Author Topic: Racist guilds in PS  (Read 5167 times)

Valbrandr

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« Reply #45 on: February 17, 2005, 08:43:35 am »
This may not be the right place to bring this arguement but I am less worried about racist guilds and more worried about the superiority complex some of the older players have.  Many are good people and will be excepting of new people but many others are overly critical to new members by flaming them out of the forum and what not.  This is the form of racism I worry about.

Edit:  It depends on the board I think and what you are doing.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2005, 09:59:55 am by Valbrandr »

Kaseijin

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« Reply #46 on: February 17, 2005, 09:51:07 am »
actually Valbrandr, i haven\'t seen that happening on this forum. Okay maybe some people get a little frustrated when new people post something that has been posted two days ago, besides that i think most people here are ok....and that\'s coming from a newbie...i\'ve been around here for about a month.
i actually play planeshift

Seytra

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« Reply #47 on: February 17, 2005, 11:01:55 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Draklar
Quote
Originally posted by Seytra
Frankly, I think this was a stupid thing to put in the history, because it indeed dilutes the statement on the races page.
err... did it occur to you that considering history is a fact, whilst races setting just an assumption, that it might be the other way around?

Eh? No, it didn\'t occur to me, because basicly both are completely made up. It might just as well have been put into history that at some instance, all dwarves decided that they need to be able to swim, or that all Nolthrir colored themselves blue.

As for the dwarf thing: he may, but if he doesn\'t live somewhere so secluded that there are no or almost no Diaboli, he will not actually be thinking that. Instead, he will know that there are just as evil dwarves and whatnot around, because violent crime will be rather common in Yliakum. All depends on how separated people are, and I think they shouldn\'t be very separated.

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Originally posted by Kaseijin
seytra....you\'re just wrong!
and i have nothing more to say.

Thanks for your insights. :rolleyes:

@ Incenjucar: yes, that is an interesting thing, much like the Diaboli in effect, but totally different in cause.

@ Ayshe: there may be some who do, but it\'d be few, if any (quite an RP challenge). If it is what you describe, it\'s fine with me.

@ Valbrandr: it\'s basicly the reason why the acronym \"RTFM\" was invented.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2005, 11:15:55 pm by Seytra »

Jazeera

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« Reply #48 on: February 17, 2005, 11:10:33 pm »
as long as you keep it IC I don?t see a problem... yet dwarves and elves have a natural problem, well that might not count here but some players might want to be like this ingame... I say why stop them? ;)
Jazeera Hlaaron

Seytra

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« Reply #49 on: February 17, 2005, 11:18:12 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Jazeera
as long as you keep it IC I don?t see a problem... yet dwarves and elves have a natural problem, well that might not count here but some players might want to be like this ingame... I say why stop them? ;)

Because it is bad RP: it doesn\'t adhere to the setting.

Jazeera

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« Reply #50 on: February 17, 2005, 11:23:13 pm »
it is indeed bad rp, but really what can anyone do to stop it? and if you do keep it to a certain limit... then I don?t see the problem  ;)
Jazeera Hlaaron

Seytra

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« Reply #51 on: February 18, 2005, 12:06:58 am »
Quote
Originally posted by Jazeera
it is indeed bad rp, but really what can anyone do to stop it? and if you do keep it to a certain limit... then I don?t see the problem  ;)

But how are you going to keep it to a certain limit without enforcing the contrary? If something is highly convenient, as is racism as \"justification\" for violence or conflict, then it will become mainstream, unless it\'s artificially made inconvenient, i.e., by enforcing the opposite. This is especially true if newbies shall be able to learn the setting while playing. They\'ll get a completely wrong impression.

nukemeshi

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« Reply #52 on: February 18, 2005, 01:09:14 am »
ok, so, I\'m admitting, i didn\'t read the second page...but this is the same emotion i have had on the first page and kept on the third page...RACISM IS A NO!!!!! i have NEVER luiked the idea, or even considered it, everyone is equal, accept it allready.
\"You can think what you thought you knew all you want, that will rarely make it true. Act, and you see results, sit, and you get nothing,\" MY quote. The act part isn\'t allways there.

\"There are to things that are infinite, the universe, and human stupidity,\" Albert Einstien.

Ayshe

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« Reply #53 on: February 18, 2005, 03:22:27 am »
Quote
Originally posted by nukemeshi
...everyone is equal, accept it allready.


Wrong. Everyone is not equal. Nilaya, for instance is well liked, well known and is the leader of one of MB\'s greatest guilds. Her prescence and opinon has far more weight than, say, a 3 day new powerleveller.

Perhaps what you meant is that everyone in Planeshift, unlike the real world, is created fairly equal. And that in the digital world we are all helping to create, everyone has equal opportunities.
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Draklar

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« Reply #54 on: February 18, 2005, 05:28:01 am »
Oh come on... There is a difference between common crime and having your whole family slaughtered on your eyes. And frankly, I don\'t see how being forced to live among those who you hate is supposed to heal the damage.
Quote
Originally posted by Seytra
Eh? No, it didn\'t occur to me, because basicly both are completely made up. It might just as well have been put into history that at some instance, all dwarves decided that they need to be able to swim, or that all Nolthrir colored themselves blue.
And you talk about bad rp? :P
If something is in Yliakum history, it means it happened.
End of story.
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Abelard

