Fairness

[Nikolia]

I have a question. How are you going to fix the \'Cheat\'
Wont people just be able to look at it\'s source and then exploit the game?

[Draklar]

Originally posted by Zetsumei_the_Banned
I suppose sports is a good analogy.  You want to be the best, at more or less any means necessary.

People who forget that sports isn\'t about winning, but competition; who don\'t go towards success by hard training, but take steroids are simply losers...
So yeah, I think this analogy is quite good. Because in my eyes your actions make you a loser as well...

Originally posted by Zetsumei_the_Banned
There were not, to my knowledge, any punishments or reprimands written down anywhere.

Maybe if you\'d actually read instead of cheating, you might notice that it is written down:

2003.05.15
We just discovered that some players (even amongst the ones that are entitled to get the prizes) have completed the quest with more than one character to get the prize more than one time. This is NOT allowed and is considered cheating. We identified the people doing that, and since it\'s just the first time we will not take any action against that (no prize removal, no public names, no char deletion, etc...). We will simply give the prize to just one of their char. But please remember to play fairly, next time we will take some actions against that.

- Swords

[snow_RAveN]

There is a lesson to be learned form this, we have to know that this is a community, and the actions of one person(or more) will affect everyone eals whether we/they like it or not.

tygerwilde, blue command, zetsumei and a number of people are right on the hacker part(in a way) and besides, Stuff that happens eariler means you don\'t have to deal with it latter, which \"could\" be worse

[Androgos]

Originally posted by Nikolia
I have a question. How are you going to fix the \'Cheat\'
Wont people just be able to look at it\'s source and then exploit the game?

Eh? It\'s like this:

1. Some player compiles PS from source
2. Player enjoys PS and is curious how it works
3. Player plays with PS source and finds a cheating location
After here the outcome can differ
4.1 Player tests the cheat localy ONLY and once sure it\'s exploitable, reports it
5.1 Devs fix it, commit to CVS and updates PS server(s) with the patch
6.1 End of story, server is patched and so on, cheat is gone. I don\'t really get how you where thinking though
Other story
4.2 Player find the exploit, and tests on the public server(s)
5.2 Cheat works, and player doesn\'t turn it in
6.2 Sooner or later, Player will be caught cheating and banned
7.2 Cheat is fixed and applied to the server(s)

Happy end, just a matter of effort and time

[Watcher]

Androgos, while I totaly agree with what you say, if someone finds a cheat then they could wreak the econimy by making tons of Magic swords and dropping them all over the world at once. Magic swords which once where worth 100000000000 tria become worthless. So it isnt always a happy ending,

[Draklar]

Not knowing the law does not release from responsibility...

- Swords

[tygerwilde]

to watchers statement, sure it would be possible for them to do something like that, but it\'s much easier for the developers to track such movements on their database and delete them from it, as well as removing the player and ban their IP. yes, people will do such things with the intent of harming the game, but at this point they AREN\'T harming the game in the least, because at this point, it\'s NOT a game, it\'s essentially an engine in testing. they NEED people to push every boundary to the breaking point to see to it that there\'s no way to do this in the final game.

[Chestar]

This has vastly strayed from the topic... I think the crystal wipe is sensible because as already stated, not all of the \"corruptible\" cheaters (meaning ones who misused the exploit instead of reporting it).
Also, who cares about crystals, in CB it\'s gonna be about the tria, right? If people spent hundreds of hours searching for worthless items on a beta, then good for them, they should be familiar with the environment of the game and the other players, and hopefully found and reported a bug.

[tygerwilde]

haven\'t you ever seen a thread hijacking before?

[Seytra]

Originally posted by tygerwilde
but at this point they AREN\'T harming the game in the least, because at this point, it\'s NOT a game, it\'s essentially an engine in testing.

However, at the exact point in time at which anything from the testing environment is being transferred to the game, what happened in the testing effectively becomes part of the game in retrospect. So yes, if the crystals are not being wiped, then the MB cheating will have hurt the game.

Originally posted by tygerwilde
they NEED people to push every boundary to the breaking point to see to it that there\'s no way to do this in the final game.

