Author Topic: Everyone hates mining. Right?  (Read 8227 times)

Saphire

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« Reply #30 on: January 03, 2005, 10:33:48 am »
My old mining idea

A VERY long read (make sure you have some spare hours before reading it in-depth) with most-likely broken images, and a lot of long responses.
IMO, the ultimate mining idea post, simply because of it\'s size and uniqueness... Even if it isn\'t possible. :P

[and for the love of god, DO NOT CAST ANIMATE UNDEAD (post) ON IT!]
« Last Edit: January 03, 2005, 10:34:28 am by Saphire »
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jorrit

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« Reply #31 on: January 03, 2005, 11:28:21 am »
Quote
Originally posted by Saphire
My old mining idea

A VERY long read (make sure you have some spare hours before reading it in-depth) with most-likely broken images, and a lot of long responses.
IMO, the ultimate mining idea post, simply because of it\'s size and uniqueness... Even if it isn\'t possible. :P

[and for the love of god, DO NOT CAST ANIMATE UNDEAD (post) ON IT!]


What we will probably do to limit mining cheats is to have a max stack count for items in the inventory. Then we can set that to (for example) 20 for ore items. That means that after mining 20 ores you have to get rid of them before you can go on.

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ramlambmoo

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« Reply #32 on: January 03, 2005, 01:08:05 pm »
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Originally posted by elscouta
***agrees with what it has been said about the new no-twice-in-the-row***. It slows the mining process which is good (4k trias per hour is just insane) but it makes the thing even more boring because before you could easily dig at a good rate and chat at the same time/browse forums.
 
I guess i even prefered MB hunting to the current digging system... :(


yeah, the new system is still bot-able, and it makes it harder for people doing the mining themselves to chat now.  But only a bit.  I think mining should just go back to something like crystal hunting: you have a series of mining tunnels, and ores spawn there.  Simple, fun,  not quite as repetitive and you have to do it yourself.

diabolus

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« Reply #33 on: January 03, 2005, 07:51:29 pm »
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That means that after mining 20 ores you have to get rid of them before you can go on.


lol, sometimes the most obvious solution makes the most sense. Give ores weight, the more weight you carry the slower you dig, and once over your weight limit you will have to either drop ores or return to town. This should automatically limit botting dramatically with [i assume] the least amount of changing. You risk alot by dropping ores to mine longer and besides you will still not be able to carry it all back in one go if you do so........Packmules coming? :P

[This is in reply to the link to anothe thread, since that thread is already 5+ pages long, i\'ll just respond here :P]
Quote

3- Nodes that originate on the floor will grow upwards, nodes that originate on the ceiling will grow downwards, and nodes on the walls of impenetrable rock will grow away from the wall. Ceiling nodes will be mined out upwards, leaving a cavity in the roof. Floor nodes will be dug out downwards, leaving a pit in the floor. Wall nodes will be reduced to a thin seam on the impenatrable rock.


Very initriguing idea, and i would love a world that are as dynamic as that. I\'m not sure i\'ve actually seen even single player games with that type of \'growth\'. Half Life 2 was revolutionary with its physics engine and even -that- was actually rather limited. [Imagine walls being rebuilt or acid actualy slowly \'eating\' through walls....]. So i don\'t know whether it\'s hard to do, put something tells me you need almost an entire engine for that. Plus if you can THAT in mines, why stop there? Building your own house with bricks jumps to mind.....building structures/statues and -anything you can think off suddenly should be possible. [and i\'m not talking about buying a \'predefined skeleton\' of a building like you probably get in other MMORPG, but actually unique building blocks]

The whole minerals and different types of metals which are mixed and treated in various ways [almot like an alchemy type of system] is very good. It\'ll certainly give depth to mining, although won\'t change the digging part UNLESS the above system is used OR

the focus is actually completly shifted from the digging but to the \'treating\' process. So ess
entially the digging itself is simply going to the right place and press dig and you dig 50 ores in one shot..done. The ores will not be very valuable, but after doing some mixing and matching and whatever \'tempering\' processes are available the ore can turn into sometihng alot more valuable.