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« Reply #55 on: February 18, 2005, 07:43:11 am »
I don\'t think that racism is bad RP. While the setting does say that all races live in friendship, doesn\'t that mean that racism MAY appear after some time? And your character isn\'t just \"someone\", so it doesn\'t mean he should do everything that all others do. For example, imagine a country where there is no crime. Does it mean that no person is able to commit a crime? No, it means that there is no such thing present, but it doesn\'t mean that this isn\'t possible at all.
My opinion is - as long as it is IC, it fits well. It would be far more interesting to have characters behave how you want them to behave. Of course, racism and sexism should be regulated so that it\'s reasonable - no racial wars, for example (though that would be just OK IMHO).
And I\'m not a racist in real life ;). But I think that too much regulation will make the game extremely dull, like most other MMORPGs in existence. What do you want - a realistic world or a place to slaughter mobs and get experience?
« Last Edit: February 18, 2005, 07:43:32 am by Abelard »

Kaseijin

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« Reply #56 on: February 18, 2005, 12:13:59 pm »
the bit where it says it says there\'s no racism in Yliakum is generlization... it merely suggests that there is no race that is considered as supperior or inferrior by the general public, that legally every race is treated the same. It doesn\'t mean that not even one citizen of Yliakum feels any hatred towards any race.
It\'s like saying that there is no war in Yliakum it does not mean that no one ever fights, or that no ever gets attacked.

read between the lines....
« Last Edit: February 18, 2005, 12:14:43 pm by Kaseijin »
i actually play planeshift

Jazeera

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« Reply #57 on: February 18, 2005, 12:17:27 pm »
Well I would like to know how anyone would stop racism? and well if there should become a cult like KKK against let?s say Krans then it?s RP isn?t it? and isn?t planeshift about RP? racism is a part of life face it... it is everywhere :)

btw. I am not a racist and I do not have problems with any races IC or OOC!
Jazeera Hlaaron

Socrates Demise

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« Reply #58 on: February 18, 2005, 12:48:23 pm »
I find it hard to Believe That there is no racism in Yliakum I play a Kran.

Thr bar nrvrt has anything mor for me to drink than a beer with a jwel in it.  There is nothing I would like to eat.  And with one simple line i the race discription people feel that the kran saould not be as intelligent as them.  Not to mention that we are such aforign creature compaired to the rest of the inhabatants that they could not truly empethise with one of us.  Besides that Not being able to reproduce with the other races in the world would create a tight knit community among the kran one that would be tough if not impossabe for others to feel comfortable in.

Not a problem Though. I picked the Kran mainly because it seemed like it would add that exact deminsion one of not fitting in.  Maby even a little bit of the underdog... always striving to prove his worth to others in the world.

Seytra

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« Reply #59 on: February 22, 2005, 03:16:42 am »
Quote
Originally posted by Draklar
Oh come on... There is a difference between common crime and having your whole family slaughtered on your eyes. And frankly, I don\'t see how being forced to live among those who you hate is supposed to heal the damage.
Right, so let\'s assume that this person, who has been living with those of the same race that killed his family all the time until the event happened, probably being friends to some of them, now actually thinks \"yeah, they must all be like that!\".
So now the question is: how many people share his fate? Is it actually possible for, say, 1000 Ylians to share that fate? How many of those marauding bands would that take, and if they indeed were that strong, wouldn\'t they be known very well, i.e., official?
This means that it cannot be a usual backstory of more than, say, 10 PCs, because otherwise it\'d need to have a resemblance ingame that is way more defined than ten players telling ghost stories.
However, this it the exact kind of makeshift backstory that is designed for the sole reason of explaining whyt the char hates race XYZ. seeing the popularity of that general idea is giving me the creeps, and, frankly, I begin to see why our world is so screwed up.
Anyway, it would mean that there would be thousands of race XYZ slaughtering hundreds of thousands of race ABC, always leaving just one infant to witness it all. This would mean that race ABC would be extinct very quickly, and it would also mean that race XYZ, or at least a major part of it, is particularly violent and only towards race ABC, which is really insane.
Quote
Originally posted by Draklar
Quote
Originally posted by Seytra
Eh? No, it didn\'t occur to me, because basicly both are completely made up. It might just as well have been put into history that at some instance, all dwarves decided that they need to be able to swim, or that all Nolthrir colored themselves blue.
And you talk about bad rp? :P
If something is in Yliakum history, it means it happened.
End of story.
Obviously I have not expressed myself well.
From an IC perspective, the history is of course a fact. However, I was talking OOC, and therefore the history is nothing more than a text on a website, made up by some people. That means that it could contain anything. Therefore, it is exactly the same as the races setting, i.e. made up. Neither are \"facts\", and both are equally official and valid to me, because both are OOC. They are parts of the same, just like chapters of a book.

Quote
Originally posted by Abelard
And I\'m not a racist in real life ;). But I think that too much regulation will make the game extremely dull, like most other MMORPGs in existence. What do you want - a realistic world or a place to slaughter mobs and get experience?
I want neither a fully realistic world, nor the usual hack\'n slash. Agreed, racism can be used to draw good RP, but it is one of these things that require extremely experienced RPers, which are rare. The majority will be unexperienced, and most of them will not be able to handle it properly. That\'d be not a problem in SP games, or in small groups, but it is in a MMORPG.
There are other, less dangeroud things that can be added to spice up RP, and I hope that these will be there soon.  People are already fighting to death for no reason at all, so what will happen if racism would be an official excuse for PK?

@ Socrates Demise: You do realise that the lack of race-specific food is due to the highly incomplete nature of PS, no?
As for the mental abilities of Kran: as has been pointed out, the Enkis are, in fact, less intelligent than the Kran. Therefore, the same sentence should be added to the Enki description page as well. Furthermore, seeing that many races are quite close to the 40 INT, it doesn\'t seem to be a big difference anyway, and the more it is cited, the more it feels way overhyped.

Edited for language.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2006, 03:35:57 am by Karyuu »