Author Topic: Planeshift government  (Read 3725 times)

Valbrandr

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« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2005, 10:31:12 am »
I agree.. it should grow on its own...  I believe the devs and mods can do the job just fine.  I just cant see a purpose that is beneficial... and nor do I like Order.

Phinehas

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« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2005, 12:37:51 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Valbrandr
I would really like to know what the point of a government would be.  What can they do to us?  This seems like a disadvantage to evil players.  I dont think we need a government... unless they have clear objectives that dont interfere with us.  I am tired of governments period :).

*coughURPScough*

The only new thing I have to say is that if it is a player-controlled government, I don\'t think GM\'s should be in it. That gives them too much power OOC and IC. I think it would be better if strong and honorable RPers get into government than some random GM, unless they did it with different characters. It\'s just too much of a temptation to misuse the GM powers in government.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2005, 12:40:02 pm by Phinehas »

Annah

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« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2005, 12:47:02 pm »
Quote
*coughURPScough*

 I think you\'ve indirectly answered to your requests and suggestions :P
« Last Edit: February 26, 2005, 12:47:39 pm by Annah »
- Black Order -

Phinehas

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« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2005, 01:15:18 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Annah
Quote
*coughURPScough*

 I think you\'ve indirectly answered to your requests and suggestions :P

Am I the only one who didn\'t get that?

Altharion

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« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2005, 05:06:04 pm »
the higher ranked political figures in IC should be elected by players and sponsored by other players with high popularity like me or Kada-el  :P

Kiva

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« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2005, 05:30:00 pm »
Let me just ask, mainly because I\'m curious to know how you people think.

Now, first of all. What makes you think that there actually will be a PS government. I mean, what will these people do? Vote about how bad/good something is, make new laws, be bored? Sorry to tell you, but that\'s what the GMs do.

And I\'m also curious as to why you guys think - IF there will be a government of some kind, which do something important or whatnot - then why would the devs ever put players in charge of it? Seriously, come on. Players deciding how a game is to be run... That just doesn\'t work. I\'m really sorry to tell you, but it doesn\'t.
\"Somewhere over the rainbow...\"

Kiern

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« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2005, 05:49:53 pm »
Grono, I think there are plenty of ways to do this.  I\'ve thought it through plenty and have had many ideas on how to run it.

All talk and no substance, eh?  I\'ll try to see if I can write something up today since you actually seem interested.  I\'m not promising anything too compelling though. ;)

Quote
Originally posted by Moogie Kiern, you sound like PS totally uninterests you anymore. Why do you stick around? (Not getting at you, just curious).


I was never really interested in Planeshift the game, even before MB.  Mostly I stuck around because of BISM and OI...there\'s just never been a real \"game\" before now being talked about on this board.

Platyna

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« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2005, 05:59:01 pm »
Motto: Every power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Regarding to what members of goverment will do - it may cause too much
fights for power, popularity contests and unwanted political events
therefore I am always against giving the players any political power above
other, with exception of GMs. I have seen what the power given to the
average player in game can do, so I am very afraid of player developed
goverment and in my opinion players should just play the game and if they
are knowledgable, active and mature the should be simply made GMs.
Not always a well liked person is a material for a good leader...
My two cents.

Regards.
Zuzanna K. Filutowska
RPG Players Community || Platyna\'s Planeshift Warehouse
\"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.\" -- Edward Burke

Kiern

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« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2005, 07:00:27 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Platyna
Motto: Every power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Regarding to what members of goverment will do - it may cause too much
fights for power, popularity contests and unwanted political events
therefore I am always against giving the players any political power above
other, with exception of GMs. I have seen what the power given to the
average player in game can do, so I am very afraid of player developed
goverment and in my opinion players should just play the game and if they
are knowledgable, active and mature the should be simply made GMs.
Not always a well liked person is a material for a good leader...
My two cents.

Regards.


1) That is why they would not be given \"absolute power\".   That\'s just obviously a stupid thing to do.

2) GMs and political leaders would require two very different types of people, with the exception of Cad (the head) there is no GM I have talked to that should even come close to touching anything political.

3) I do agree 100% with your last statement, but as said above, the same applies to GMs.

All I\'m saying is don\'t immediatly say you don\'t want something due to past experiences, there is different ways to get things done and just because some other game screwed it up doesn\'t mean Planeshift is necessarily going to.

I think the fighting in other games sucks, as does the RP...so far PS has yet to make things different, but I see no reason not to give it a chance.

I\'m not putting your thoughts down or disregarding them or something like that, I just don\'t see how people can think an idea is stupid without there being a real idea yet.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2005, 07:47:04 pm by Kiern »

dwarf

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« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2005, 07:00:46 pm »
I think they should not have a government but like someone said, if a guild makes a village than they are pretty much the government there.

 That is the only government there should be in the game, EXCEPT FOR GM\'s OF COURSE!!
« Last Edit: February 26, 2005, 07:34:24 pm by dwarf »

Monketh

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« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2005, 08:01:19 pm »
...So long as I get a position with the secret police and a sharp suit, you got my vote.  :P

Seriously, though, a player-run govenrment would be very interesting, though prone to collapse, disorganization and indecision.  Don\'t forget disappearing government officers because of RL.
The key to manipulative bargaining is to ask for something twice as big as what you want, then smile and nod when you are talked down to your original wish. You are still young, my apprentice, and have much to learn in the ways of the force. -UtM

Kiern

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« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2005, 08:22:25 pm »
I\'m trying to get these down so I can address them.

