Good vs. EVIL

[Draklar]

Originally posted by Hatchnet
it contains neither but balances the two.

It\'s still paradox...
look at it this way: You can\'t balance what does not exist.
And what\'s with the \'people can be evil and good, while nature can\'t\' theory?

Man is part of nature for Danu\'s sake!

Animals do both good and evil, but they aren\'t corrupted by our dumb society. So they do only what\'s important for them, they have simple life. Here\'s an irony: They aren\'t stupid enough to participate in the \"rat race\".
They kill, they take care of their children... the only difference is that they don\'t do that for money.

And animals are intelligent beings. Just because they aren\'t making weapons of mass destruction or creating medicine that is weakening their natural resistance, doesn\'t mean they aren\'t.
Please, read a bit, especially texts from people who are close to nature -_-

- Swords

[Xordan]

Remember that the \'evil\' can win. If it does, then it becomes the \'good\' and will eventually have to fight a new \'evil\'

[Efflixi Aduro]

Originally posted by Xordan
Remember that the \'evil\' can win. If it does, then it becomes the \'good\' and will eventually have to fight a new \'evil\'

Evil isnt always evil to start with.  Many evil rulers wish to have everything their way.  Which means the person has a goal and not just killing or anything.  Many things tha arent \"evil\" to start with arent relly evil.

[Hatchnet]

Draklar I am someone who is close to nature and though animals are \"inteligent\" in one scence of the word they do not do something for purpose of doing something (ie: because you can) which is what seperates good from evil law from chaos in the minds reasoning beings. They do things because it is the natural thing for them to do ex: eating when hungry, protecting the young, fleeing predaters ect. In fact much of this is naturaly ingraned into them and they must be trained to not do if something they do is causeing problems ex: getting into the feed bin after they have found a way in.

[Draklar]

I guess you wouldn\'t eat when hungry... or protect your children... or flee when someone tries to kill you... wow... you must be addicted mmorpg\'er

killing is evil
protecting is good

is it that hard to understand?

bleh, I\'m having deja-vu... last time I heard that, the next thing was
\"animals are just walking objects\" (as in they have no soul so it isn\'t evil to kill them)
or \"animals were created by God just for our usage\" (as in animal which won\'t be eaten by human has no point in living) ...like cockroach is any usage for us.

- Swords

[Hatchnet]

Originally posted by Draklar
I guess you wouldn\'t eat when hungry... or protect your children... or flee when someone tries to kill you... wow... you must be addicted mmorpg\'er

killing is evil
protecting is good

is it that hard to understand?

- Swords

Your missing the point animals do these things out of instinct not logic like we do. And if killing is evil then is it not evil to kill for food? No it is the reason why we kill and why we protectc that makes the act either good or evil. Killing can be an act of good and protecting can be an act of bad depending solely upon the motivations of the person makeing the action. It is this ability to reason that seperates my desire for companionship from my cats understanding that being peted feels good.

OOC:
No I do not always eat when hungry if I did I\'d be fat.
I am willing to protect everyone not just children.
If someone is trying to kill me I am going to be fighting back; weather or not I\'d be willing to kill them in self defence would depend soley on their determination to kill.

[Draklar]

killing for food - evil, but right thing to do.
protect as an act of \"bad\" - good, but wrong thing to do.

You know what? Animals do fight back when they have any chance. But if they don\'t, running away is the only logical thing to do.

I\'m eating whenever I\'m hungry (unless there\'s nothing to eat around) and I\'m nowhere close to being fat. But you know... I\'m not eating more than I have to and hardly ever eat unhealthy food... most of animals don\'t as well... and they aren\'t exactly all fat.

Animals protect whoever is close to them. Like dog will protect his master. They just don\'t seem to see a point in protecting who they don\'t know.

And I was amazed at how well some squirrels can use logics and learn. Researches showed that many animals can follow logics (even if primitive).

But I don\'t see how that is changing the fact that other animals can do good and evil as well as we do...
Even if it did come out of their instincts.

- Swords

[Merdarion]

Well, That thing with differnt goals isn\'t quite correct.

Often it\'s just the How not the Why, that makes the difference.

A good char would just look that no one, who doesn\'t really have to do with his goal comes to harm.

While evil ones won\'t mind to do that.

And I know that the cabal is organised,
I think that, they are similar to the sith in star wars.

