Planeshift government

[dwarf]

Originally posted by buddha
Well, if we\'re talking about having a good role-playing experience, then I don\'t see how we can escape PC run government.

Without the guilds as a major factor, all of the story lines and quests have to come from the devs.  There is simply no other vehicle for quests at the moment.

To create drama and storylines, you need some sort of conflict.  Right now it seems to me we have a bunch of \"evil\" guilds and a bunch of \"good\" guilds, but their interaction is limited to dueling on the plaza once in a while.  There is no real tension between them.

Power struggles are a great way to introduce conflict.  With a good power struggle, you have built-in adventures. Spies, assassins, quests, heros, general, armies, everything.

Where should these power struggles come from?  The natural place is the guilds and/or local governments.  Otherwise we are once again waiting for the devs to come up with one for us.

But now the problem is: what power are they struggling for?  Right now there can be no conflict because there is nothing to \"win\", really.  You have to give them something to fight over.  Tax revenue from a city is a perfect thing to fight over.

So, in my opinion, we should be thinking about this series:

Devs give some players power
=> Other players want that power
=> Struggles ensue
=> Quests and stories write themselves.  You know, they way history did.

So the key is to have something to fight over.

\"IF there will be a government of some kind, which do something important or whatnot - then why would the devs ever put players in charge of it?\" -Gronomist

\"Seriously, come on. Players deciding how a game is to be run... That just doesn\'t work. I\'m really sorry to tell you, but it doesn\'t.\" -Gronomist

I don\'t know how you can say this.  I\'ve been rping for a number of years, and a good game is the result of GM-Player interaction.  In fact, any GM who doesn\'t also consider himself a player is probably not running a satisfying game.

I fully agree with this, i don\'t agree with players being in charge of how the game is, BUT like you said if they have something to fight about it makes for am interesting game.


One of my major concern\'s is favoritism, if a leader of government favours someone of group of people than it just isn\'t fare for those starting or not so active, known by others.

[Efflixi Aduro]

Okay, you guys should really read moogies post before responding. As she said, the top 8 will be made of DEVS and the ones under that will be mainly composed of GMs and people like Kada.

Secodly, no one said the government was democratic. Read the first post, yes, the top 8 will be there until one needs to be replaced by one of the underlings. NOT by a commoner.

The government system couldn\'t be made better.If devs and gm\'s run the government it will keep it steady, but, some people *cough*Xordan*cough* might accept a bribe every once in a while adding some instability to it. And, well, this works out perfectly with a certain plan I have under my sleevs.

A pc run government is the most non-roleplaying thing you could do. You just walk up to a npc thats supposed to be your leader and when you ask him a simple question like \"when where you born?\" They will be totally confused. Also, an npc run goverment will do absolutly nothing. It will just...be...there. As for a player run government, could put up bounties for murdurers and theifs.

Also, the concern of evil guilds losing because good guilds have the govt. on their side. Well, \"evil\" has always had to put up with the government through out history. I am \"evil\" ic and I have no problem with it. And it\'s not like the government can do much to directly effect you...
And, since it will be run by devs I\'m sure they will try to keep an even balance to the situation.

And people should know right now that it wont be easy getting into the government roles and asking is useless. And, besides, andone who stands a chance of getting in should know better than to whine about it.

Don\'t call the govt player run. Call it GM-Dev run

[Kiern]

Originally posted by Efflixi Aduro
Okay, you guys should really read moogies post before responding. As she said, the top 8 will be made of DEVS and the ones under that will be mainly composed of GMs and people like Kada.

And read closer, and realize that nothing to do with Planeshift is definite.  Also that Mogura herself is not sure that is what has been said. (though I will say, it definately has been said that the devs will lead the top 8 but not about the GMs, it doesn\'t mean opinions cannot change)

[Efflixi Aduro]

Okay, and lets say it does change. You think the devs will let in somone who\'s been playing planeshift for a week because there begging to get in?
I don\'t think so. Theyll get ol\'bees like you, kada-el, kixie, etc.

And, who ever said that the government needs to be stable  

Edit: Kiern, grats on being a gm in the bug/problems section btw. I didn\'t notice it

[Kiern]

Ok, I think I misunderstood your post.  I wish it were that way, because those people are generally more dependable.  But anyways, there are people I\'ve never seen before as GMs...I don\'t think it would be that far flung to think it might happen with the government system.

I\'m just a mod there, and I didn\'t even realize it for a while.

[Valbrandr]

With everything said I do not agree with it.  PS should not have a government unless it has clear objectives and one is to not limit the players in any way... we are controlled enough in rl and I cannot comprehend why we would need one and what they would do.  And.. if you didnt have to join but benefits would be made to guilds who did... many would give up some of their sovereignty for benefits.  Not what I want.

[Efflixi Aduro]

Originally posted by Kiern
Ok, I think I misunderstood your post.  I wish it were that way, because those people are generally more dependable.  But anyways, there are people I\'ve never seen before as GMs...I don\'t think it would be that far flung to think it might happen with the government system.

I\'m just a mod there, and I didn\'t even realize it for a while.

