Author Topic: Racist guilds in PS  (Read 5154 times)

Draklar

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« Reply #30 on: February 16, 2005, 01:58:36 pm »
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Originally posted by Cyberchu
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From http://www.planeshift.it/setting_races.html

The city of Yliakum is a melting pot of races with different culture and origin, mixed and integrated by living together over the centuries. Racial suspicion and hostility are completely unknown, given that the greater part of people belonging to one race is normally married to someone of another race.  


Just my two tria
Racism does not equal racial hostility:

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The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
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Incenjucar

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« Reply #31 on: February 16, 2005, 06:35:57 pm »
People are going to do it ANYWAY.  It\'s just part of RP.  Some people like to play elitist scumbags in one way or another (I do quite often, in fact).  So long as the hostilities remain IC, instead of OOC, its fine.

We\'re not playing candy land, after all (not that candy land isn\'t all white... blonde... blue eyed... candy people aside... only villain is a bad French stereotype... ...).
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Seytra

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« Reply #32 on: February 16, 2005, 08:32:56 pm »
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Originally posted by Incenjucar
People are going to do it ANYWAY.  It\'s just part of RP.

If they do, it\'s bad RP. Good RP needs to stick to the setting, and the setting says: \"no racism\". Therefore, if anyone \"RP\"s a racist, they either need an extremely good reason why their char is like that, and I don\'t see a lot of options there, or, as I said already, they\'re bad RPers.
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Originally posted by Incenjucar
Some people like to play elitist scumbags in one way or another (I do quite often, in fact).  So long as the hostilities remain IC, instead of OOC, its fine.

As RL proves everyday, there are plenty of other ways to abuse and mistreat people. Racism is just one of them.
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Originally posted by Incenjucar
We\'re not playing candy land, after all (not that candy land isn\'t all white... blonde... blue eyed... candy people aside... only villain is a bad French stereotype... ...).

Yeah, and I\'ve said already that I don\'t think we do. Channel your hate into hating Yliaki from another city or something, that\'ll be more according to the setting. One option is to be jealous because the upper two levels are the only ones that can be farmed well, so just pretend you\'re from the lower levels and want a share of that land off the \"monopolists\", even if their prices are fair (since this hardly matters in jealousy).


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Originally posted by Kixie
I for example use many examples of discrimination already like \"Wench\" and \"Commoner\" or \"Peasant\" and sometimes \"unpure\" or make some comment about their dirty blood.

\"Dirty\" / \"pure\" blood? How can anyone have \"pure blood\" except for a Kran?
« Last Edit: February 16, 2005, 08:39:41 pm by Seytra »

Ayshe

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« Reply #33 on: February 16, 2005, 08:43:01 pm »
Okay, so what about Felines Lair?

It\'s enki only, as the name would imply but it\'s not out of superiority or hostility.

The story goes there was an ordinary Enkidukai clan who lived a long time ago. The village was destroyed and the survivors escaped to here. Deep in the psyche of Enki is a need to be part of a clan, and the loss of cultural identity was damaging to the warriors. When the cut and dye of the fur no longer held significance, as none here had ever heard of the Black Marsh Enkidukai, depression replaced all zest for life. Many wandered off into the labyrinths and never returned, some denied their history and joined other clans, some became drunkards and wastrels. One wandered this new world and was saddened that she did not have a place, despite the friendliness of the Dermorians that had found her and her tattered clan, and taken them in.

While travelling, the loner was attacked by brigands, and was saved by another enki, similarily without clan. They became companions. From this bond of friendship came the idea that perhaps they could form a new clan, that kept the histories and traditions of ann who join. A place to remember.

So it was done. Felines Lair became one of the few Enkidukai clans in Yliakum. Not because Enkidukai were superior to any other race, nor that any other race were inferior to us. Simply a place to remember. Something that was deeply ingrained into the Enkidukai psyche; a need for a clan to belong to. The way we cut our fur, the dye and paint identify us to eachother and to the world as Enkidukai.

