these ideas have been posted. Flame me if you want. If you think a good/evil system has been beaten to death, then don\'t read this.

I don\'t think a saint title is a good system, atleast not for catching hackers. I think it\'s a given that everyone should do it regardless of a reward.

However, I do think an evil/good system is not only a good idea, but a vital componant of a true role playing game. While it is not necessary for a game\'s success, or popularity, nothing stops a character, from an evil guild, completeing a quest that no evil characture would do(i.e. saving a girl from a band of theivs).

Yes, you could argue that they could be doing it for the reward, but what if they continually do \"good deeds?\" I don\'t know your previous roleplaying experience, but to me that is bad role playing.

You could also say that it shouldn\'t be programmed in, that its strictly a roleplaying thing (i.e. left up to the community to spread around). You may consider your friends and yourself good RPers, but this is a free game. That means it will reach out  and \"grab in\" a lot of people who have little, or no role playing experience.  You know the type, the pople who want to hack-and-slash their way to the top with the best uber items. They wont want to RP, much less spread around rumors of who is good and bad. A system of alignment will help them think about their actions.

It\'s also common sense to me that no good character would be using a godly +15 sword of blood, famous for slaying a thousand virgins. Like wise, no evil characture would use a godly hammer of justice crafted by the gods to destroy evil.

I also don\'t think an evil guild would want a character who continually does good quests. No one says \"did you hear about ?\" \"yeah, I heard one of their members saved a little girl and rid a town of bandits the the other day.\"

I would love  to see a game where a good/evil system is applied effectivly.  For me, this would be done by haveing 3 types of quests. Good, neutral, and evil.  Good would add to your rating, neutral would have no effect, and evil would subtract.  Failed pick pocketing attemps could also give small deductions.

Someone brought up the idea of merchants travelling between towns in a previous thread, robbing them would be a perfect \"quest\" for an evil guild (perhaps the time of the jounrey would be provided by various NPCs). If a merchant is robbed, prices in the receiving town could be raised till the next one arrives. That would give a good guild an insentive to protect them.

If PKing is later introduced, the person that dies would receive the option of ignoring it, or effecting his status. If the later option is choosen, a good killing an evil character would greatly add points, an evil killing a good would greatly subtract points, a good killing another good would subtract a lot, and any other kills would subtract a few points.

To make it a goal to acceive either a good, or bad, rating: having either extreme would slightly alter your stats (i.e. an evil person would have +5 to str and +10% to dark way damage given and +10% damage taken from the crystal way). Maybe you could have different levels of evil and good, the more negative your points the higher your evil ranking. Being a higher level of could increase the effect on stats.

summary:

+I belive each character should have a good/evil rating. This would be hidden from public view, unless the player decides to make it public(you could say a character had symbols or tattoes, ect).

+Being in the same party with a character for X ammount of time would also reveal thier alignment.  

+Also having a certin level in magic abilities would allow you to sense a person\'s alignment, a higher magic would give you a more percise estimate.

+I belive a few of the \"godly\" items should have a requierment of a certin ammount of good or evil points. See above for explination.

+I belive a guild\'s alignment should be the average of all the guild member\'s ratings.

+I feel that there should be small areas of the world where only evil, or good, characters could go (i.e. holy cities, or a thieves camp).

+Each race should have a different starting number for alignment. I.e. diabolo should be close to evil.

+If wanted, you could tie in the saint system so the top 5 characters in both extremes get titles infront of their name. You could also have the 10 top charactures/guilds displayed on the website as sort of a hall of fame.

+if you have a high evil rating, the town guards would try to arrest you. If they arrest you, your rating gets dropped a level and you lose a certin ammount of money.

+to tie it into planeshift you could say one side is Laanx and the other is Talad

Seytra

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« Reply #31 on: November 08, 2004, 12:05:04 am »
I\'m going to only answer to the points that I object to, so take the absence of a point as (preliminary) endorsement.

Quote
Originally posted by JanetReno
To make it a goal to acceive either a good, or bad, rating: having either extreme would slightly alter your stats (i.e. an evil person would have +5 to str and +10% to dark way damage given and +10% damage taken from the crystal way). Maybe you could have different levels of evil and good, the more negative your points the higher your evil ranking. Being a higher level of could increase the effect on stats.

NO. What your alignment is should never have any effect on your stats. It\'s unrealistic and would only serve to generate a new kind of \"powerlevelling\", if you can call it that. It serves no RP purpose whatsoever IMO. Why would you reward the extremes? What about the \"extremely neutral\"?
Quote
Originally posted by JanetReno
+Being in the same party with a character for X ammount of time would also reveal thier alignment.  

I don\'t think so, If anything, their deeds would show it. This means that if they do evil / good deeds while in a party, the party will start to notice. You could base this on the number of alignment points that are gained while in this particular party (probably even per party member) and create some \"probability rating\" for it (i.e., \"likely good\" or \"most likely evil\").
Quote
Originally posted by JanetReno
+I belive a few of the \"godly\" items should have a requierment of a certin ammount of good or evil points. See above for explination.

