[ORGANIZATION]The Dark Empire: Promotional Thread

[ramlambmoo]

If you know of some foul action he did, then tell me. If you don\'t, then why discuss it? Everyone can become a bad member. I can live and deal with that.  

Ever heard of sublety?  Maybe I like it this way instead of barging in and saying \"OMFG!!!!11 He did this and this and this and omg dont believe anything he says hes 3viL!\".  Why I choose to discuss it are my own reasons.  If you dont want to discuss it, feel free to stop any time.

Why does that make such an assumption?  

You\'re assuming that one system is a better measure of their character than the other, because You havnt provided any evidence as to why It is.  Thus a desicion made without facts is an assumption.

as?sump?tion (a-sump\'shen)  n.
#  The act of taking possession or asserting a claim: assumption of command.
# The act of taking for granted: assumption of a false theory.
# Something taken for granted or accepted as true without proof; a supposition.

Unless you want to provide evidence contrary to that, then I am entitled to call your desicion an assumption.

Maybe you are making the assumption that someone is nothing but the orders it receives from its leaders, since you think I can\'t have a little idea of what a person is like when that person belongs to a guild.  

Thats some nice conjecture, however its wrong.  It never made any such claim.

Thanks for your opinion, anyway. However I\'ll stick with mine and try having fun, for the time being.

as you do..

[Sangwa]

Mighty witty on your part to do the little explanation. However I did not say I wasn\'t making an assumption, might I quote myself using italic on the important words \"Why does that make such an assumption?\"

Let me try it myself now.

That:  \"Judging someone by their previous leaders or commands might not always be a wise decision. I\'d rather pick my members for what they\'ve shown themselves, despite what orders they followed.\"

Such an assumption: \"what someone shows over the short time you know them is a better reflection of their character then their accumulated previous actions.\"

 
Talamir has posted in this forum, and I have watched some of his efforts as a guild member and as a guild leader. Further, my guild mates spoke well of him. That pleased me.
See. I considered what he did himself, not what he was ordered to do, since it rarely works to command someone into activeness and dedication. So, I did not ignore the information I had on him, I rather thought it was positve.
You\'re telling me I\'m judging him by the little time I know him. You made an assumption at that. Use the defenition in the previous post to know why.

I hope I\'ve been clearer this time. And if you wish to tell me something about Talamir, you don\'t need to be subtle or loud. It\'s quite simple to simply PM me with it.

[ramlambmoo]

Mighty witty on your part to do the little explanation. However I did not say I wasn\'t making an assumption, might I quote myself using italic on the important words \"Why does that make such an assumption?\"  

Well you\'re asking me to quantify an assumption.  To do that we would need a common standard for an assumption, and then compare yours against that.  In my mind, there aren\'t many grades of assumptions- Either you use evidence to help your desicion, or you dont.  Thus I showed that you were in fact assuming, as that is far more useful then trying to make some obscure scale for measuring how much you were indeed assuming.

See. I considered what he did himself, not what he was ordered to do, since it rarely works to command someone into activeness and dedication. So, I did not ignore the information I had on him, I rather thought it was positve.
You\'re telling me I\'m judging him by the little time I know him. You made an assumption at that. Use the defenition in the previous post to know why.  

You\'re getting confused here.  Im not nessecarily accusing you of making an assumption about Talamir directly- Im accusing you of making an assumption that your method of assesing Talamir\'s Character is the best one to use.  I did not accuse you of discarding evidence in relation to Talamir, but on the contrary that you provided none to support your assertion that the way you evaluated his character was the correct way.

You\'re telling me I\'m judging him by the little time I know him. You made an assumption at that. Use the defenition in the previous post to know why.  

How can you judge somebody on the time that you did not know them?  Correct, I assumed you judged him on the time you knew him, since it would be reckless and unreliable to judge somebody when you dont even know them, wouldn\'t it?  Yes, it is an assumption, but it is a correct one, isnt it?  There is nothing inherently wrong with an assumption, if it is a reasonable one, and it turns out to be true.  See, all your observations of him have been made in the time that you knew him: \"I have watched some of his efforts as a guild member and as a guild leader.\"  Thus my assumption that you are evaluating his character on the time that you knew him is, in fact, correct, where as your assumption that This is the correct way to evaluate someone\'s character, has not been proven.

And if you wish to tell me something about Talamir, you don\'t need to be subtle or loud. It\'s quite simple to simply PM me with it.

Yes, but then we wouldnt be having this conversation.  As I stated before I really dont give two figs about your guild- you can run it as you want.  Therefore me privately giving you advice is completly useless from my perspective.

[Sangwa]

We aren\'t communicating well. We\'re making no sense to each other.

Here\'s how I think the conversation should have evolved:
I asked you why was it that judging some one not by their commands but by the way they behaved as guild members in their previous guilds was assuming that I only judge them for the time I know them.
All you had to say was \"Oh... You mean you take into consideration their efforts as guild members of their previous guilds while ignoring their previous guild ideals? You weren\'t clear then.\"
And I would say \"I apologize, I\'m glad you understand now.\"
Then you would say something like this \"You can\'t possibly know everything a member does just by reading some of their posts and asking what people think of that member.\"
\"Right you are. Life\'s a gamble.\"

I know some of Talamir\'s efforts as a Guild member in Deux Ex Trucido and as a guild leader in Atrox Interficio.

It would be rather painful to comment your whole post, and useless as well. It\'s obvious that you didn\'t understand well what I\'ve been saying or that you\'re understanding it in your own way. So, it\'s a pointless post based on a wrong perception of words. It\'s my fault too, since it were my words that you didn\'t understand.

I also don\'t give one fig about you, I simply don\'t want anyone to be misinformed.

