?Pen & Paper <-> Mouse & Screen?

[Merdarion]

Originally posted by Cohdra
Pencil and Paper:

Any DM on here could probably tell you how difficult it can be to come up with enough material for 1 or 2 games a week; Not an easy task, especially for a good DM.

Yea, It\'s hard enough to keep your players busy in a complete and fully detailed world (like greyhawk, the forgotten realms or Aventuria), but it\'s nearly impossible to do that in a world you\'re developing (I began to make my own campaign setting but I got screwed up because: 1. My cartographic skills are bad 2. As I said above the player\'s ran beserk)

[Cohdra]

Originally posted by Merdarion

Originally posted by Cohdra
Pencil and Paper:

Any DM on here could probably tell you how difficult it can be to come up with enough material for 1 or 2 games a week; Not an easy task, especially for a good DM.

Yea, It\'s hard enough to keep your players busy in a complete and fully detailed world (like greyhawk, the forgotten realms or Aventuria), but it\'s nearly impossible to do that in a world you\'re developing (I began to make my own campaign setting but I got screwed up because: 1. My cartographic skills are bad 2. As I said above the player\'s ran beserk)

Yep, it\'s really difficult when you have to do all the design by yourself; Mike and I create/design everything together, and we also co-DM sometimes; it\'s more difficult for the players to push around 2 DM\'s...hehe
I have to often run in games that I wrote, so everything for my character is determined by die roll...but I still have fun. We have a bonus point system where points are awarded for roleplaying...we are BIG into the roleplaying aspect, and character development.

We also only allowed players that were 18 or older to play; I know this isn\'t always possible, as many gamers are younger that this, but the older players (usually, but not always..ahem...) are more mature.  It is getting more difficult to find players...people are just too busy to play.

Mike often runs solo games for me; which is cool Sometimes I run solo games for him as well

[Merdarion]

Yeah, I had some good experiences while being DM for older players (It sounds weird, but 17-18ers listen more careful (and play more careful), than the 14ers (I have to shame that I\'m fourteen),

[Cohdra]

Originally posted by Merdarion
Yeah, I had some good experiences while being DM for older players (It sounds weird, but 17-18ers listen more careful (and play more careful), than the 14ers (I have to shame that I\'m fourteen),

The worst player types are the \"rules Hounds\", and the \"The Chaotic Eveywheres\".   We always contained the rules hounds....drive a DM nuts.   Then the Chaotic everywheres.  They always have to be involved in everything, whether they are on a different continent, while they are dead, etc......they drive the players nuts for sure.  We always keep them real busy...like one encounter after another...hehe...they are  much more pliable when they only have 1-4 hp\'s left hehe

[Meketh]

Well, coming from PnP and gm?ing/playing those for about 15 years now, I think they are superior in flexibilty, make it easier to enhance your own creativity and can have a very social effect (a bit of camp fire romantics/ telling stories for others).

Virtual rPG?s often tend to lack the \"R\" part, but have the advantage of uniting people from different cultural backgrounds and by this can also create a strong gaming experience (once in a while).

It seems to be like one of the pre-posters said: both have there strengths and weaknesses.

Meketh

[Merdarion]

Most of the \"Virtual RPGs\" are just hacknslash (Diablo, Dungeon Siege, Sacred, Diablo, Diablo and did I mention \'Diablo\' ...), very few have just a little Role playing (Morrowind, NWN) but also are mainly HnS (I didn\'t like the Morrowind\'s Dialogue system).

[Entamis]

If we\'re talking about single player RPGs, there are some that aren\'t hack&slash. I think Fallout, Torment and Arcanum are good examples.

[Merdarion]

I did never get the chance of playing these, but I think KOTOR has very much Roleplaying (Also much H&S, but more RP)

[Adeli]

Baldur\'s Gate, Baldur\'s Gate 2 and Neverwinter Nights, also add Planescape: Torment to that, are very RP based, sure they follow a set story, but you couldn\'t finish it without them. The fact is you can pick your path to obtain your goals.
As already stated, Fallout and Fallout 2 are brillliant examples.
Knights of the Old Republic is very, very RP based, there are many battles, but what RPG doesn\'t have enemies to defeat. Every action you make impacts the game. I am currently playing as a potential Sith Lord, after becoming a master of the Light.
Morrowind was RP gone wrong, it was not as good as it could have been.
Pools of Radiance, The Temple of Elemental Evil, these are very RPG.
There are many that simulate P&P RPGs quite well, but lack the freedom.