I see a lot of gm\'s in game that I have never seen before eighther. What\'s up with that?
dev:Ennie meenie miny moe....*points at somone* Hey you
Some guy:yah?
dev:wanna be a gm?
some guy:sure, oh 133t!!!!

J/K I guess those are people that where ingame a lot in mb so they where chosen as cb gms since they will be in game a lot.

Now, back on topic.
Valbrqandar the government wont consist of guilds. And if you\'re worryed about this interfering with the urps it wont. This is totally seperate from the guilds and stuff.

[Valbrandr]

I am not worried about the URPS... because we are not a government... and we will move on either way.  But the URPS is kept together because guilds want to be apart of it.  Who will be driving the government.  What is the purpose and who will be hampered by it?

[buddha]

Val, if I may call you Val,

I respectfully disagree.  Unless we have large entities in conflict with each other in some way, the world will be a bland bland place.  How many times can you go see Jayose?

If there is a \"bad\" government, we will have Robin Hoods to take them down.  If the government is just, there will be some power mad general trying to usurp it.

If the guilds get large and have no power, then they are effectively not a guild.  If they get large and have power, then they are effectively a government.  My main point is that there must be power struggles of some form.  Otherwise we\'re all searching for Tefusang teeth until the day we die.

As far as the devs controlling the govenment.  I think that\'s fine at first.  Especially now, since you may as well declare yourself the King of Scotch Tape.  Noone has any real power.  Once the game gets going, I imagine they will start letting other people in.

Think of it this way: government by devs is no government.  What are they governing?  Is there a lack of fresh water into Hydlaa?  Once they start making decisions about which player can sell weapons in the city, they become players.

[Kiern]

Originally posted by Valbrandr
But the URPS is kept together because guilds want to be apart of it.  Who will be driving the government.  What is the purpose and who will be hampered by it?

Well, if my idea were to be followed, all of this is listed in my post.  Just to make things simple...

1) Individual cities, at first it would just be set up by the devs that certain cities are controlled by the government, while others are not...then later, new cities would be able to make the decision as well as the government deciding if they want them.

2)  Purpose is listed throughout my post, so I won\'t put a long list here

3)  Who will be hampered?  It depends on how you play...but as I said in my post, there will be plenty of places not controlled by this government, so no one really.  Just certain places/things will be more difficult to get.  And everything can\'t be simple, or it\'s just incredibly boring.

Again, not necessarily how it would happen.

[dwarf]

I misunderstood what was ment by player run gov\'t til now. I thought it ment regular players running things, BUT with only devs and GM\'s running it things would be pritty good.

I mean they could decide to make something happen like taxes sky rocket so the people could revolt, OR even kill off a leader to make a reward or hunt for killer.

[Incenjucar]

...But...

....How do you ... revolt.. against.. GMs?

All I can see happening is people will just not GO to towns.

[Tharizdun]

Originally posted by Incenjucar
...But...

....How do you ... revolt.. against.. GMs?

All I can see happening is people will just not GO to towns.

Well.. you see.. its like this. There are all sorts of herbs, lichens, fungi and other things growing in the deep dank places that tend to have negative effects when introduced into the circulatory system of many critters.. you get my drift? A few drops of this on a crossbow bolt fired from a dark alleyway, and GM or no, there will be one less meddling Octarch causing trouble and poking their snout where its not welcomed.

Or if the focus of the resident government shifts towards oppression and tyranny, there will be freedom fighters and vigilantes lurking around trying to set things right.

I could also envision two seperate city-nations going to war against each other over the ownership of a gold mine, farmlands or river that both want to possess in exclusivity. Plenty of opportunity for good RP, mercenary groups forming and selling their services, spies and assassins working in both camps, and much pillaging and looting to be had by all..

[Efflixi Aduro]

Originally posted by Incenjucar
...But...

....How do you ... revolt.. against.. GMs?

All I can see happening is people will just not GO to towns.

Well, I\'m not gonna stand up to a government so you can expect some assasinations
I\'m sure other evil and chaotic aligned people will too.

[Kiva]

Originally posted by Efflixi Aduro
Well, I\'m not gonna stand up to a government so you can expect some assasinations
I\'m sure other evil and chaotic aligned people will too.

Mind if I ask how you would possibly assassinate someone, when you need your victim to accept the challenge first?

Originally posted by Incenjucar
...But...

....How do you ... revolt.. against.. GMs?

All I can see happening is people will just not GO to towns.

You don\'t go against GMs, because GMs will have nothing to do with this, however, people who have GM chars might be part of this whole thing, yet their GM char has nothing to do with it. If you tell someone they\'re stupid because of their beliefs and ways of doing things, they can\'t pull out their GM char and punish you for it, as that is a) abuse of power and b) abuse of power. If something isn\'t reported, or seen personally by the GM character, it can\'t be punished. Simple as that. And I\'m pretty sure most of the current GMs wouldn\'t be smart enough to submit a petition before re-logging in with their GM char to kick/ban you for being annoying.

Anyway, this whole government thing is years away from now. Why bother being so concerned about it already?