[ramlambmoo]

We aren\'t communicating well. We\'re making no sense to each other.  

Well I dont have a problem here, but It isnt much point continuing if you cant understand it.  I\'ll re-phrase my main point simply.

What I said (or meant to say) was that you assume That judging someone over the time you know them and what you observed is more valuable then judging them by their previous actions.  You seem to have gotten this idea of \"previous commanders and guild leaders\" mixed up in it, which I dont think is relevant at all.  Anyway you said \"I\'d rather pick my members for what they\'ve shown themselves\".  What they\'ve shown themselves must be what you have observed them doing- for If you were not there to observe them, then you would know about it through the Guild, or through other people, Which you said you wanted to avoid?  Thus you are making your judgement based on what You have observed of them, in the time you have known them, and not nessecarily in the entire time they have been in PS.  Therefore there are two different methods: Judge them only on what you have seen, or Judge them on everything, Some of which you must rely on others to tell you.  I therefore claimed that you assumed that your method was the correct one.  I never said you assumed anything about Talamir himself, but about the method which you are assesing him.  Clear?  By the \"time that you know\" I mean the time that you, yourself, have observed them.  If you are not directly observing them, then their actions will become tainted by whatever Third Parties are involved in reporting the informaiton to you, like the Guilds, etc, and you stated you did not want this to happen.
The more subtle, and more important Implication that I was trying to make by bringing this up would be that there Is in fact something that you should know about Talamir that would affect you.  But since this discussion has gotten technical and thus proceeded with the sublety of a SledgeHammer, theres little point in playing that one out now.

t\'s obvious that you didn\'t understand well what I\'ve been saying

Touche.

It\'s my fault too, since it were my words that you didn\'t understand.

Well, on the contrary, I\'ve understood whats been going on the entire time- but obviously My skill in explaining that has not been up to par.

I also don\'t give one fig about you, I simply don\'t want anyone to be misinformed.

Who are you preventing from being mis informed?  There is no one else bothering to read this, just you and me.  If I wanted to mis-inform people about your guild I have far more effecient ways of doing it.

[Xordan]

Originally posted by ramlambmoo
There is no one else bothering to read this, just you and me.

And me

Originally posted by ramlambmoo
If I wanted to mis-inform people about your guild I have far more effecient ways of doing it.

Like: OMFG DE are t3h sux lol!1 b00000!!!

[Draklar]

Originally posted by ramlambmoo
There is no one else bothering to read this, just you and me.

Then use PMs.
Oh, and I read a bit of it too... Although reading posts from two people arguing over word \"assumption\" is amusement, more than anything else...

[Sangwa]

I was refering to you, when I said I didn\'t want anyone misinformed.
Anyway, enough with this. This is just getting the thread messy. Should you wish to keep this nonsense flowing then let\'s put into PMs, like good old Draklar said.

[Kiern]

Originally posted by Draklar
Oh, and I read a bit of it too... Although reading posts from two people arguing over word \"assumption\" is amusement, more than anything else...

I don\'t know man, that was perhaps the most mind-numbing thing I\'ve read.  Not much amusement value. :baby:

[ramlambmoo]

I were refering to you, when I said I didn\'t want anyone misinformed.

I also don\'t give one fig about you,

You dont give one fig about me, but you dont want me to be misinformed?  Doesnt that count as at least one fig, or even possibly two?

   

Originally posted by ramlambmoo
    There is no one else bothering to read this, just you and me.

Then use PMs.
Oh, and I read a bit of it too... Although reading posts from two people arguing over word \"assumption\" is amusement, more than anything else...

Well, I said no-one is bothering at the current time- it still leaves open the possibility of someone at a later date wanting to read it.  Though I should have really known that after posting something like \"no-one is reading this\" 3 seperate people would come back and post.

Since Sangwa seems to have given up and not argued any more of the original points, The discussion is closed, as I dont even have anything to put in a PM.  Well it was nice while it lasted.

[Cyl]

My two Cents about this matter, I don\'t think members should be chosen by alignment but useability by DE. I mean does it really matter wheter a soldier just wants to kill and get\'s this chance by being a member of DE or a person with the goal to enslave others, both are of equal use...

And no don\'t come with \"RP-reasons\", I really doubt that an empire would mind each soldiers goals, in order to build up an army. There are the ghosts to turn up traitors and conspirancies...

[Sangwa]

Yes, that\'s more or less my view Cyl.

I\'m sorry to disappoint you Bael, but my arguing mood isn\'t infinite.
*Thinks about starting a discussion about how much a fig is worth.*
Naaaah.

[zanzibar]

This is too funny....

Sangwa, you have pride.  It is your failing -- it closes your ears to those who are more wise than you.

You asked for proof... talk to Anthony should you require any.

[ramlambmoo]

This is too funny....

Sangwa, you have pride. It is your failing -- it closes your ears to those who are more wise than you.

You asked for proof... talk to Anthony should you require any.

Now now, lets not inflame things any further... *looks back at his own posts and realises the hypocrisy*... As far as I\'m concerned this whole matter is settled

I\'m sorry to disappoint you Bael, but my arguing mood isn\'t infinite.  

And I suppose therein lies the difference.

*Thinks about starting a discussion about how much a fig is worth.*  

Don\'t give me ideas...

[Sangwa]

Sangwa, you have pride. It is your failing -- it closes your ears to those who are more wise than you.

That might be Shalmaneser. However I greatly doubt it is my failling. It hasn\'t cost me much until now.
Being prideful doesn\'t mean I don\'t listen to others. It might mean I just don\'t show it while discussing with them. It may not be wise, but it\'s not fatal.

Anthony? I don\'t need strangers to tell me of my errors, when I\'m so bluntly pointed out what they are.