GMs exerting power

[buddha]

There is a thread that has been canceled in which a player objected to having his name changed.  Moogie closed the thread on the grounds that issues with GMs should be settled in private, and that the GMs word is final.  I agree in general with that philosophy, having been a GM, but there is another issue.

I was involved in some *in character* smack talk with a GM.  At a certain point,  the GM made me fall through the floor and die.  I need to add right here that I thought it was funny and added a good dimension to the game, so I\'m not upset over that.  But then I realised that the character the GM is playing probably does not have a \"fall through the floor\" spell.

I mean, there is a huge difference between being annoying in character and out. Am I annoying you or your character.  Maybe both, but as long as Im not going OOC, it\'s your character that must respond.  If I\'m running about OOC and being obnoxious, then OOC measures must be taken.

It was all in fun, and I won\'t mind if the GM does it to me again (as long as dying is still free), but how are we going to monitor GMs who start using this power too loosely?  In a pen and paper game, unjust calls can be argued over pizza during a break, and people are contrite.  How do we do it here?

Once again, I am in no way accusing that GM of abuse or such like, but this is the sort of thing that could get out of hand, and perhaps there should be a public forum on this.

On a personal note, I set up my char to be the one everyone hates and picks on, so I welcome a bit of *in character* abuse.  

EDIT: That thread was not deleted, just closed.

[TheRedMonk]

It\'s quite interesting that you brought this up just cause about an hour ago I had just this discussion with a friend. It\'s really really important that GM\'s understand the difference between OOC and IC and never abuse their powers.

I really don\'t think that GM\'s can RP, to be totally honest, because their job is to answer questions like \"Can I mace a macro?\" and \"Where do I find a +2 peanut sword\", and under those circumstances it is really difficult to stay in character at all times.

A good sollution is to do like some GM\'s have already done and create an two different characters, one for RP and one for GM:ing. This will probably lead to fewer GM\'s being on at the same time, but I don\'t think there is a lack of people wanting to be GM\'s right now, so all that needs to be done is more recruiting.

[buddha]

If they are going to inhabit the world, they stilll must obey the physics of the world.  Maybe they do have a \"fall through the floor\" spell, but then they are gods.  Will we have to worship members of the GMs Guild? If so, that\'s fine, but then I would be looking forward to trying to turn them on each other...

[blubasso]

I wish to try to answer me too: this is a game on-progress and i figure myself that GMs are very busy with a million of stuffs to do and to listen and to listen and to listen... I know that you, buddha, tryed only to stay in-game because this is a MMORPG and the letters RPG show that is a Role Play Game...My opinion is that you couldn\'t try to Role Play with GMs and they should\'t abuse their powers. I am not tryng to judge who is right and who is not, i figure the work of GMs... Sometime i talk with Elscha which is a GM, i know she is always busy and i try to don\'t disturb her as much as possible and if she don\'t answer me i don\'t offend me and i don\'t try to roleplay with her because i know she cannot...
So my suggest is as i told you before: until the most part of bugs aren\'t solved we couldn\'t try to roleplay with GMs, when they will be more free we can surely do .

Stefano

[Zanoxx]

Ok, as a GM, id liek to jut say, as far as the Cocky \"Power abusive\" characters Go, its jsut that most of them are new, and they are jsut using their slide commands, to whatever extent they need, to get a good laugh, eventually it gets boring, and i agree, it shoudl be monitored, but what are they goign to do? they cant demote people for doing that, it woudl be stupid. so i dont know wahts going on, i just thought i should add my commant, on teh GM\'s side.

[CadRipper]

Hello buddha,

It\'s an interesting topic indeed. As Tybalt said, GMs don\'t have much time to roleplay, and in fact it is a requirement that their GM character is different from their IC one.

Trying to get them involved in character, or expect them to react as such is a mistake you should avoid in the future, they\'re more often dealing with game issues that are pretty much OOC, and switching IC/OOC could be quite confusing for both the GM and the people around.

They may handle some specific cases IC if they think they can, for instance if someone is making trouble IC in a roleplay session and they think they can find a smooth solution that doesn\'t break the mood of the other players (like showing the way out to someone who makes too much trouble). Though frankly, I doubt it would work very often. Another better example is when they organise a game and play a role (then they should forward any OOC issue to another GM not involved in the game).

As for the abuse part, GM actions are logged and we can check them.

PS: As far as I can remember, Gronomist closed that thread, if you\'re talking about the Rotgut one

[buddha]

I have to say I have not yet witnessed any abuse.  The thing I was involved with was a bit of fun and (so far as I know) noone got mad.  It may never be a problem on PS, as most of the GMs seem pretty cool, but...

I think maybe a \"GM Code of Conduct\" could be posted in a public place.  Model it after the U.S. Constitution in that it really only limits and does not grant powers.  That way, if a player feels he\'s being abused, he can say \"This GM violated that code by doing this.\"

This would also make it easier for GMs to handle problem characters, as they could say \"under PS law, I now have the right to do such and such\".  Don\'t get too carried away with the details, but if you read the PvP people they can get pretty uptight!

*Mulla bows deeply to Zanoxx

[Draklar]

Hmm... I always try not to roleplay with GMs... this comes from the simple knowledge that they are supposed to have other characters for playing. So if I see someone in the Game Masters guild, I understand that they have work to do.

Altho\' there is one problem. What about those GMs who serve drinks in tavern or simply drink them? In such case not roleplaying with them is quite hard.

Hey... isn\'t that drinking in job?

[CadRipper]

Originally posted by buddha I think maybe a \"GM Code of Conduct\" could be posted in a public place.  Model it after the U.S. Constitution in that it really only limits and does not grant powers.  That way, if a player feels he\'s being abused, he can say \"This GM violated that code by doing this.\"

Rules of Conduct exist and should be posted very soon. We had to wait a little bit to proof them and be sure they would fit this game. We certainly didn\'t model it on something unrelated like the Constitution, but tried to preserve everyone\'s experience rather than individual rights, for example by \"encouraging\" roleplay or at least by giving priority to it.

This would also make it easier for GMs to handle problem characters, as they could say \"under PS law, I now have the right to do such and such\".  Don\'t get too carried away with the details, but if you read the PvP people they can get pretty uptight!

No, definitely not, I\'m sure that if you had any idea about the kind of problems we encounter, you would agree this simply can\'t work in 99% of the cases

[Kiva]

GMs don\'t roleplay, they help people with technical issues. Just because they\'re often standing at the Plaza doesn\'t mean you can yell at them either IC or OOC. And for the third time, GM issues are not to be discussed on these forums. If you have a problem, discuss it with them or go to the IRC channel and tell the devs about it (preferrably in a PM, as such things usually causes a great amount of noise and such...).

I mean, there is a huge difference between being annoying in character and out. Am I annoying you or your character. Maybe both, but as long as Im not going OOC, it\'s your character that must respond. If I\'m running about OOC and being obnoxious, then OOC measures must be taken.

It was all in fun, and I won\'t mind if the GM does it to me again (as long as dying is still free), but how are we going to monitor GMs who start using this power too loosely? In a pen and paper game, unjust calls can be argued over pizza during a break, and people are contrite. How do we do it here?

To answer this question easily and fast. People like you make sure that we all always know when a GM does bad stuff. I\'m not saying that you\'re a bad person at all, in fact it\'s always nice to have people who don\'t like getting abused ingame, and if such things occur, the GM-action log will be checked, to see if it\'s actually true, and so on. So if you get mistreated, don\'t hesitate to tell the devs about it, as they will do something. Forum mods wont.

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