grammer

[Hatchnet]

Originally posted by Icefalcon

Originally posted by Chestar
If a twelve year-old *cough* me *cough* can understand how to show respect well enough to know that capitalization and grammar (excusing people whose first language isn\'t English) is one of the key ways to showing that you do not lack humility and do consider yourself equal to others posting in the same forum as you. It is simply a matter of taking pride in your work, respecting fellow players, and realizing that how you present yourself could affect how you sway people towards what you are saying. By saying something that is lacking of proper grammar, you are telling the reader and the person whose thread it is in which you are posting that your time is more important than theirs and you feel you are priveleging them with your opinion, although you cause them to spend extra time trying to figure out what you meant, in which case you should probably restrain yourself from replying thereof.

*points up* If you haven?t read this? read it.

Danti, I can guarantee that you are capable of using correct spelling and grammar. You just have to slow down and pay attention to what you are saying and how you are saying it. Nobody is stupid enough to be unable to use correct grammar, I don\'t care who you are. It?s the lazy way to write, and being lazy is no excuse. Try capitalizing your ?I?s, that?s an easy one to start with?

If you only knew how arrogant the two of you sound maybe you would stop all this while you have a chance to keep it from ruining the game. But then again people who tend to look down their noses at other people seem to think they have a right to do so. And others will find any excuse they can to cause trouble. It is as I said you have a chance to stop this here and now. So why don?t you?

[Bjorn]

I give up with you people. All you do is flame, and flame, and flame. I am DISCUSSING THE ISSUE. I would not like to cause a fight!!!

And I agree, leave this topic forever. I have no more patience to waste trying to discuss the issue with you. Goodbye.

[Icefalcon]

Originally posted by Hatchnet
If you only knew how arrogant the two of you sound maybe you would stop all this while you have a chance to keep it from ruining the game. But then again people who tend to look down their noses at other people seem to think they have a right to do so. And others will find any excuse they can to cause trouble.

I guess my post did sound negative, but I seriously did not intend it to be a flame. I was trying to help him. Those who know me know that I rarely flame anyone, and If I do, it is totally IC.

It is as I said you have a chance to stop this here and now. So why don?t you?

And why shoud we stop discussing this? Does it offend you that some people would rather not see the English language go down the tubes?

[Monketh]

Originally posted by Andycornell

Originally posted by Monketh
Some people refuse to stand back and watch the degradation of the english language, I\'m one of them...

Remember, not everyone got English as first language, many of the people browsing and posting on the Planeshift forums might have learned their English by them self.

You can\'t just ignore that.

I don\'t hold any non-native speaker liable for misuse.  But if English is your first langauge, and you don\'t have some disability, there is no excuse to type like you\'re in a chat room!  Now I understand that people make mistakes in grammar and spelling, I don\'t care about when they do make a mistake so long as it looks like they at least put some effort into proofreading their post.

But, please, it does not seem to me like a person that whines about bad grammar, or spelling is intelligent, more the opposite.

Ha. Ha.
I\'m damn tired of having to translate english into english; I shouldn\'t have to, you shouldn\'t have to, and no-one on this forum should have to.
Taking time to use grammar is a measure of respect that I expect from every user capable of it to every user of this forum.

But then again, I capitalize and check my spelling in chatrooms myself...

[Zorium]

If you look at the grammer of the earlier posts that say that grammer is of no importance, you will see that the grammer is in general pretty poor.  Now look at the grammer in the later posts by the same people, the grammer is on the whole better than the earlier posts.

It is clear to me that these people believe that better grammer will enable them to communicate their ideas better than if their grammer is below standard.  Based on this belief I am struggling to find any reason at all that this thread even exists, as the people adovacting tolerance concede that poor grammer is an ineffective way to convey ideas and opinions.

-Zorium

[Hatchnet]

I?ve been using a spellchecker this whole thread. I admit that despite my IQ and high level of reading comprehension I still have trouble remembering how to spell from time to time. That is why I keep a dictionary by the desk; however I only recently started using the spell checker as a means to remove some of the ammunition of the people who like to cause trouble. This is a problem of people thinking that they are too good to read the content of a post (which is what they need to be doing anyways regardless of grammar and spelling) and instead reading the way the post is typed. Now this does not mean that posts like ?meet me @ the n? are appropriate. This however is not what this thread is about: this thread is about people complaining about poor spelling and grammar which simply should not be done and shows a distinct lack of regard for a persons feelings. This is why I would like for it to stop before people start to leave because they do not feal welcome. Now please stop!

