Everyone hates mining. Right?

[ramlambmoo]

Originally posted by jorrit

Originally posted by ramlambmoo
thats a bit silly, a max stack count, because you can just put new items into a new stack

No you can\'t. You can\'t start a new stack of the same item type.

Greetings,

Yes you can.  I just did it then...  you do mean perhaps if you start another stack, when you pick up items / mine them they still go to the original stack?  Im definate you can start another stack, because ive been doing it all along now....  Unless thats been changed with an update in the last 24 hours.

EDIT****

geocities.com/ramlambmoo/shot09.jpg

screenshot of me with 3 platinum stacks.... i assume we must be talking about something different.

[jorrit]

Originally posted by ramlambmoo
Yes you can.  I just did it then...  you do mean perhaps if you start another stack, when you pick up items / mine them they still go to the original stack?  Im definate you can start another stack, because ive been doing it all along now....  Unless thats been changed with an update in the last 24 hours.

EDIT****

geocities.com/ramlambmoo/shot09.jpg

screenshot of me with 3 platinum stacks.... i assume we must be talking about something different.

Well then that\'s a bug and needs to be fixed.

Greetings,

[Zan]

Originally posted by Arzosah
I think that would make mining too easy...
I can agree to not having monsters in the mining spots near the cities, but there should definitely be monsters in the places where you can get really good ores.
This way, you\'d have to cooperate to survive, which stimulates interaction between players.

You have a point but I still think the mining spots themselves should be safe from monsters. However the roads you need to take to get there don\'t have to be. That way you still need some cooperation with strong characters to reach your mining spot. But you won\'t have to make things boring for the others because they don\'t need to hang around and slay occasional foes.

As for \"the really good ores\" well if you ask me the price of ores is very low., which is fine because else people would earn too much money with mining. So far platinum gives you 12 trias and I don\'t think they plan to put ores that \'ll make a bunch more than that in the game. Platinum sounds like one of the really good ores to me.

[Under the moon]

Mining is NOT a safe way to make a living.  Toxic fumes, dust, low O2, cave-ins, heat exhustion, etc.  The death rate is very high.  Especialy in medieval times.  In fact, it may be one of the most dangerous jobs in PS.  I just thought that the game should reflect this.

[Seytra]

As for the monsters vs. quality ore:
good ores will be found either
1) next to cities that have been established just because of the ore, so the mines would be reasonably safe from monsters, but there\'d be lots of miners so prices will be less, and also the transport routes will be less secure, since these cities usually are in the middle of nowhere with lots of danger around them, or
2) a good way from normal cities, so that the way to and from the mines will be somewhat safe due to the town, but nor absolutely safe, and also the mines are less used and thus there are chances that monsters occasionally enter them. Prices would be higher for ore due to the moderate danger and the smaller number of miners.

I also think that the toxic fumes and other things should be implemented. They would, in fact, be the perfect deterrent for bots. You are mining happily for hours on end, but suddenly you hit a crack containing toxic fumes. Your health will slowly fall, increasing in speed if you don\'t get out.

Also, when digging deep, oxygen may run low, let\'s say due to bad air circulation caused by winds changing or no wind at all. You\'ll get dizzy and tired, and if you don\'t get out, you\'ll die.

Cave-ins for even more excitement: they may
- happen far from you, so you\'ll hear them and maybe the way out might be blocked, forcing you to dig for your life (though in the closed area there shouldn\'t be any more bad effects until the way out is clear again),
- happen near you, covering you in dust, which reduces your sight and health due to the dust in your lungs, so you can die if you don\'t get out, or at least take some damage
- happen above you, possibly killing you.

Cave-ins need to announce themselves by strange sounds, like rumbles, small earthquakes, whatever.

Oh yeah, heat can accumulate if many miners are in the same place, the air gets sticky and health is reduced slowly but constantly, and endurance as well. At some point, you simply can\'T mine anymore, so either you get out to refresh yourself, or stay there staring at the rock that you\'re supposed to be mining.

I think that\'d make mining more exciting, at least it might make me do some mining occasionally.

Edit: combine these with a longer duration and proportional output for each /dig (which needs to be interruptible and yoield the appropriate amount of ore on the floor if interrupted), and the system would be very good IMO.

[Gcieror Taluc]

well i\'ve read most of the posts in this topic and i think that the best way to handle mining is a sort of mini-game where you will have to make you\'re own mine: you could start with a cave or just some flat ground or a little hill,.... and you\'ll need to start digging with equipment you buy from a player or NPC, these may be pickaxes, shuvels (don\'t know if you spell it this way),...  and you\'ll need wood to prevent cavins.
for the sort of ores: it depends on the location where you dig, and how deep you dig. also if you start digging deeper the risk of gasses, monsters that live in the ground will rise. but the higher you\'re mining lvl is the better you can notice these things and react on them.

this will make everything less boring, more realistic and hard to bot

[Silverthorne]

I suppose it\'s a good step to \'force\' players to actively move around now. Although i would still prefer seeing messages like this :

/dig for gold \"
\"You could not find any gold here\"
Move a bit to the left
/dig for gold\"
\"You\'ve found a MINOR vein of gold!!\"

[minor might mean only 3 or 4 ores can be mined before you have to move ]

/mine gold\"
\"You failed to mine any gold\"
/mine gold
\"You successfully mine an ore of gold\"

[amount you can mine in a single mining op can depend on
mining skill]

/mine gold
\"There does not seem to be any gold here\"

[gold depleted]

..and you move on to find another vein by doing a search and then mining.

