Author Topic: The "Power Levelers"  (Read 6450 times)

pacyfikator

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« Reply #30 on: January 22, 2005, 05:31:19 pm »
What is actiolly so bad in power lvlers?

They cant do any harm if you want just to rp- you dont race them afterall do you?

I dodn see any conflict exept your whining and being envy for someones \"strength\" .

If you dont want to exp just DONT.


By the way developing you char and teamplay to get something(exp ,loot) is good way to create community.

Explain me why you dont want other players to focus on this , just as you focus on rp?
« Last Edit: January 22, 2005, 05:35:44 pm by pacyfikator »
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Denivi

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« Reply #31 on: January 22, 2005, 09:49:38 pm »
Powerplayers is a tricky subject, pacy... there are many types, and sooner or later *everyone* will fall into someone else\'s definition.

For those who are worried, I\'m probably one of these PPs at the moment - the game is Beta, so I\'m doing my best to test various boundaries. Pick a skill, max it, and map how it behaves along the way, see when it works and when it doesn\'t, and what side effects (good or bad) are produced. This is beta, after all, and this is our actual job - not playing for fun, unless you are assessing the fun\'s viability.  In short, do not get too alarmed at anything yet - the game is nowhere near being in production, and raising bounding issues as \"impacting the quality of the beta\'s gameplay\" is nowhere near appropriate... there is no gameplay yet.  When the game nears leaving beta, that\'s another issue... and you\'ll be completely correct - but not yet. Boundaries must be examined, now, while we can.

I\'ve read some interesting suggestions on how to combat the PP issue, and I have a few comments on what I\'ve seen.

a) Do not mix issues. Leet speak has nothing to do with power levelers, for example. One bird, one stone.

b) Define your issues carefully. Half of the posts state a problem with people maxing a stat in 20 minutes, for example. Then they discuss the problem from the perspective that the maxed_stat is the issue, not the rate in which it was achieved.  All of this, when in fact neither are the issue, but are actually symptoms - the poster\'s actual issue is a concern about the game becoming a competitive (and possibly monopolized) goal-oriented system, e.g. EverCamp and EBayQuest.

There\'s a few things to consider as you guys evolve a solution - and I\'m confident you will. However, bear the following in mind:

\"Snapshot\" mentality.  My toon is maxed on several skills, and did so over a relatively short time via massive grinding.  A few other toons have similar stats - and did so over a long period using more traditional methods.  From a snapshot perspective, though, the two toons are identical... walk the data, and only the names are different and neither has an advantage over the other.   You need to remember this before suggesting \"cap\" based solutions... the real issue is invariably twinking of some sort, and caps will not resolve this.

\"Everybody plays like I do\" mentality.  I love these games for their social aspect (grouping), but am generally screwed by real life.  If a fire alarm / car wreck / whatever comes in, I have to go, literally \"bye\"... and it directly impacts my options when playing.  You won\'t, for example, find me committing to a large, long term \"group\" - it isn\'t fair to them since my leaving will suddenly make them non-viable, and quite frankly I don\'t want to log off my toon in the middle of the worst dungeons in the game.  Instead, I\'m primarily going to be solo, or in non-comitted \"easy-out\" sorties where leaving won\'t screw the group.

And therein lies the problem - I want to experience those areas. And to do so, I\'m going to need to do it mostly solo... and thus far, all of the ideas I\'ve seen will directly impact my ability to do so. And as a side note, I will *not* be brought along as a charity case. I want to contribute, and deserve my place.

I\'m hardly unique in this respect, nor this situation - the casual player has a window of when they are available to play, the only difference being that the \"I have to go\" near the end of that window is usually predictable, and usually has some measure of leeway.  That my window is unilaterally terminated by an asynchronous pager-beeping simply means I can serve as a general case... my playing-window might be 5 hours or might be 5 minutes, and I do not know which.  Either way, I have to remain viable to my peers in the game, regardless of my window size. Otherwise, I cannot play with them... which is the whole point of playing in the first place.