i.e. you do not dig \'ores\', but unrefined \'rocks with gold in it\' , and then you need to refine and extract [almost like those golddiggers with their little pans next to the rivers and sifting the gold out of it] and then you go to some \'facility\' to do whatever else. Each process makes the item more and more valuable, you can of course \'sell-short\' without going all the way [i.e. gold bar, or golden bracelet]
but the profits will be alot less. Essentially being a miner in PS will probably then mean you need to go further and become skilled in say blacksmithing or jewelry making

Kaljostro

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« Reply #34 on: January 04, 2005, 10:23:39 am »
The game doesn\'t seem to be able to count above 255 - yesterday i wanted to sell about 340 ore, but then it said \"You sold 255 platinum for 3060 trias\" and the remaining ore disappeared. Now that\'s kinda annoying after being mining for so long...

bbum

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« Reply #35 on: January 04, 2005, 10:52:33 am »
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What we will probably do to limit mining cheats is to have a max stack count for items in the inventory. Then we can set that to (for example) 20 for ore items. That means that after mining 20 ores you have to get rid of them before you can go on.


i hate these unrealistic mechanics being used to solve problems, a more immersive solution would be to have to go back to town to get your pick repaired every once in awhile, or not being able to carry any more items due too lack of room, or your could have it so you have to /dig around the rock to find a good place to mine and then you can only mine there for a random ammount of time before it depletes and you have to /dig around other areas of the rock for ore. these are just quick ideas off my head of more realistic solutions to the botting problem.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2005, 10:55:21 am by bbum »

jorrit

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« Reply #36 on: January 04, 2005, 10:58:20 am »
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Originally posted by bbum
i hate these unrealistic mechanics being used to solve problems, a more immersive solution would be to have to go back to town to get your pick repaired every once in awhile, or not being able to carry any more items due too lack of room, or your could have it so you have to /dig around the rock to find a good place to mine and then you can only mine there for a random ammount of time before it depletes and you have to /dig around other areas of the rock for ore. these are just quick ideas off my head of more realistic solutions to the botting problem.


How is this unrealistic? Is it realistic that someone carries 100 gold ores? That\'s a bit heavy isn\'t it? The maximum stack count is a reflection of the limitation that you can\'t carry huge amounts of stuff.

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Arzosah

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« Reply #37 on: January 04, 2005, 11:31:53 am »
Well, I\'d love HUGE monster spawns :P

I remember, in Helbreath, while mining, a mass spawning of lightning-shooting cyclopses would appear.
You\'d run like hell (have about 30% chance of surviving ;-) ), get a bunch of other miners together, and try to kill the twenty monsters.

Ah, yes, those were the days :]

I\'d love it, if we had monsters spawns near the mines in Planeshift.
But make them look nicer than just monsters appearing out of nothing!
How about having \'evil Kran\' suddenly \'growing\' out of the walls!

It sure would make mining more interesting!
« Last Edit: January 04, 2005, 11:32:12 am by Arzosah »

bbum

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« Reply #38 on: January 04, 2005, 11:44:54 am »
ah jorrit, i read your post wrong, i thought you wanted the max ore anyone can ever have at a time to be 20, this would be unrealistic compared to being able to hold more ore when less is in your inventory, and strenght changing how much you can carry.

jorrit

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« Reply #39 on: January 04, 2005, 12:04:34 pm »
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Originally posted by bbum
ah jorrit, i read your post wrong, i thought you wanted the max ore anyone can ever have at a time to be 20, this would be unrealistic compared to being able to hold more ore when less is in your inventory, and strenght changing how much you can carry.


You didn\'t read me wrong. In the future we will have a system where the total weight of what you are carrying will have a negative impact on various things (like speed and so on). And there will also be a max weight then. At the moment this it not easy to do yet so as a temporary solution we will adapt a maximum stack count per item. The idea behind that is roughly the same though but it is easier to implement right now.

Greetings,
Project Manager of Crystal Space, CEL, CrystalBlend and Crystal Core. Please support Crystal Space with a donation.

Zan

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« Reply #40 on: January 04, 2005, 12:07:27 pm »
I haven\'t read all posts so forgive me if I \'m repeating things anyone else said.

I don\'t see why mining needs to change though. I liked it just the way it was from the start.