Now of course this is bottable, assuming movement is bottable. Unless of course you replace the \"/search for gold\" with a visible \"sighting\". I doubt you can bot something you can only see on the screen [instead of text].

This will require gold deposits to \'spawn\' just like mobs [and randomly too]. I\'m sure you can restrict the spawning to a particular rock wall. So you have a situation that everyone will still go to mine at a particular place [i.e. magic shop] but if everyone is mining along the same rock wall the entire wall will \'run empty\' and then respawn after a some time. The Major/minor veins can spawn randomly along the rock wall.

In the end, it\'s similar to the \'can\'t dig here twice\' except for two main differences:

1. You can actually dig twice depending on the \'size\' of the deposit [i.e. 20 ores if it\'s a major vein, deposits also reset if someone only digged halfway and left]

2. Currently the \'no-twice\' system can be \'fooled\' by moving left and digging and then moving back to the right and digging at the original spot [so you just move left and right all the time = easily scriptable]. Spawn/depletion of ore will require a lot more movement than \'left-right\' which is pretty hard to bot i\'d say ESPECIALLY if there\'s other players using up \'dig-slots\' .

So even if you don\'t want to visibly show dig-spots and only use a type \"Search for gold first\" command then you will need a really good bot to move along an entire wall [and probably walk across the room to another wall eventually].

I agree with this idea and the last one.  The thing that most people do not think about is that there are different types of gamers. I like to settle down with a game that allows me to go out and mine for hours, to get the stuff needed to make a sword.  Or go out and chop lumber then craft it into planks for making things out of.  I know that my type of gaming is not for everyone.  But I like it that way.  If a monster randomly wanders up, then I have to deal with it.  Not have to expect monsters to wander up because I am mining.  Or cutting lumber.  Both acts make noise and would scare off normal animals.

[Darakus]

Originally posted by jorrit

Originally posted by ramlambmoo
Yes you can.  I just did it then...  you do mean perhaps if you start another stack, when you pick up items / mine them they still go to the original stack?  Im definate you can start another stack, because ive been doing it all along now....  Unless thats been changed with an update in the last 24 hours.

EDIT****

geocities.com/ramlambmoo/shot09.jpg

screenshot of me with 3 platinum stacks.... i assume we must be talking about something different.

Well then that\'s a bug and needs to be fixed.

Greetings,

This is kind of funny, because if the stack is limited to 255, and there are weight limitations on characters that will be implemented, what is the point of forcing people to move to prevent bots after all 255 is less than an hour of play before the bot would be stopped because it\'s stack was full ).

Furthermore if you had no stack limitation the bot could injure himself or be unable to move due to the weight collected thus forcing him to discard mined material to correct the situation which would make it obsolete sort of (or at least not give him an advantage compared to a real miner who could collect the discarded items ).

Regards,

[Seytra]

The stack limit is a temporary solution, used until the weight restrictions are in place, IIRC.

[Slagle]

IF ITS BORING...DONT DO IT! GOOD IDEA? NO?

lol, if we did actually have mines in PS, there would be holes EVERYWERE. No1 could move without falling to there death lol.

IM SO NEWB, I DIDNT KNOW U COULD MINE TILL ABOUT AN HOUR AGO. AND DIDNT KNOW HOW TILL NOW. ROFL

[Aravi]

I like the idea of underground mining with possible hazards.

The potential hazards could be tied to mining, and the chance of them happening (and the harm they may inflict) should be less to an experienced miner than to an inexperienced one.

You could have a \'newbie mine\', basically an old mineshaft that storyline-wise was abandoned because the richer ore had already been mined. Lower quality ore can still be obtained, and it provides a good \'practice ground\' for Miners. Other mines may be more hazardous, with less stable supports and pockets of gas - experienced miners will be able to mine without disturbing the structure and may be able to detect the gas before they reach it.

In addition, mining skill should also represent the ability to scope an area out (determine what ores are present in the area, and give a reasonable idea how structurally sound it is).

[glenduil]

Another idea for mining:
The mining skill should be easier to learn in the beginning. It is easy to learn the basics but it will get harder to advance in skill if you get higher.
That will make it somewhat more realistic too.

[Ghen]

I like a lot of these ideas, especially the idea of monsters in the mining areas - at least the underground ones.  After all, shouldn\'t most mining be in the stone labaryinths - lots of monsters there.

Other than that I think that there should be some small amount of experiance gained with successfully mining.  After all how does killing rats or other monsters help you get better at mining.  You should be able to get better at mining by mining.

[Aravi]

I wouldn\'t expect much mining in a stone labyrinth really, it\'s a man-made structure made of specially cut and prepared stone.

You\'re far more likely to find your ores and what-not elsewhere. You\'re also likely to annoy the people who built or maintain the labyrinth by carving chunks out of their precious walls.

And regarding monsters in the mines - only a few mines should have them (precious and/or purer ores, maybe gems and crystals of various types and alchemical uses), they should be old, abandoned mineshafts that have since been claimed as a home by other creatures. Other mines shouldn\'t have such issues (although, there are other ways to add danger to mining - see my post above for an example).

[Entamis]

Only partially, Aravi. The website says it\'s \"a complex of both natural and artificial caves\". I\'d expect some old abandoned mines to be located there.