[Seytra]

Originally posted by Hatchnet
Bjorn I just ran your last post through a spell checker and realized you really have no room whatsoever to talk here. And I am willing to bet that this is the case with the majority if not all of the people who are complaining about spelling and grammar so from now on every time I see someone make a post just to complain about spelling and grammar I?m going to let them know what spelling and grammar mistakes they made.

This proves that you are arrogant. It also proves that you didn\'t even try to understand what we have been saying.

Originally posted by Hatchnet
I am tired of seeing all these posts complaining about grammar; so maybe if I do this problem will come to an end.

While I do agree that a post that only complains about grammar / punctuation, etc. is bad and borders on SPAM, I will not accept people to just type like they\'re all dyslexic but in fact simply are lazy. If someone makes an effort and states they have trouble, then it\'s very fine with me, and I see danti-christ doing both. Also, there is a big difference between dyslexia and chatspeak; at least to me there is no \"chatspeak-syndrome\".

I know that there most certainly are several grammar issues in my posts (since english isn\'t my native language). However, I make an effort to at least have the things correct that I know what they should be. But if you feel you must, you may point out every single one of them.

And, just as Monketh, I do make an effort to capitalise and spell correctly even in chatrooms.

@ danti-christ: your grammar has improved, and I appreciate the effort you obviously are making. :tup:

I sincerely hope that you are serious and not a troll, that would make me sad.

@ Moogie: I absolutely know that the things that most of us take for granted in fact are not. I personally know some people who have dyslexia.
I simply expect them to make an effort to do as good as they can, just as I am expecting that very same of everyone else. This means that the standards are very different for the two groups in terms of quality, but not in effort.

As I don\'t see any way to be more clear on this, there most likely will not be any more posts by me on this subject.

[Chestar]

Well said Seytra. It is in my strongest opinion that your last post was the one to cease this non-sensible flaming.
---------------------------------------------------------------
My opinion rests at the fact that I will not be swayed by someone who looks as though they care not about which way I go; if the sell themselves to me by acting as though they want me on their side, it could be considered a done deal. However, if someone has a poorly put together post that basically says \"I really don\'t care about you or your descisions I just want higher post rankings\" then I will be forced to neglect them. I am only twelve years old, in seventh grade, and not done with my major English grammar classes, and I am just asking for other posters to make the effort I, and people such as Seytra who does not speak English as a first language, strive to put forth.

[Efflixi Aduro]

You people forget that some peoples first langs aren\'t english, so if you understand what they say let it go. As for people like me who speak english every day, feel free to flame us on our spelling us much as you want ^_^

[seperot]

it scares me for such a long time i was classed at the worst speller.....seems i\'ve lost my place in that with this new wave of............peo..ple *cringes*

[Hatchnet]

The problem (which most of you seem to be ignoring) is that people are making the effort and being ostracized for their failure. And that is what people are complaining about. Yes there is a very big difference between those who make the effort and fail and those who simply do not try. Unfortunately you people are ignoring this difference in an effort to support your actions. Which is why the attacks (yes that is what they are) on people who do not manage to post correct grammar must stop. Because not one of the posts I have seen treated in such a manner truly deserved such treatment. In fact I seem to remember reading that chat speak as it is called is not even allowed on these forums.

Furthermore if as you say you wish to prevent the declination of the English language there are far better approaches to doing so ex: helping people with their English (use pms or private chat) instead of attacking their posts complaining about their grammar.

Also if you do not have the reading comprehension necessary to read a poorly made post you can simply copy and paste it to your spell checker which is very simple to do and takes very little time to perform (this could even be used as a way to help teach proper language skills).

And if you are too lazy (yes I said lazy) to do even that much simply DO NOT POST.

[Under the moon]

@ Seperot--Don\'t worry so much Sep.  With a little less effort I\'m sure you could regain the title of Worst Speller, along with Pundit of Poor Punctuation,  King of Incorrect Capitalization,  and God of Bad Grammar!:D

(I am joking, by the way.)


