Author Topic: Current Economy  (Read 1543 times)

Zan

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Current Economy
« on: February 02, 2005, 08:12:24 pm »
I realize there have been many threads on this before but until this recent update I haven\'t really had a problem with getting my hands on some tria. Now that mining has been made even harder I really hope there will be alternative sources for money soon.

Simply giving the many monsters some loot that is worth something would already be a great step in the right direction.

It is just that right now I notice an imbalance between trias and experience. I have more progression points than I can pay for to train. Logically you are supposed to get more money than experience since you \'d also need to buy some equipment.
Zan Drithor, Member of the Vaalnor Council
Tyrnal Relhorn, Captain of the Vaalguard
Thromdir Shoake, Merchant
Giorn Kleaver, Miner.

Grayne Dholm, Follower of Dakkru

dragonfire999

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« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2005, 08:56:43 pm »
erm i have too much money and not enough pp :P

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Kixie

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« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2005, 09:03:00 pm »
I predict that the killing and looting will pay as much as it does now. That is because once jobs are implemented, money will flow in alot quicker. Theres no reason to change the price of looting for CB, especially since most people have either made a ton of money from crystal transfer and if you don\'t have money from it then those people will most likely donate to you if your low on your luck.

RainyShadow

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« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2005, 10:52:25 pm »
1. I haven\'t played MB, but I\'d like to see \"Crystal Hunt\" in CB, and for sure i\'m not the only one wishing this.
Any devs interested ?

2. Currently new-starters are bound to endless rat killing  unless they got lucky to find some donators or lost items to get some starting cash ( i found a longsword on a corner and the trias i got by selling it were of great help )
So, give at least 100 trias to new chars, so they can dive faster in the game, before they got bored enough to quit  without seeing what is to be a Hydlaa citizen.

That\'s all from me so far. I leave thinking to you.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2005, 10:53:38 pm by RainyShadow »

Kaseijin

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« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2005, 11:50:47 pm »
here\'s suggestion if you have tons of money don\'t GIVE the money to them(the new people)...that is NICE thing yes....but it\'s also very boring. Planeshift is a game.. so play around... give them a quest. It may be some rat killing....but wrap in nice story....you need rat hide for new armor or rat eyes for a  potion you\'re making. Naturally once they bring you the rat hide/eye pay them more maybe some 20 gold per hide.
i actually play planeshift

Diamondcite

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« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2005, 12:08:36 am »
That actually sounds very viable :)

If they are made to do mini quests that is... though they might mistaken you for a next generation NPC if you do it too often :D
« Last Edit: February 03, 2005, 12:09:24 am by Diamondcite »
I like taking things literally, going overboard is fun! Now... why do I keep getting odd looks?

Denivi

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« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2005, 04:36:01 am »
(cough) That all sounds nice and all, but right now... I have a couple thousand PPs and zero cash, thanks to glyphs costing $2k, one single rank in casting being $600, and a 10 stack limit on any item... which, coincidentally, directly results in a 5-fold increase in non-productive travel time.

Mining as an income source is simply not viable as currently implemented.  Between failure rates, stack limits, and \"run times\" to sell and get back... well, you\'re an idiot if you persue it as anything other than a massive timesink while playing SubSpace or something. Personally, I\'d think you\'d have better fun with a ChiaPet... at least it would provide a faster sense of motion or progress.

With Tefs being the best stack-value I\'ve found so far, that\'s $160 per haul. Time spent gathering at the arena is (if you\'re alone) 2 or 3 minutes. If the Tefs are shared, it may be up to 6 minutes.  Run time to the merch and back will be another 5.  Basically, Arena tefs are good for about 22 tria per minute, in the better case. 18 tria per minute, average.

Wildland tefs are worse, since the run to & from is 11 minutes or so. The kill rate averages about 3 per minute, +/-.  Need 10 to fill a stack, so... that\'s 3 minutes of farming, followed by an 11 minute run to/from the merch.  14 minutes per haul, that\'s about 11 tria per minute. Travel times can be cut down in all cases by using /spawn, but that\'s technically an exploit and defeats the game\'s intent. I used to be able to gather about $800 tria in well under half an hour with plenty of time for chatter and play, which made studying a skill progression somewhat trivial while playing. Now, we\'re looking at about 70 minutes... and I will *not* be in a pleasant mood while doing it, since I cannot easily type to people without my toon stopping dead in it\'s tracks. It\'s probably for the best anyway, since what I\'d have to say would not be very appropriate.

Rats won\'t be any better; I suspect they\'ll be worse unless /spawn is abused, since run times and mob competition are significant.  You can easily nail the rats who\'ve fallen off the world, but that assumes you\'ve got the rank (and cash to achieve that rank) to pull it off, and also assumes that noone else has thought of it. After this post, you can assume that they have.

Abuse yields an interesting result, however:  Scroll farming.  Best time on scrolls is 100 in about 17:30, with heavy use of keyboard shortcuts and /spawn.  28 seconds to fetch 10 scrolls depending on server load and network latency, then a little over a minute spent on selling and returning.  That\'s 22 tria per minute with the least effort, but you must ignore the constant /duel spam. If you found it interesting that the temple has become so popular as of late, now you\'ll know why... and it aint because they\'ve all found Jesus.