The shorter the playing window, the more goal-oriented the player must be in order to participate in the social aspects of grouping.  \"Our guild is going here next week!\" \"Oh, I can\'t even hit those things. I won\'t be able to contribute unless I skill up.\"  Also notice that the quantity of windows is irrelevent; 10 hours in a single window compared to 10 hours over 20 30-minute windows, you all know which player won\'t be grouped, nor be doing anything of merit.  In every game I\'ve played thus far, every solution meant to check the big-window players has completely screwed the small-window players... the result being an even bigger polarization between the two.  You have to remember - a big-window player has the option of playing in small window timeframes when it\'s needed for a goal, and still retains a big window once that goal is complete. A small-window player only gets... small windows. Then come the rare day when the small-window player actually has a large window to play... well, most of the solutions offered thus far would make it a moot experience.

One thought I did have (they\'re rare), though, is training.  Right now, it\'s done by NPCs.  And several have raised issue with \"power levelers\"... they damage and impede the social nature of the game.   Hmmm.  Perhaps introduce a social aspect to training...?  Train off of other players, and perhaps not allow the same person (or people) to rank you repeatedly, or something.  Rapid training would still be possible, but doing so would require a larger social circle which has the option of ignoring you.  Done wrongly, it\'ll have no impact - but if done right, it could be like nails on a chalkboard to the people you wish to avoid, and could act as an attritional method of removing the anti-social types.

Ah well, it\'s a good topic and a great challenge - see ya\'all in game.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2005, 09:51:03 pm by Denivi »

dragonfire999

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« Reply #32 on: January 22, 2005, 10:04:13 pm »
i admit, i am somewhat a power leveler :/
i own all the weapons i can use and maxed out in all fighting classes available
but i also do a lot of rp\'ing.
i just train so high to be able to defend and gamble

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Efflixi Aduro

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« Reply #33 on: January 22, 2005, 10:39:43 pm »
Most of the neer peopl seem to be defending Power leveling. You guys don\'t understand. Its like running out on the street naked. You dont do it. Its just commen sense. And if you want to do that you join a nudist colony (in this case another game).  You may not be bothering us but the REAL ps players would rather have RAL RPer\'s waste the servers bandwidth instead of people who \"dont do anything\"
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Karyuu

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« Reply #34 on: January 22, 2005, 10:51:03 pm »
I don\'t think you have the right to determine who a \"real\" PSer is, Aduro...

It has been stated several times that powerlevelers don\'t actually harm anyone if they mind their own business - you will not be able to make them leave just because they don\'t roleplay. If there is no flooding of OOC chat, if there is no continual duel invites or PKing, on what basis will you throw these people out? That they don\'t meet in the tavern too often?

If this is the way it\'s going to be, then perhaps before being allowed to load the game a player will have to sign a \"Roleplaying Agreement,\" the breaking of which will result in an account deletion? And who is going to go around judging who roleplays or who doesn\'t, or what is the \"real\" acceptable way?

1) Get rid of numbers in the chat.
2) Try to roleplay with those who don\'t seem to get it.
3) Report to a GM if situation gets out of hand.

What is so difficult to grasp?

Not only that, but many people have raised great points here that one of our jobs is to test the system, which -means- pushing characters to their limits.

Maybe someone should define the term \"Power Leveler\" before we get any further?
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Efflixi Aduro

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« Reply #35 on: January 22, 2005, 10:53:55 pm »
I never said Im the one choosing who are the real ps players.
If ou dont see a problem in this then good for you, but, I do and Im going to fight for my point just like you are for yours.

EDIT My defintion of a powr levveler.
Does not RP. Does not group up. Only fights alone. Does not want to be talked to. Makes a guild with no story or anything. Name is Swiftassasin, Metallica, Blood Killer, or somthing along those lines. Will PK people if they bother him/her by asking qustions like \"Will you please help me?\".

I have said it before and Ill say it again. I am not against people who are strong. But I am against people like that ^^^
Now, about the real players. I would rather have somone that Rp\'s is active in a guild. And is quite strong instead of somone who doesnt talk and runs around killing everything in site.

MMORPGS arn\'t 1-player games.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2005, 10:59:47 pm by Efflixi Aduro »
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Moogie

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« Reply #36 on: January 22, 2005, 10:57:13 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by pacyfikator
What is actiolly so bad in power lvlers?

They cant do any harm if you want just to rp- you dont race them afterall do you?

I dodn see any conflict exept your whining and being envy for someones \"strength\" .

If you dont want to exp just DONT.


By the way developing you char and teamplay to get something(exp ,loot) is good way to create community.

Explain me why you dont want other players to focus on this , just as you focus on rp?



