Planeshift Council

[DepthBlade]

Since Annah you don\'t realize you need to empty your PM box because its right full, here is your response to the invitation.

Greetings,

    Yes I imagined this would come eventually and the answer is a \"Solid No\". This is both by my members and myself. We are not going to have our actions controled what so ever, we don\'t wish to join something that will go inactive because a lack of agreements. Start your council but know this now it will have no bearing upon my guilds course of action...now or in the future.

Sincerely Mael Dosforia aka DepthBlade (Leader of Rebirth)

[snow_RAveN]

Originally posted by Annah
lol Snow Raven.
 Though, I still choose both. And yes, you can be good & evil in the same time. Tell me, what\'s good? What\'s evil? Words ...
 Also, tell me, who\'re you to decide those things? 0.o
 So go back hack those people
 

Good is an action that bennefits not only oneself but also that of others.

Evil is an action that is selfish or for ones own personal gain which involves harming other people.

(yes ive heard of the quote \" The road to hell is paved with good intentions\")
Thats my 2cents on that subject.

Besides yes you can chose the choice is yours but it only hurts you more if you don\'t choose. Yes so you can choose both but it won\'t turn out nicely also.

[Annah]

err sorry I forgot to tell ya Depth that my inbox is full. I will start cleaning it these days when I\'ll have some spare time.
 As for your answer, no comment. Just two things, it won\'t go inactive and -> \"Start your council.....\" -> it\'s not my council.
 Good Luck to ya in the future

[Hatchnet]

I have to disagree with you Raven on actions being either good or evil.

Imagine it as a spectrum with good(white) on one end and evil(black) on the other, with neutral(grey) in the middle. Now an example: A paladin slayes acerial killer to protect an inocent child. Killing no matter what the reason is a black action. However the reason for the black action is to protect the child a white action which makes the overall action grey. Yet stoping the killer is a blue (noble) act which puts the overall act into the good side of the spectrum. However if the Paladin had slayed the killer for a red (revenge) or purple (selfish) reason the overall act would be evil does that make it a little easyer to understand?

[Annah]

Ok, this is becoming scary 0.o
 Hatchnet looks like ... me, some time ago :|
 I totally agree with your words btw.

[Hatchnet]

What can I say great minds think alike

[snow_RAveN]

Originally posted by Hatchnet
I have to disagree with you Raven on actions being either good or evil.

Imagine it as a spectrum with good(white) on one end and evil(black) on the other, with neutral(grey) in the middle. Now an example: A paladin slayes acerial killer to protect an inocent child. Killing no matter what the reason is a black action. However the reason for the black action is to protect the child a white action which makes the overall action grey. Yet stoping the killer is a blue (noble) act which puts the overall act into the good side of the spectrum. However if the Paladin had slayed the killer for a red (revenge) or purple (selfish) reason the overall act would be evil does that make it a little easyer to understand?

It is the duty of a paladin to protect. Thus killing a serial killer is his duty which is to protect innocents. Even if he kills a serieal killer for selfish gains or vengence his actions are still \"good\" because it bennefits the would be victims.
If he had killed a normal (assume innocent) person his actions will be considered evil as he murdered a contributing(lets also assume) member of society in cold blood.

if an action still \"bennefits\" other \"innocent\" people his actions are thus \"good\"

However iam human,and i can be wrong.

p.s.

i have to agree with annah here the steel temps have caught themselves a big one.

[edit] ho no, iam becoming a darklar (sp?) i think we should just make closeing statements and be done with the subject

Aslo it seems i have Hi-jacked this thread ! yah go me :] [/edit]

[Annah]

Ok, since this is becoming a little confusing for others, I will give you another example Snow Raven.
 It\'s the years of the crusades. Many died in a war started to eradicate the ones they considered \"evil\", who weren\'t pure. But for the other side, the ones who started the crusades were considered the \"evil that must be killed\". So after all, who\'re the good ones? Who\'re the evil ones? After your way of thinking, they can\'t be both good or evil right?
 And I can give you plenty more examples.
 Tip, just look at US vs muslim terrorism. It\'s evil being a terrorist? They\'re just following their religion, were is said: \"destroy the unworthy ones, kill the ones who steps in front of our believes etc.\"
 US also have their \"evil\" (considered by you) points. Like the thought of controlling the oil areas. But they consider it a good point for them. Though, this killed thousands of people ...
 Err, ok this is enough. ^_^

 * EDIT *
 Draklar is a different person. You can\'t \"become\" Draklar. And no, you didn\'t hijack the thread. We were just discussing.
 People know the main title here is PLANESHIFT COUNCIL    

[Hatchnet]

The duty of a Paladin is to protect the inocent yes. However that does not stop him from being human which means he can hold a grudge be greedy ext.

also good people can benifit from evil actions you took one part of my post and used it out of context; killing is evil period no matter who does it or for what reason. So killing to protect some one is still evil however good people  benifit from it  as I said befor nothing is ever black or white ther is a quote I use quite often though I can\'t remember where I got it from at the moment.