Dungeon Siege disappointed me and my $85.

Edit: I eagerly await KOTOR 2.

[Umgssda]

I love Morrowind. It gives you a huge freedom. I just think that many people are lost when not guided around. Morrowind is a game that requires you to set your own goals.

I recently tried Baldur\'s Gate 2 and I just had to abort it around second chapter. It\'s just plain boring. It could have been good without that fighting. It\'s probably this AD&D rule system that messes it up. After some time it is all about having the right spell prepared against the right enemy. There isn\'t much of character interaction going on in all those dungeons.

One game that is really brilliant in that aspect is Gothic and Gothic 2, but that suffers from its action orientation, later on there it is mainly about hacking down anything that moves.
But the first chapter is a magnificient experience.
Exspecially the settlements you can explore, (about three each game) are very worthwile with all the NPCs following their own live, working, eating, sleeping or doing other stuff. That makes playing a thief character a very worthwile experience. The whole place gives a very alive and realistic feeling.

[Merdarion]

Originally posted by Umgssda
I love Morrowind. It gives you a huge freedom. I just think that many people are lost when not guided around. Morrowind is a game that requires you to set your own goals.

I recently tried Baldur\'s Gate 2 and I just had to abort it around second chapter. It\'s just plain boring. It could have been good without that fighting. It\'s probably this AD&D rule system that messes it up. After some time it is all about having the right spell prepared against the right enemy. There isn\'t much of character interaction going on in all those dungeons.

One game that is really brilliant in that aspect is Gothic and Gothic 2, but that suffers from its action orientation, later on there it is mainly about hacking down anything that moves.
But the first chapter is a magnificient experience.
Exspecially the settlements you can explore, (about three each game) are very worthwile with all the NPCs following their own live, working, eating, sleeping or doing other stuff. That makes playing a thief character a very worthwile experience. The whole place gives a very alive and realistic feeling.

First I played trough the main Story, then I tried vampire way, then I hunted for treasures and then I tried some psychopatic murder. Mods made it much better but it had never much of RP, just because the static NPCs and the whole static World.
In Kotor I tried to make some kind of Outsider. On light side but with his own meaning of good & evil, ==Pretty much fun

[Umgssda]

The static world really is a problem in Morrowind, it leaves a lot to the fantasy of the player to imagine.

That is why I mentioned Gothic, it is a big contrast. I can only suggest to try it. Regretfully the Gothic 2 demo is only available in german, but Gothic 1 should be quite a bargain by now and isn\'t much a difference from the gameplay point of view. You\'ll just need some more patience with its controls.

[Merdarion]

Yeah, I realy forgot Gothic. I played both Gothic 1 and Gothic 2 with \"Nacht des Raben\" (I actually come from Austria) expansion. Very good! I really liked it, because it was not only much RP but the World was changing. When you started in Gothic 1, you came in the \"Minental\" (Don\'t know what it is in English), where the three Settlements had some strive. You ended up, in it, while some kind of civil war comes up, the orcs grow stronger, and the swamp-camp collapsed.

[Adeli]

I remember seeing them play Gothic 2 on X-Play on TechTV... it was in English. Why do you say it\'s only available in German?

02-28-04: US release of gothic II

Surely you can find a non German release?

Umgssda, did you completely avoid the cities? That is where the interaction takes place... not the dungeons. All the locations around the world. There are not many NPCs to strike up a conversation with in a dungeon. I think you missed the whole point of BG2.
As for that slight on the AD&D rule system? I have no idea what you are talking about. Since when does the rule system from AD&D stuff a game up?
I challenge you to find a computer RPG where you don\'t fight, and it is interesting.

[Umgssda]

Your reading is inaccurate.
I did say Gotich 2 demo ist only available in german. The game is available in english, the addon again isn\'t.

As for BG2 I didn\'t said it was boring for fighting in general, but for that fighting. It all comes down to have the right spells prepared for the opponents and the fitting weapons ready. The immunities of the opponents result in the necessity to micromanage the fight, and since there are heaps of those fights this takes up a major part of the game, in my eyes about 70%.
The AD&D system contributes to this, and has some real problems: class system, spell remembering, experience points, skills, exspecially non fighting skills, hitpoint development. It may be OK for P&P since there you can make up your own rules where appropriate, but not in a computer game. It\'s outdated technology.