The game is a roleplaying game. The focus is on RP. People who don\'t roleplay DO harm the game. Seeing people speaking totally out-of-character makes newcomers act the same, and before long, nobody in the game roleplays- it turns into another nasty little pleveler/leet-speaker heaven.

Is also ruins other people\'s roleplaying experiences, seeing people running around talking about how they need 90 Str to use a sword and that they have 50 PP to spend and asking what NPC trainers can teach them beyond level 20. No, no, no. That belongs in the Help channel. It belongs in (ooc brackets like this). It does not belong as a normal part of speech that you hear all the time on the streets.

Is it selfish to ask RP to be enforced? Not in this game. But it IS selfish to ask us not to enforce it, because unless Talad has changed the ideals he has had for the past 4 years, this game is RP enforced and it always will be. If you don\'t like it, play something else, or start writing your character histories and practicing your medieval speech.

Exaero_Fiero

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« Reply #37 on: January 22, 2005, 11:38:39 pm »
Syn gentle Moogie axed everichon to dighten oure tongue, I shall gyen iche on of you. Even maugree of my lack of knowlege of it.

:D

http://www.courses.fas.harvard.edu/~chaucer/pronunciation/
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=english&x=20&y=22
« Last Edit: January 22, 2005, 11:39:14 pm by Exaero_Fiero »
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pacyfikator

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« Reply #38 on: January 22, 2005, 11:52:25 pm »
As someone already wrote - first thing is that we need to define \"Power levleling\".

I understood it is a player who focuss on getting exp or skills and tak to players ocassionally or when need to team / with a guild.

Moogie you seem to make Plvler = to one that ask question /speak about technical part of game.
Those are mostly newcommers that HAVE TO ask those questions in order to start, as they are not answered in manual and they(players) are too \"newbs\" to even know about forum.

Besides there have to be something to be acheved in game otherwise it would be chat.

Plaing your character is additional thing connected with developing its stats, but not the only one!

On the other hand i understand that noncharacter speach spam might ruin RP fun (that has not much to do with p lvl in my opinion).

I saw a nice solution for this in another game.
There was a trade chat and a NON-RP chat made for players who dont RP.

It would solve problem with general chat channels.
Additonally players might have option to ignore someone - that would hide anything is said by ignored person.

Any ideas for restricting on exp or so are in my opinion.

**i would apreatiate if you correct my english - im still learning**
« Last Edit: January 22, 2005, 11:54:35 pm by pacyfikator »
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Karyuu

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« Reply #39 on: January 23, 2005, 12:02:36 am »
Quote
Originally posted by Efflixi Aduro
I never said Im the one choosing who are the real ps players.

Quote
Originally posted by Efflixi Aduro
You may not be bothering us but the REAL ps players would rather have RAL RPer\'s waste the servers bandwidth instead of people who \"dont do anything\"




Anyway. Let me get this straight. A player who will mind his own business, rarely talk to others and does so decently without anything that screams OOC, will be shunned and perhaps even kicked off?

We seem to have a real fuzzy line between acceptable and unacceptable behavior. I suggest we sharpen that up before taking any actions.
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Smith: No, My Lord. I am attempting to conceal it.

Efflixi Aduro

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« Reply #40 on: January 23, 2005, 12:12:09 am »
You know damn well the type of people im talking about so stop pissing me off. Im usually very calm and nice but ur getting on my last nerve. Stop bveing a smartass unless you want all these dumbasses infecting the community.
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swift

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« Reply #41 on: January 23, 2005, 12:32:34 am »
I think that the fatigue system will help prevent powerlevelers - but I am not saying that it will stop the \"leet speak\" and anti-social behaviour that goes along with it.  

How I think fatigue should stop powerleveling is this:

Leet Drklord goes out intending to powerlevel his way to level 60 in sword.  

He kills about 20 rats, then starts to feel tired.  He now takes longer to kill a rat, inflicting less damage and taking more hits (due to leaving more openings, not blocking right, etc).  