The way I see it there are several kinds of people on planeshift. The people that want action and adventure and the people that want to set up a trade and become the best blacksmith or bowyer in town.
Mining is boring, it doesn\'t hold danger or adventure. You think real life mining is fun? .. I can assure you it \'s alot worse than game mining.

My point is though that not all ways to make money should have monsters or danger involved. If you want excitement go kill things for money .. if you want to earn a safe, be it boring living, go collect resources (and later on create items with these resources). That is why I completely disagree that mining should have monsters involved.
The minigame idea is kinda dumb in a game like this, no offence, but I \'d feel like I was playing a kids game with all kinds of minigames etc. There are minigames enough on the net to play if you prefer those I \'d say.

Mining is a safe way of earning money and that is what it should stay.
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Tyrnal Relhorn, Captain of the Vaalguard
Thromdir Shoake, Merchant
Giorn Kleaver, Miner.

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Arzosah

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« Reply #41 on: January 04, 2005, 12:11:11 pm »
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Originally posted by Zan
I haven\'t read all posts so forgive me if I \'m repeating things anyone else said.

I don\'t see why mining needs to change though. I liked it just the way it was from the start.

The way I see it there are several kinds of people on planeshift. The people that want action and adventure and the people that want to set up a trade and become the best blacksmith or bowyer in town.
Mining is boring, it doesn\'t hold danger or adventure. You think real life mining is fun? .. I can assure you it \'s alot worse than game mining.

My point is though that not all ways to make money should have monsters or danger involved. If you want excitement go kill things for money .. if you want to earn a safe, be it boring living, go collect resources (and later on create items with these resources). That is why I completely disagree that mining should have monsters involved.
The minigame idea is kinda dumb in a game like this, no offence, but I \'d feel like I was playing a kids game with all kinds of minigames etc. There are minigames enough on the net to play if you prefer those I \'d say.

Mining is a safe way of earning money and that is what it should stay.

I think that would make mining too easy...
I can agree to not having monsters in the mining spots near the cities, but there should definitely be monsters in the places where you can get really good ores.
This way, you\'d have to cooperate to survive, which stimulates interaction between players.

bbum

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« Reply #42 on: January 04, 2005, 12:52:02 pm »
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You didn\'t read me wrong. In the future we will have a system where the total weight of what you are carrying will have a negative impact on various things (like speed and so on). And there will also be a max weight then. At the moment this it not easy to do yet so as a temporary solution we will adapt a maximum stack count per item. The idea behind that is roughly the same though but it is easier to implement right now.


I\'m glad its temporary and that system you described sound\'s pretty cool :)

Monster\'s invloved with mining? How about a monster that walk up to a rock needed to be mine\'d for a quest every once in awhile? or having to avoid monsters while walking to a mining spot, or a big cave with ore and knowing theres a giant monster that walks around and you have to avoid it. How about a wolf that walks by the ore rocks some times. You know, so you have to keep an eye out. There shouldnt always be monsters involved with mining, there should be risk vs reward value though. You can go back to the ore rocks you know, or goto the cave with vast ammounts of ore youve heard about if your alittle more daring.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2005, 01:03:21 pm by bbum »

ramlambmoo

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« Reply #43 on: January 04, 2005, 02:17:45 pm »
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Originally posted by jorrit
Quote
Originally posted by bbum
ah jorrit, i read your post wrong, i thought you wanted the max ore anyone can ever have at a time to be 20, this would be unrealistic compared to being able to hold more ore when less is in your inventory, and strenght changing how much you can carry.


You didn\'t read me wrong. In the future we will have a system where the total weight of what you are carrying will have a negative impact on various things (like speed and so on). And there will also be a max weight then. At the moment this it not easy to do yet so as a temporary solution we will adapt a maximum stack count per item. The idea behind that is roughly the same though but it is easier to implement right now.

Greetings,


thats a bit silly, a max stack count, because you can just put new items into a new stack, so once you get 255 you just start a new stack.  imho i thought the 255 thing was because you couldnt be bothered changed the variable holding the number of items in a stack from 1 byte to a larger number....lol :P

jorrit

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« Reply #44 on: January 04, 2005, 02:21:45 pm »
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Originally posted by ramlambmoo
thats a bit silly, a max stack count, because you can just put new items into a new stack


No you can\'t. You can\'t start a new stack of the same item type.

Greetings,
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