List of Concerns
  -Bribery, Corruption, etc.
  -Too much power
  -Evil players, anarchists and stuff not happy/disadvantaged
  -Interference (taxes, rules)
  -Government members going \"missing\"
  -Most importantly, what exactly would they DO?

Anything else?
« Last Edit: February 26, 2005, 08:22:46 pm by Kiern »

Phinehas

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« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2005, 08:29:25 pm »
I don\'t have a concern, but I really must reiterate the point that almost all the present GM\'s would be totally incompetent to hold political power.

buddha

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« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2005, 08:32:49 pm »
Well, if we\'re talking about having a good role-playing experience, then I don\'t see how we can escape PC run government.

Without the guilds as a major factor, all of the story lines and quests have to come from the devs.  There is simply no other vehicle for quests at the moment.

To create drama and storylines, you need some sort of conflict.  Right now it seems to me we have a bunch of \"evil\" guilds and a bunch of \"good\" guilds, but their interaction is limited to dueling on the plaza once in a while.  There is no real tension between them.

Power struggles are a great way to introduce conflict.  With a good power struggle, you have built-in adventures. Spies, assassins, quests, heros, general, armies, everything.

Where should these power struggles come from?  The natural place is the guilds and/or local governments.  Otherwise we are once again waiting for the devs to come up with one for us.

But now the problem is: what power are they struggling for?  Right now there can be no conflict because there is nothing to \"win\", really.  You have to give them something to fight over.  Tax revenue from a city is a perfect thing to fight over.

So, in my opinion, we should be thinking about this series:

Devs give some players power
=> Other players want that power
=> Struggles ensue
=> Quests and stories write themselves.  You know, they way history did.

So the key is to have something to fight over.

\"IF there will be a government of some kind, which do something important or whatnot - then why would the devs ever put players in charge of it?\" -Gronomist

\"Seriously, come on. Players deciding how a game is to be run... That just doesn\'t work. I\'m really sorry to tell you, but it doesn\'t.\" -Gronomist

I don\'t know how you can say this.  I\'ve been rping for a number of years, and a good game is the result of GM-Player interaction.  In fact, any GM who doesn\'t also consider himself a player is probably not running a satisfying game.
~~
May all your sequences converge.

Kiern

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« Reply #29 on: February 26, 2005, 08:45:31 pm »
Here\'s a quick write up about the list I just put up.  I\'ll probably edit it a lot.

First, my idea of a government for Planeshift would be that it does NOT control every part of Yliakum.  The Death Realm in particular would remain free from the government, as this would be where most of the evil players/guilds make their home more then likely.  Then, player-built cities would have the option of joining the main government, remaining a free city, or maybe even setting up their own smaller government.  Also smaller cities that would be of no particular use to the government or just want to be isolated would not be included either.

Of course, there would be advantages to joining the main body of government, certain trade lanes would be opened to the cities and they would receive items for a cheaper price and other hard to find items, things such as that.  There would also be disadvantages, as there would be more rules for government-run cities to follow and maybe taxes or entrance fees to the bigger ones, nothing that restricts too much of course or no one would go there.  Along with these disadvantges would come other things, such as better protection from theives (more guards thanks to the taxes)...so people would feel more secure to set up their homes/shops here.  Also, this would decrease the amount of people running around in these cities pestering others for money.

Following the current settings of Planeshift and how the government would be set up, no individual would have complete control over anything, thus eliminating the problem of too much power/corruption.

Bribery is another issue some people may have, but I don\'t really see the problem here, it increases the ability to RP...if someone wanted someone else thrown out of office because they were causing problems for them, set up a plant and try to get them to accept a bribe.  Provide proof of this and boom...this person is thrown out of office and unable to join any other government system as well as any other punishments that is felt as necessary (or FUN).  There are endless complications with this of course, but that is what makes politics so interesting.

As for government members missing, I hardly think that will be much of a problem.  There will of course be some NPC\'s to handle the small aspects of the government (collecting fines, etc.) so the day-to-day will not be hurt...as well as the number of government officials that would be there so that a few people missing wouldn\'t hurt at all.  Then, if someone is missing for so long, someone else would take their place.  For the more important positions, there will be more then enough applicants standing by wanting to fill this position right away.

As buddha said, all this does is increase the RP aspect of the game, yes there will be a lot of fighting, yes there will be a lot of problems with it...and yeah, a lot of people won\'t like it.  Conflict is created, and wars will be fought.  It is a game, after all.

This is just a basic outline of what I think should happen, other aspects like as setting up your own government are of course limited to what will actually be put into the game and could go in to a lot more detal...and as I\'m not a dev there\'s not really a way to get them for sure put in there.

How players are put into position?  That is a tougher question I think...because as I\'ve said sheer popularity does not mean you can help run a government.  It could be like applying for a position to the developing team, you have to write up your ideas, accomplishments, etc.  It is reviewed by a team of people who are not part of the government (so as to be neutral, of course though no one is completely neutral), and then finally a vote is put up...something of that sort.

EDIT:

Favoritism is something else, of course some people will lean more way then the other...that is usually how they win votes and what makes them different from every other person.  Again though, the fact that they are not in complete control of everything stops them from leaning too far one way or the other, as they won\'t win votes and the other government officials will not be likely to listen to them.

Duties may include, setting up taxes, adding on to a city, setting up trade lanes, hiring guards for the cities, trying to decrease crime rate, etc.  Again, a lot of this is dependent as what actually is put into the game.

Quote
Originally posted by Phinehas
I don\'t have a concern, but I really must reiterate the point that almost all the present GM\'s would be totally incompetent to hold political power.


Good to know I\'m not the only person who thought that. :)
« Last Edit: February 26, 2005, 09:07:19 pm by Kiern »