(Sort of;))


-  I don\'t think it is a bad thing to ask people to improve their grammar if it is done in a nice and courteous way.  Some people may not realize that their posts are hard to read.  In fact, it would be discourteous to let them continue writing poorly if they have the capacity for improvement and other forum members are beginning to view them as unintelligent.
-  That would be like letting someone run around with their fly open without giving them a heads up.

[Bjorn]

Originally posted by Hatchnet
The problem (which most of you seem to be ignoring) is that people are making the effort and being ostracized for their failure. And that is what people are complaining about. Yes there is a very big difference between those who make the effort and fail and those who simply do not try. Unfortunately you people are ignoring this difference in an effort to support your actions. Which is why the attacks (yes that is what they are) on people who do not manage to post correct grammar must stop.

You are using a SpellChecker on other people\'s posts to support your actions.

Originally posted by Under the moon

-  I don\'t think it is a bad thing to ask people to improve their grammar if it is done in a nice and courteous way.  Some people may not realize that their posts are hard to read.  In fact, it would be discourteous to let them continue writing poorly if they have the capacity for improvement and other forum members are beginning to view them as unintelligent.
-  That would be like letting someone run around with their fly open without giving them a heads up.

Nice point there Moon . I agree 100%!

I just wish people would try to understand that I am trying to DISCUSS the issue, with other people. I am not proving a point, or flaming anyone. This is MY last post on this topic, so I would like to leave my mark.

Hatchnet, you were the one to continue this thread. You aksed to stop, then you just kept those retaliations coming! I have left my mark. Peace out, and I hope we all learned our lessons.

[Adeli]

Many people joined this discussion with the phrase \"Not everyone speaks English as their first language.\"
This point was addressed many, many times throughout the thread. I know this, because I just read it entirely. It seems silly to add to a discussion without first reading everything that others have contributed.
I have partial dyslexia myself, it\'s very strange. I only mistake the ordering of letters in uncommon words, and one day I\'ll realise that I\'d read it wrong so many times, it happens quite often when I read. Yet I can still mantain correct grammar if I set my mind to it.
As for \'chatroom speak\'... This is how I used to type when I went to chatrooms. I found crude abbreviations hard to understand. Only when I play online shooters does my grammar lapse, as I usually need to rush a message.

Hatchnet, you have come across as very ignorant to me. Nobody is being ostracised here, they are being corrected, there is a whole world of difference between the two my friend.
As to your precious spell-checker... Do you realise it is quite fallible? There are many words that spell checkers can not recognise, so my suggestion is to use a dictionary, if you are unsure of spelling or grammar, not to run spell checker. I myself used a dictionary, I didn\'t know if abbreviate had one \'b\' or two, and sounding it phonetically didn\'t help me.

I for one will vouch for IceFalcon\'s non-flaming-ness. (wonderful grammar there huh?)

Danti, there has been remarkable improvement in your grammar, in this thread alone, I am most impressed. I doubt very much any of us feel that you are less intelligent. You stating you are more intelligent because of your ability to square root 35 in your head... is somewhat foolish.
I agree with Seytra\'s take on there being nothing intelligence really measures. A good friend of mine is badly dyslexic and almost failed english, but did remarkably well in maths and science classes, I don\'t feel more or less intelligent than he.

Just to clarify, I don\'t sit here agonising over words to use, this is my natural way of speaking. Growing up, my friends would complain that I used \'big words\' all the time.

Oh, I can\'t help myself on this one... I tried, but the lure is too great.
The word Grammar, is spelled with an \'a\' not an \'e\'.
I do not mean to be insulting with that, it just struck me as ironic, I apologise in advance for any possible insult.

If any of you are thinking \"Apologise is spelled with a \'z\' not a \'s\' \", I say this; not everyone is American.

[Moogie]

I think this has run its course now... basically all points have been made, and it\'s starting to turn into a \"who can make a better reply\" match. It was an interesting debate, nonetheless. I think alot of people learned something important from this.

As always, if there is something important and valid you need to add here, PM me and I\'ll consider re-opening it temporarily.

Sep: Awww, don\'t worry... you\'ll always be the worst speller to me. *lovehugs*