The concept that one would despise a race is foreign to myself and many members. But do the stonebreakers not have underground caverns, crafted with their own hands? They need hard earth above them and depths to go, to think, to be. Kran have their beautiful crystal chambers. Each have their own. We all have a need to express who we are, and Enkidukai need to have an identity. Felines Lair has become that identity to many displaced travellers, and Talad willing it will always be.

So are we a racist guild?
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Ionas

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« Reply #34 on: February 16, 2005, 09:08:31 pm »
On a side note fanatic religious guilds following Laanx or Talad would be a nice addition. People trying to convert others to teachings in the public square, plotting against the opposing religion, creating false wonders and texts and all that.

Racist guilds should be possible though as long as those are based on PS races and not something moronic like the Deutsch guild, European guild or whatever.

Of course members should restrain from harassing others but it all would lead to more political interesting developments where good and evil may not be to clear.

Draklar

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« Reply #35 on: February 16, 2005, 09:22:32 pm »
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If they do, it\'s bad RP. Good RP needs to stick to the setting, and the setting says: \"no racism\".
First, it doesn\'t say \"no racism\". Read what I posted before.
Second, my Clawhand char (enkidukai) used to be quite suspicious against Ylians. Setting might say it is bad for rp. But I could quote part of Yliakum history, which would prove it wrong.
Simple assumption would be that the \"racism\" bit in races\' setting is over-generalised.
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Seytra

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« Reply #36 on: February 16, 2005, 10:13:33 pm »
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Originally posted by Draklar
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If they do, it\'s bad RP. Good RP needs to stick to the setting, and the setting says: \"no racism\".
First, it doesn\'t say \"no racism\". Read what I posted before.

So you say that all Yliaki, or at least the vast majority, is happily married to othere who they consider inferior, or that this at least is possible?
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Originally posted by Draklar
Second, my Clawhand char (enkidukai) used to be quite suspicious against Ylians. Setting might say it is bad for rp. But I could quote part of Yliakum history, which would prove it wrong.

Then by all means, please do so. I\'m forced to do some guesswork here, so I\'m guessing that you\'re referring to the farming problem.
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From the history page
The first two levels of Yliakum - the only ones where it was possible to farm - were worked more intensely. On the first level, the stolid Ylians claimed the absolute ownership of the ground that they were farming, refusing to share with other races. They built fences and walls, and began to look at books about armies and armed defense. The Enkidukai that lived in the same area were driven away and this was considered an intrusion in their freedom. The tension between the two races increased, and some of them clashed, but Talad was able to control their anger and to bring back the stability.

Frankly, I think this was a stupid thing to put in the history, because it indeed dilutes the statement on the races page. It looks to me as if it was meant to be \"ages ago\" (which is supported by the fact that by that time, not even all of Yliakum had been colonised, which means that it\'s been really, really long ago), although it comes accross as somewhat recent, especially because it is menationed so close to the end of the history.
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Originally posted by Draklar
Simple assumption would be that the \"racism\" bit in races\' setting is over-generalised.

Or that the incident indeed was thousands of years ago, and that actually nobody knows about it anymore, except historians who wonder how this might have been possible. ;)

@ Ionas: Indeed I\'m missing fanatical Laanx or Talad sects as well, as the setting literally begs for them.

@ Ayshe: I don\'t know. There is a difference between clans and race, but as has been stated, it would be strange for a clan to not allow other races in if they\'d qualify except for race. I\'m quite wary of groups that are aiming to \"preserve the traditions and ways of XYZ\" by excluding all other races. Why would it be bad for other races to embrace the ways and tradition of XYZ? Exactly it wouldn\'t, unless you believe that others practicing those would be sacrilege, as they\'re not worthy of doing so, which is racism, since you thereby imply that your race is superior.

Don\'t get me wrong: you may well require that every clan member does certain things, even if these are very hard to do for members of other races, if these are part of tradition, and would be required even if there would be no other race. You may, however, not require these things to get rid of said other races.

