guns (hear me out)

[Erinys]

Originally posted by Hatchnet

Originally posted by Black_rose

Did I read you right? Modern guns have a hard time penetrating plate armour and you think a medieval one wouldn\'t? Did you the know that the captain of the U.S.S. Constitution (Old Ironsides) was wearing a full suit of plate during that famous battle? And that he was struck by no less than nine bullets during the battle? They were at boarding range for crying out loud you don\'t get any closer than that during a sea battle; it could not have been more than 80 ft from the deck rail of one ship the opposit rail of the other and not one of those bullets penetrated the armour.

well only the armour of that time, plate armour was cancelled due to it\'s inabillity to withstand guns. the reason why bows dissapeard was guns having the ability to take out knights when a bow could not.

You have no idea what your talking about.

There was an arrow head that was the equivilent of a modern armour piercing bullet that when used with a long bow could take out a knight on horseback at well over a hundred yards.

Early firearms were just like eary crossbows inacurate and you could not hit squat at a hundred yards.

During the 18th century they were still makeing armour in the same way they had been doing for the three previous centurys.

Early firearms had little penetration power due to the round amunition they would not penetrate chain much less plate.

The reason why guns replaced bows? Well which was cheaper a trained archer or a man with a gun.

Why did armour fall out of use? Seriously would you pay for the armour to protect a soldier when you can just conscript another one and hand him a gun?

Back to econamy: Which is cheaper to transport the amunition for a riffle or the amunition for a bow?

Seige enginers were use wearing plate armour for protection  from small arms fire as late as the 18hundreds .
there that should be enough for now.

I want to add to this with referring to the battle of Coutrai (beaten knights with plain Infantry), the battle of Cr?cy (beaten knights with longbows) and another battle I forgot the name of (beaten knights with Swiss pikemen)
And the cavalry remained valuable against the guns untill early in the 20th century.

[Black_rose]

well that is what i got from the documentry,

damn my misinterpratations, well it could still take out most horses easily, or flying ptresaurs or whatever........

[Darakus]

I still want black powder however because no Black powder no fireworks and Laanx know mages like me love pyrotechnics

[Zan]

The generalizations made here about firearms vs bows penetrating armor are pretty amusing.  
Someone said that guns can\'t even penetrate armor now .. though there are handguns capable of penetrating the entire engineblock of a truck. That isn\'t even talking about sniper rifles where some can penetrate armored vehicles and even tanks.

Thing is back in that time firearms were in their baby years, where while bows already had a whole history of perfection behind it.
The bullet of a gun being round did have major drawbacks on penetration capabilities of firearms. Nonetheless the impact of being hit by a bullet was alot stronger than that of an arrow. Even without penetration a decent flintliock\'s ball would have left a serious dent and likely knocked the target off its feet with a massive bruise and possibly some broken ribs. Another advantage was that with guns you could aim straight at a target over a much longer distance, where with bows you need to shoot your arrow at an angle to cover a decent length. This makes guns alot easier to use.

If guns come into the game they should be very early prototypes with very limited strength. Slow in use, high chance of failure and even a risk to blow up in your face.

[PlaneWalker]

Just like medieval guns.

1 shot, 1 reload.
Pro: Moderate accuracy, low skill requirement, long ranged.  Decent damage.
Con: high chance of equipment failure, slow reloading time.  Weak against armor.

[dimaq]

let me add some black powder to the fire...

Originally posted by Darakus
Guns hmmm ...  not my thing although with Alchemy black powder could probably be made fairly easily (coal, salpeter and sulphur) which would make for Canons, Grenades and perhaps some muskets but you\'d need to convince smiths that they want to forge that kind of objects which you could since dwarves would see the mining interest of powder.

Although if I had my way I\'d definitely develop Catapults

how are you gonna make black powder out of platinum, gold and iron ores? ))

[dimaq]

Originally posted by Black_rose
true fifteenth century guns, the way i see it is they would be effective anti armor weapons for armor that a bow can\'t really puncture,

my understanding is medieval crossbows (the larger, wind-up kind) could get through any body armour.

then again perhaps we don\'t want PS all that realistic, do we?
realistic weapons? realistic armour? realistic blood? realistic deaths?
like do we want death that lead to permanent termination of the game?

in short this conversation is damn pointless, and I\'m ashamed of contributing to it!

[Darakus]

Originally posted by dimaq
let me add some black powder to the fire...

Originally posted by Darakus
Guns hmmm ...  not my thing although with Alchemy black powder could probably be made fairly easily (coal, salpeter and sulphur) which would make for Canons, Grenades and perhaps some muskets but you\'d need to convince smiths that they want to forge that kind of objects which you could since dwarves would see the mining interest of powder.

Although if I had my way I\'d definitely develop Catapults

how are you gonna make black powder out of platinum, gold and iron ores? ))

There is already coal in the game so we only need sulfur and brimstone (sorry for the salpeter it was a bad translation I forgot to check)

[Black_rose]

see, it is all doable and it fits in.....

[Karyuu]

But guns aren\'t fantasy. No matter how primitive, guns are associated more with sci-fi. Planeshift is not :P

[Kixie]

Originally posted by Karyuu
But guns aren\'t fantasy. No matter how primitive, guns are associated more with sci-fi. Planeshift is not

Actually I slightly dissagree. There are cannons in fantasy, and these guns described as hand cannons really. I think that while it\'s not for PS, it\'s home in a fantasy setting.

[Slagle]

THERES ALWAYS SOMEONE WHO WANTS A GUN...GOOD GOD....LETS JUST STICK TO SWORDS AND BOWS

[Darakus]

What would gobbles be without their mad inventors and a powder keg or two  Of course they could also have shamans

[Draklar]

Originally posted by Karyuu
But guns aren\'t fantasy. No matter how primitive, guns are associated more with sci-fi. Planeshift is not

Alchemists are often connected with making gun powder...

Anyway, yeah, guns were made to improve the weaponry. But who would try to improve such uncertain category of weapons when you can bring much more destruction by summoning a fireball?
Oh yea, some people forgot how much easier it is to come across magic in PS than irl, haven\'t they? 8o :rolleyes:

- Swords

[Spazztic2003]

i dont like the whole guns idea.  yeah sure, maybe they had em at that time, but i think the devs would place firearms in the wrong perspective and make them a little too strong.  the only rpg that made good with guns was vampire: the masquerade.  but if i were developing the game, id stick with steel and magic >=)