His fatigue meter now shows 10%.  He is now panting heavily, aching all over, hitting slowly and just about being eaten alive.  With a comment of \"Rp-ing suxors\" he resolves to keep fighting.  When his fatigue meter reaches zero he collapses.  Nearby roleplayers decide to save him from being eaten alive and carry him of to an inn.  To replenish his fatigue meter he must eat and drink, then rent a room at the inn.  There is a player musician playing in the inn.  The roleplayers give him small tips, a few tria.  Leet Drklord refused to give the poor guy a single tria.  Because of this, the inkeeper throws him out of the inn.  Until he behaves courteously he cannot get his food , drink and proper sleep and so gets sick, loosing hits slowly.  

He gives in and rests several nights in town to replenish his energy.  He can then go back to killing more rats, and will have hopefully realised that powerleveling in this game can\'t be done, and he would have more fun if he joined a group and made some friends.  

(Finally I\'m finished !)
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Karyuu

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« Reply #42 on: January 23, 2005, 12:41:47 am »
Quote
Originally posted by Efflixi Aduro
Stop bveing a smartass unless you want all these dumbasses infecting the community.


You don\'t seem to quite get my point :\\ Please calm down and try to understand what kind of people -I- am talking about.

I don\'t see people who \"solo\" without disturbing behavior as dumbasses. What seems to be the main problem currently is people who talk OOC, around topics such as stats, or random duels, or the general craziness of numbers. This is the problem. A guy killing rats repeatedly until he maxes out his fighting skill isn\'t the issue, so it\'s not \"powerlevelers\" that are bothering you but the OOC aspect of many people\'s conversations.

A powerleveler is not always associated with OOC talk and 1337 speak. They are two different issues.
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Chewy gumbal

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« Reply #43 on: January 23, 2005, 01:19:26 am »
My definition of a power leveler is someone who train alot, therefore has high skills.  I don\'t have a problem with people who train alot (or have high skills), as long as they do not interfere with the playing environment, by braging, stealing kills, hoging all the monster ect.

You have to define roleplaying too because people have different opinions on what that means aswell. Some people might think that if you have to roleplay all the time it won\'t be fun, which is the case sometimes because no one wants to roleplay all the time. While roleplaying can be fun and funny, somepeople take it too far. Roleplaying in my books is when some one creats a charcter and then pretends to be them, saying things that they would say - not neccesarily using another language (and yes, ye olde english is another language) - , doing things that they would do.

Power levelers aren\'t the real problem here, I think.  It is that   people don\'t roleplay, causing the game\'s medival/ magical environment to be destroyed. Atleast brought closer to reality, which isn\'t the point of a FANTASY game.

I see that people got my point, which I didn\'t really explain as much as I should have in my last post, about the game not being finished. I agree that right now we shouldn\'t be complaining about power levelers. We should however be coming up with ways to deal with them, as well as with how we will deal with people who don\'t roleplay for the final version, or closer to the time when the game will be officialy completed. I liked the idea about having a separate chat channel for roleplaying and normal talking, infact that is almost the same way it is set up now. It would be simple to impliment that, I  might be wrong on this as I\'m not a programmer but it is logical, atl east to my mind, that is it almost as simple as copy and paste.

I am a noob to PlaneShift so I don\'t have any clue as to how most things in this game work, but if it is anything like the other MMORPGs I\'ve played, excluding the unfinished state and this one being without annoying high level people harrasing you. I am having a very difficult time learning this game compared to other ones, whether that is because my machine isn\'t at the minimum req\'s ( I\'m working on that), or because of all the bugs, or just because it has a high learning curve, it stands to reason that other people will have a hard time learning it too. In which case they will not know about the roleplaying aspect, or not think that it is as important as most of you people want it to be, so they will ask for help without roleplaying. If that bothers you than I believe you need to work on you \"accepting others for who they are\" skills. If, however, they are asking for \"help\", as in \"How can I train the fastest?\" that shouldn\'t be tolerated.




EDIT - Please someone tell eveyone what OOC and 1337 mean as I don\'t think I would do a good job at doing that.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2005, 01:23:24 am by Chewy gumbal »
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Efflixi Aduro

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« Reply #44 on: January 23, 2005, 01:23:51 am »
Eh sorry for losing my cool. I was really pissed at a friend and I let out some misplaced anger.

I agree that OOC people and 1337 people ar the main problem but almost all of them are power levelers so, ya. Now that we know the type of popele we are talking about, what can be done to stop them?

Ima go in game and police around a little. I wanna see peoples reactions when I try to correct them. Ill be taking down names too so watch out 1337 ppl here I come ;)
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