Still, this is something that must not be enforced. There might well be instances in which this would be done, like when infiltrating some guild or whatever. Also in times of extreme need. And also an evil char might use this \"hammer of eternal good\" to do the evil deeds in order to stain it or take away the \"goodness\" of it. If anything, it might add to alignment points, but even this I don\'t actually advocate. This is something I\'d like to leave to RP. Maybe they\'d get a message like \"this item feels bad\" or something like this.
Quote
Originally posted by JanetReno
+I feel that there should be small areas of the world where only evil, or good, characters could go (i.e. holy cities, or a thieves camp).

Cool, so the evil spy will not be able to spy in the temple? Or the good party will be unable to enter the hideout of the evil ppl. just because they\'re too good?
Quote
Originally posted by JanetReno
+If wanted, you could tie in the saint system so the top 5 characters in both extremes get titles infront of their name. You could also have the 10 top charactures/guilds displayed on the website as sort of a hall of fame.

This would be a pretty weak system to justify a title like \"saint\" or \"fiend\". After all, saint / fiendhood should not be attainable by simply doing good RP (as this should be standard). Also, what about the 1000 other ppl. who also have gotten maximum ratings in either extreme?
Quote
Originally posted by JanetReno
+if you have a high evil rating, the town guards would try to arrest you. If they arrest you, your rating gets dropped a level and you lose a certin ammount of money.

Only if they knew (i.e., you told them or are \"public enemy\" or wear signs to show it).
Quote
Originally posted by JanetReno
+to tie it into planeshift you could say one side is Laanx and the other is Talad

You know that there are atheistic races in PS? Also, you can\'t actually say that Laanx is evil and Talad is good AFAICS.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2004, 12:08:47 am by Seytra »

Adeli

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« Reply #32 on: November 08, 2004, 09:01:59 am »
I was thinking about my idea, and thought of an amendment...

Instead of it being coded, it is completely RP, but, if a GM or Dev hears many tales of greatness or evil, they make it known, and proclaim the person either a saint or a fiend.
This has no holes RP wise, because as the planeshift site says, devs will have speical characters with high social standing, as this stands, any announcement they make public would be highly known.
Plus, word of mouth has to work for the GM or Dev to hear of the tales, so it is highly realistic.
Also, once a person has gained a title, they lose it upon going to the Death Realm, could make some fluff like \"All your deeds have been forgotten.\"
This means, people with titles, become bounties! I really like the idea of bounty hunters, and hope they are included.
Obviously, RP wise, only an evil or neutral player would hunt down a saint, and only a good or neutral would hunt down a fiend.
This system would require people RP properly, which I understand is a must anyway.

Seytra, you covered most of what I thought. Though I don\'t like the idea of alignment points, it should be RP I decided, while still having a title... My new thoughts allow this.

As for your alignment ideas Sesmi, I think while changing alignment is necessary, it should be RP.
I don\'t like the idea of growing horns, or gaining a halo or whatever good get.
OT: Is Fable good?

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Seytra

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« Reply #33 on: November 08, 2004, 09:27:24 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Adeli
Also, once a person has gained a title, they lose it upon going to the Death Realm, could make some fluff like \"All your deeds have been forgotten.\"
This means, people with titles, become bounties! I really like the idea of bounty hunters, and hope they are included.

I don\'t actually like bounty hunting, but anyway, I don\'t see what would make them a bounty anyway? I mean, the title isn\'t going to be (inverted and) transferred to you if you kill them, so you wouldn\'t actually receive a bounty? Well, you could brag about it, I suppose.
Quote
Originally posted by Adeli
Seytra, you covered most of what I thought. Though I don\'t like the idea of alignment points, it should be RP I decided, while still having a title... My new thoughts allow this.

I\'m not sure about the alignment points. On one hand, it would be ideal to have complete freedom, but OTOH it doesn\'t depend on the players if you have some formal system. And it is my experience that in any large community, it is bad to solely rely on the community, especially if the community members change frequently.
Quote
Originally posted by Adeli
As for your alignment ideas Sesmi, I think while changing alignment is necessary, it should be RP.
I don\'t like the idea of growing horns, or gaining a halo or whatever good get.

The greatest danger IMO is misclassification of deeds. It happened to me in singleplayer games that I thought what I was about to do was one alignment, but it ended up being another one.
This seems to happen if the classification of the deed is being based on a belief system or other local convention which isn\'t actually universal. A prime example is of course euthanasia.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2004, 09:28:31 pm by Seytra »

sesmi

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« Reply #34 on: November 08, 2004, 09:46:41 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Adeli

OT: Is Fable good?

-Tyralus Shadowdancer
 yes very!!!!!!!  and about your ealyer rp comment \"only good or netreal players will kill a evil player\"   can\'t a evil player kill a rival evil player?