So, we\'ll pick a ballpark of the best case, which is about 20 tria per minute.  One glyph costs $2000 - that\'s 100 minutes with no interruptions, no mob contentions, just non-stop, mash keys and go... don\'t stop, don\'t walk, don\'t talk.  The bulk of the time will be spent running (or waiting for /spawn)... which is odd for a \"social\" game, since the game does not allow you to chat while running unless you perform various gymnastics with your mouse.

This would probably be great if there were other sources of income, though, but there aren\'t any. I\'d very much like to have all the glyphs, I\'d very much like to step through the various ranks in each \"way\", and I\'d very much like to see how they work (or not), so that the spell/rank behavior can be evaluated. Dumb things like DOTs that reset the mob\'s health when they complete, DDs that suck additional manna as \"power\" is increased with no actual benefit, things like these need a pile of cash to discover and map. And right now, it aint gonna happen, because even the most simple bounds checking is like having your teeth drilled. Tell me if some idiot would be dumb enough to study if training strength actually has an impact on anything. Or \"int\", or \"will\" or anything else for that matter... what retard would bother spending three days to pump a skill fully green, only to discover it isn\'t implemented yet. \"Body\", for example.

The game is early beta. This is not the time to start retarding the economy, especially when every freakin thing that needs evaluation requires cash.

RainyShadow

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« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2005, 05:05:39 am »
Quote
Originally posted by Kaseijin
here\'s suggestion if you have tons of money don\'t GIVE the money to them(the new people)...that is NICE thing yes....but it\'s also very boring. Planeshift is a game.. so play around... give them a quest. It may be some rat killing....but wrap in nice story....you need rat hide for new armor or rat eyes for a  potion you\'re making. Naturally once they bring you the rat hide/eye pay them more maybe some 20 gold per hide.



I meaned new characters to be \"born\" with some possesions, i didn\'t meant someone to give them the money

;)

Zan

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« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2005, 04:26:17 pm »
People who had a transfer from MB are the only ones who have an abundance of cash. Many people, including myself, never collected crystals though and they are experiencing a very hard time getting money and like someone said people spend more time running around than anything else now which doesn\'t really add to the gameplay.
Zan Drithor, Member of the Vaalnor Council
Tyrnal Relhorn, Captain of the Vaalguard
Thromdir Shoake, Merchant
Giorn Kleaver, Miner.

Grayne Dholm, Follower of Dakkru

Gilibran

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« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2005, 05:51:56 pm »
I agree, i know it will change in the future, well i sincerely hope so. At the moment i have time enough as i\'m in between jobs and working on and off untill i find a steady job. When that happens i won\'t be able to play for hours and spend a day getting enough trias to skill up to a decent degree. I will have to stick to the evenings and get perhaps a max of 4 hours gameplay. Now if i have to spend those four hours every evening for several weeks in a row running around frantically to skill up because everytime when i\'m somewhere to get a quest done and can\'t avoid the monsters and get my ass kicked. Well my eagerness to play will cool down pretty quick i\'m afraid.

That said i do think that earning money should not be a light thing and that you surely must invest some time to it in seriousness. But at the moment it\'s just to hard to get anywhere. At the moment i don\'t care that much my character is relativly strong and i\'m not actively upgrading him at the moment and i\'m addicted. But for the newcomers, well i think they will have to be of very strong will and determination to keep playing with so little room for improvement at the moment.

off course we must also not forget that we all suffer from a severe case of goldfever  :D

DepthBlade

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« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2005, 08:55:53 pm »
Right now I wouldn\'t even give PlaneShift the credit for a real economy, wait until later in the game for that.

Zan

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« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2005, 09:54:07 pm »
I definitely agree that money should be earned and not just found on the ground or whatever .. but I just think this is still a game and as Gilibran said, not everyone can spare that much time playing it. So I would just like to see some bigger rewards for all the effort people put into earning money now.

I \'ve also heard that crafting is going to be implemented soon and I think that might provide a wide array of jobs and shut me and my whining up :P

And well real economy or not .. there is a currency which automatically creates an economy.
Zan Drithor, Member of the Vaalnor Council
Tyrnal Relhorn, Captain of the Vaalguard
Thromdir Shoake, Merchant
Giorn Kleaver, Miner.

Grayne Dholm, Follower of Dakkru

dimaq

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« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2005, 11:17:37 pm »
You\'ve touched an interesting subject, that is World Economy - in game that is, not your personal economy, but more like, at large...

currently you can get resources - namely ore, hides, teeth and occasional short sword - and have them magically converted into money, and then have money magically converted into items. all at a fixed price.

what does this regulation lead to? well in short, virtually no trade between the players. and thus the only way to economic success of a player is a cycle like this: get a bit of start-up money, invest into making more money, get that money, invest and so on. whether is it with mining (get better pick and some training), or fighting (get a decent sword and level up).

my point is that it doesn\'t really have to be like this, and what\'s more the game could support a more... interesting model - as soon as regular players can manufacture items in the game, or traing each other, or give out quests to each other... there still need to be some resource sinks, although I dare the devs to come up with something more imaginative than npc training! I suppose, that once character appearence can be customised with items properly, and these items are made by players themselves from the basic materials (ore, hide) dug up in the game, these... fashion items would be the major resource sink, and thus bring balance to the game.

what do you think?

Zan

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« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2005, 11:23:43 pm »
Excellent idea and kind of what i was hoping \'crafting\' would bring into the game.
Zan Drithor, Member of the Vaalnor Council
Tyrnal Relhorn, Captain of the Vaalguard
Thromdir Shoake, Merchant
Giorn Kleaver, Miner.

Grayne Dholm, Follower of Dakkru