I see nothing in the background of Felines Layer that would rule out other races. Tribes do take in members of other tribes, as long as these mambers then belong to only one tribe (except it\'s a\"honour membership\" given in response to some exceptional deed) and accept anything and everything, benefits and duties, that comes with the membership. Entering a tribe is hard, and the person must do something to prove themselves worthy, but it mustn\'t be made easier for members of race XYZ. It must, however, also not be made easier for members of other races.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2005, 10:18:20 pm by Seytra »

Ayshe

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« Reply #37 on: February 17, 2005, 12:28:24 am »
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Originally posted by Seytra
I see nothing in the background of Felines Layer that would rule out other races.


Don\'t overlook the psychology issue. There are no \"half caste\" peoples in Planeshift, all children are born as either the same race as their mother or father. Racial tension is fairly uncommon as most peoples grew up with mixed parents and siblings.

But each race has their own, predetermined psyche that is as inherent as their outward appearance.

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\"The Enkidukai race maintains its wild nature. They live in packs controlled by the male who is strongest and most skillful in combat. Each pack has a typical and easily recognizable look, mostly because of their habit in cutting or coloring fur in ritual or traditional ways. \"


All of the enkidukai in the Lair have a need to be part of a clan. This is not all that common in the city, but it was very common in the lands from which they all came. No other peoples that I have come across so far have expressed a desire to cut and dye their fur (or hair) and get tribal markings. This isn\'t a gang of enki, but an outlet for those who need to have a cultural identity in keeping with some traditions of Enkidukai. There are many guilds, and all serve a purpouse.
The Felines Lair

Kaseijin

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« Reply #38 on: February 17, 2005, 12:41:41 am »
seytra....you\'re just wrong!
and i have nothing more to say.
i actually play planeshift

Incenjucar

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« Reply #39 on: February 17, 2005, 02:49:36 am »
Honestly, it\'ll make more sense if such happens due to -religion-.

Klyros, for instance, when met by the DEITY ITSELF, snubbed Laanx as a -race-.

(Klyros in general seem to be very race-oriented anyways...)

Other races would bend over backwards for it without so much as a please.

The racial issues will be more incidental than anything.

Now, as for the matter of breeding...  that\'s wholly confusing.

How the heck an elf makes babies with a rock... brrr
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Ayshe

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« Reply #40 on: February 17, 2005, 03:05:11 am »
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Originally posted by Incenjucar
Now, as for the matter of breeding...  that\'s wholly confusing.

How the heck an elf makes babies with a rock... brrr


Kran are the exception to the rule, Kran reproduction is something of a mystery, and it is apparently not possible with other races.
The Felines Lair

Draklar

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« Reply #41 on: February 17, 2005, 06:09:39 am »
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Originally posted by Seytra
Frankly, I think this was a stupid thing to put in the history, because it indeed dilutes the statement on the races page.
err... did it occur to you that considering history is a fact, whilst races setting just an assumption, that it might be the other way around?
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Hatchnet

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« Reply #42 on: February 17, 2005, 07:05:50 am »
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Originally posted by Draklar
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Originally posted by Seytra
Frankly, I think this was a stupid thing to put in the history, because it indeed dilutes the statement on the races page.
err... did it occur to you that considering history is a fact, whilst races setting just an assumption, that it might be the other way around?


Very good Dracklar even in a world like Planrshift where racial tension is at a minimum it would only take a few fanatics to cause major raceial problems; even turning whole famlies against each other.

Draklar

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« Reply #43 on: February 17, 2005, 07:15:23 am »
Ah, one more thing; Let\'s assume such situation:

Young dwarf loses his whole family in a diaboli rogue attack. Now once he grows up, won\'t he treat with mistrust kin of those who killed his family?
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Hatchnet

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« Reply #44 on: February 17, 2005, 07:20:32 am »
Seems to me that he would also mistrust the Ynwnns and those who were though of diferent races related to diaboli; includeing other dwarves.