Yes, they need people who report the bugs once they are found and verified. And no, I don\'t think these reporters deserve anything that may be gained from the cheat / exploit. If the devs feel they deserve something, it will come from them. It\'s just like saying the same thing about people who break into your bank account. Do they deserve the money they stole from you, because they \"helped the bank discover a flaw in the system\", since it has been spotted months later, after they had robbed millions of people?

@ Zetsumi: it is common sense not to cheat. There is no way you can\'t have known that (and don\'t start nit-picking like \"it wasn\'t cheating because cheating is...\", you know exactly what I mean.). There is also no need for it to be written down anywhere. If you are one of these people who just go \"it wasn\'t explicitely stated by anyone who has authority\", then I pity you. There is absolutely nothing you can say or do to justify your actions. :tdown:

[zedd_owd]

Originally posted by Seytra

Originally posted by tygerwilde
but at this point they AREN\'T harming the game in the least, because at this point, it\'s NOT a game, it\'s essentially an engine in testing.

However, at the exact point in time at which anything from the testing environment is being transferred to the game, what happened in the testing effectively becomes part of the game in retrospect. So yes, if the crystals are not being wiped, then the MB cheating will have hurt the game.

Originally posted by tygerwilde
they NEED people to push every boundary to the breaking point to see to it that there\'s no way to do this in the final game.

Yes, they need people who report the bugs once they are found and verified. And no, I don\'t think these reporters deserve anything that may be gained from the cheat / exploit. If the devs feel they deserve something, it will come from them. It\'s just like saying the same thing about people who break into your bank account. Do they deserve the money they stole from you, because they \"helped the bank discover a flaw in the system\", since it has been spotted months later, after they had robbed millions of people?

@ Zetsumi: it is common sense not to cheat. There is no way you can\'t have known that (and don\'t start nit-picking like \"it wasn\'t cheating because cheating is...\", you know exactly what I mean.). There is also no need for it to be written down anywhere. If you are one of these people who just go \"it wasn\'t explicitely stated by anyone who has authority\", then I pity you. There is absolutely nothing you can say or do to justify your actions. :tdown:

i completely agree with you , thus a database wipe would be further justfified as there was no of competely detecting the people who cheated. this will ensure that such actions may be prevented in the future.
 

[Draklar]

Originally posted by Zetsumei_the_Banned
Banning wasn\'t mentioned, crystal wiping wasn\'t mentioned, etc.  True, the devs can do whatever they want and make up things as they go along, it\'s their power and right to do so, but I didn\'t see any punishment, not until after they updated the main site after Psybur\'s source code modification.

Again, consequences were mentioned. On the main site. Just because you didn\'t see it, doesn\'t change anything. You knew what you did was wrong, you were asked to stop it, but you didn\'t.
Devs made a warning. If you didn\'t see it, it\'s your loss. But don\'t say there was none.

- Swords

[Monketh]

The Developers reserve the right as creators of this project to apply which consequences they deem appropriate, without violating the law, at any time, on any user, and for any reason.
Cheaters should have kept this in mind when they joined up.

If exploiting the system, ask yourself: Did you put any work in?...

Planeshift Style of Government: Oligarchy.

[Adeli]

Does anyone else see the irony here?

What Zetsumei and Psybur did (was Zet proven guilty?), would not be a problem if there was no transfer. It seriously would have been a form of testing (or perhaps a bit of fun), reaping no rewards.
The Devs\' choice to have the transfer has made this a problem. Thus, they have made what Zet and Psybur did a problem.
It\'s a very round-about way of thinking, I\'ll admit. But any implications caused by Psybur\'s modification, are the result of the Devs\' decision to transfer crystals into CB.
I do not really excuse Psybur for his modification, but it is the Devs who make this a problem, and I can\'t understand why?
I have one thought on the matter, and to keep the peace, I shall not voice that opinion here; I am too low on the food chain.
Though it seems the only possibility.

Not having a transfer is the only way these \'wrongs\' can be righted, but it\'s not my choice, and I don\'t care.

[Kiern]

Originally posted by Adeli
What Zetsumei and Psybur did (was Zet proven guilty?), would not be a problem if there was no transfer.

Wrong.  They screwed with the server, and ruined other people\'s fun.  That is a problem.

I didn\'t play during the time they were around, but a few good kicks to the head would have been something I would be tossing around if I had been.