[XpYtZ]

\"Life brings chaos, chaos brings war, war brings death, death brings peace, peace brings life.\"  Jun -Taoist-

\"To every thing there is a purpose and a season[time] to every purpose under the heavens.\" The book of Wisdom -Jewish manuscript-

Nature lives within these paradign and true good obeys the flow and ebb of life while true evil fights agains it.
Law exists to guide the foolish who by definition will not understand or obey it while the wise have only to listen [with the intenet to obey] and they will not require the law\'s guidance since it will reveal its self to them.
In this sence foolishness and wisdom are not the tangible attributes that we use but instead qualifiers for those who obey and understad as compaired to those who by choise or (by literal foolishness: being their inabillity to understand) refuse the \'natural order\'.
If the thread bothers you pass it by but remember:
\"Theologans and Phylosiphers never have a lack of things to talk about.\"

[Jaakon]

This discussion is so amusing.

Thers that guy who states this and that is evil/good.
Muhaha, good and evil are words made up by humans!
So whatever you define as good or evil is it.
An example: you said protection is good. Now I start protecting a very dangerous flesh eating bacteria, is that good?

Then the animals. Who said they cant think?
We eat when were hungry, sleep when were tired and drink when were thirsty. Good god! Were ruled by instincts!!! Animals on the other hand can think about how to get food from us (begging) can remember punishment and can think about lots of stuff.

Its so funny, because the two subjects fit so well together, just ask an animal whats good or bad!

[danti-christ]

the battle we are talking bout good vs evil

is this not an essential part of life as with out this battle there would only be nutral creating bordom

and unbalencing the universe  

plus then we would have no baddies / goodies to fight

[Under the moon]

There is no evil.
There is no good.
Where shadows have walked,
And light has stood.
Order and chaos,
They are the same.
The laws were all lined up,
When the winds came.
Future and past,
Circles or lines.
The future is hungry,
As the past dines.
Is life the begining,
Or death the end?
The way must be followed,
Through hill rock or bend.
Justice or vengence,
Which will you choose.
For one to succeed,
The other must lose.
Go back or forward,
On the path I must take.
The choice under the moon,
To forgive or forsake?

[Draklar]

Originally posted by Jaakon
An example: you said protection is good. Now I start protecting a very dangerous flesh eating bacteria, is that good?

You protect life: that is good.

Why is it that hard to understand that good isn\'t always the right thing to do, while evil is not always the wrong thing to do?

It\'s not like we should always do good and never do evil.
If you want to protect others by destroying the bacteria, then you\'re doing the right thing. But that doesn\'t change the fact that by destroying it, you will terminate life.
Humans are behaving worse than viruses. Destroying everything around in order to live in luxuries.
It\'s not like we, out of all creatures, have the biggest right to live.
It is normal fight for survival. Fight brings suffering. Suffering is result of evil.
Also sure, good and evil are just words made by human, but the words represent specific behaviour:
Evil: \"That which causes suffering\"
Good: \"That which causes joy\"

- Swords

[Jaakon]

Seems you dont understand much of good and evil.

Lets take the bacteria thing as example. (It seems you understand that while Im protecting it the bacteria eats humans)

So for the bacterias Im kind of a good god, while Im evil to human society. This is the whole point. To say something is good you have to stand on a side, so what is good and what is evil depends on your point of view. Thats why its so stupid to say something is plain good/evil.

For further understanding read the poem up there, which is great!

And for the oh so evil humanity, remember that if you destroy something you help new stuff to come up...

[Draklar]

Originally posted by Jaakon Thats why its so stupid to say something is plain good/evil.

here I partly agree with you.
That doesn\'t change the fact that protecting it would be good, whilst using it as object of destruction would be evil.
so the whole situation wouldn\'t be neither plain good or evil. But such facts as protecting or destroying would...

err yes, without humanity, the nature could regenerate and go back to it\'s harmony? ?(

The poem? I wouldn\'t describe it as \"great\", because saying there is no good or evil is saying there is no suffering or joy...
I\'d much rather call \"great\":
Our quest of the highest theory,
Is controlled by that theory,
So the way we think
Is the closest link?
An expedition through different views
Gives us richly faceted clues,
Let us focus on some of the elements
That\'s a source for endless experiments

again, I advise to read about other views on existance, before actually believing you know the truth.

- Swords