\"No man has the right to take the life of another\"

and I often add:

\" Yet is it not a greater sin to alow one to suffer because you refuse to sin?\"

[TheRedMonk]

A person that has a problem with me and seeks to solve it should come and talk to me directly. Hiding behind a council, I believe, is a sign of weakness and cowardness, two traits that I despise and that most likely will encourage me to solve our problem through brutal force rather than with nobility.
Prove that there is more to this council and I\'ll reconsider.

Tybalt

OOC: When did this become a discussion about alignments? I hate those
I got your PM Annah and will transmit the message to my comrades What rules are there in the council and are there any requirements for being allowed to join? Good luck!

[Hatchnet]

Realy the disscusion of a counsil and how it would affect the different alighnments is a disscusion about alighnments because that counsil must decide on which kinds of situations it will take action, furthermor it must be determined how much legal and moral authority it will be able to exercise and untill this game is developed to the point where such a counsil can take action such a counsil is actualy pointless. And Annah I\'m sure my guilds leaders will agree; furthermore it is their choice not yours who their diplomats are.

 And for those of you who still think things are simply black and white chew on this:

\"Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly upon our own point of view\"--- Obi Wan Kenobi; Star Wars: Return of the Jedi---

[Merdarion]

Originally posted by snow_RAveN

Originally posted by Annah
lol Snow Raven.
 Though, I still choose both. And yes, you can be good & evil in the same time. Tell me, what\'s good? What\'s evil? Words ...
 Also, tell me, who\'re you to decide those things? 0.o
 So go back hack those people
 

Good is an action that bennefits not only oneself but also that of others.

Evil is an action that is selfish or for ones own personal gain which involves harming other people.

(yes ive heard of the quote \" The road to hell is paved with good intentions\")
Thats my 2cents on that subject.

Besides yes you can chose the choice is yours but it only hurts you more if you don\'t choose. Yes so you can choose both but it won\'t turn out nicely also.

1.So in your opinion it would be good if you give Faction A Infos that means the death of Faction B (example: You know of a weak point in the defense of a town, sell that info to an MOB allowing them to sneak in, slaghter hundreds of helpless guys and raiding the town (which would be a benefit for the MOB), that would be good.

2.So you said that evil would be, being selfish. So if a MOB got into someone\'s, because a guy told them the weak points of town defense, hometown slaughtered anybody (his Girlfriend maybe?) and he\'s pursuing that guy, to take revenge. Would you be able to call that bad(and if you look closer others come to a benefit).

[Hatchnet]

Looks like Snow Ravens getting chewed up on this one

[Annah]

\"...furthermore it is their choice not yours who their diplomats are.\"
 Not really. You see, if they choose someone, and I don\'t want to speak with that person, it\'s useless to be named a diplomat. I chose you to be a diplomat in my eyes. Of course, they might not consider you one, but still, you are.
 Yes, is complicated but true
 And also, in this stage of the game, a council is useless, but think logically. We have something established for when the game will fully support this
 So, that\'s why we should start from now.

 * EDIT *
 Ok, I will go send an email to Venge as I promised, and watch a movie. Then I guess I will go to sleep lol. Tomorrow I\'ll make a full description of the Planeshift Council, its roles, policies and stuff. Good Night guys.

[AendarCallenlasse]

I haven\'t and will not read through all the posts, too lazy.  Keep that in mind if I post something already stated.

I for one think the idea of a council is a good idea.  I believe it adds to the RP atmosphere of the guild.  However there should be a reason beyond democracy/diplomacy to join it.  Take the UN for example, since it\'s been stated as an example, they can place embargos or they can send in peacekeeping forces.

Few people will join something if it doesn\'t offer them something.  There should be an advantage alluring enough that people will willingly join and there should be penalties that bind the council together.  What\'s to stop someone from going against a council decision.