Author Topic: Planeshift government  (Read 3703 times)

CadRipper

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« Reply #45 on: February 27, 2005, 04:48:15 pm »
A few remarks.

What to do?

Each octarch is responsible for one level. As far as I know, there\'s only a part of one level now, so what do we do about that? That leaves the 20 Vigesimi, unless you redefine the role of the octarchs to take care, for instance, of different issues in the current world (which would probably need to rewrite a part of the setting - a first in many years if I\'m not mistaken). Their role definitely needs to be more precisely defined before conjecturing any further.

The game is currently not balanced and crafting experimental, so everything related to economics, politics, ... does not have a strong enough basis to start with.

But it remains an interesting experience to try, and it certainly shouldn\'t stop us from imagining how it will be in the future. I think Talad only should give his opinion on when he sees this happening, and possibly what it will imply in practice.

Who to choose indeed?

Developers? Certainly not, they don\'t mix with the community and simply don\'t have the time. Perhaps they can show us the path, and guide the octarchs when they have some spare time for that, which will be extremely rare.

\"Dedicated, regular\" players? Be careful, there\'s no such a candidate in the first place. The only persons I know who have stayed with Planeshift long enough are not playing it regularly, only sometimes when something new appears. Most people show a burst of interest then leave. Others take it at a slower pace and stick around, keeping in touch rather than being involved in anything for the long term. It is possible, but they will have to take turns and be dependable enough to fulfil this role during their term.

Game Masters? Why not, that\'s part of their job, you don\'t think GMs are only there for OOC/moderation, do you? Theoretically, they should be formed to help players having a better experience, organise events, and coordinate the whole functionality of the game. Governing one level is probably better done with this goal in mind. It would ask that a handful of them dedicate most of their time being IC GMs, i.e. not moderating the OOC aspects of the game because it\'s not compatible. Thus, handing over that part of the job to other GMs. Because of that, and since the same remarks as above also apply, they will have to take turns.

How to choose?

If there are several thousands of players, I can only see the selection being done in several steps if we want to be fair. The chosen persons should be experienced Planeshift players (being involved at such a level without knowing people would be bad), have solid organisational skills and good leadership qualities. They should be interested in that aspect of the game, and able to dedicate enough time (i.e. possibly handing over guild leadership/occupation to someone else during that time).

Draklar

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« Reply #46 on: February 27, 2005, 05:15:33 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by CadRipper
Game Masters? Why not, that\'s part of their job, you don\'t think GMs are only there for OOC/moderation, do you?
I do :P
It was said in another thread to not rp with GMs because they have other things to do. And if they don\'t moderate, that means they are no different than regular players. Said that why disadvantages of dedicated, regular players don\'t apply for GMs as well?
I don\'t see how any GM (excluding you, Cad) is more worthy of such position than say Kwartz or Grono.
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Kiern

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« Reply #47 on: February 27, 2005, 05:44:26 pm »
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Originally posted by Draklar
And if they don\'t moderate, that means they are no different than regular players. Said that why disadvantages of dedicated, regular players don\'t apply for GMs as well?
I don\'t see how any GM (excluding you, Cad) is more worthy of such position than say Kwartz or Grono.


Right.  GMs were basically chosen by how they were helping new people...I don\'t see how this makes them dependable government officials.  Others who would fit perfect for the job just don\'t have the patience or want to be a GM, and would just rather roleplay or play the game without worrying about all the other things that come with that position.

And yeah, this won\'t happen for a long time...but I don\'t see the harm in bringing it up now so that there is at least some idea as to what needs to be put in so that this isn\'t totally forgotten about.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2005, 05:45:37 pm by Kiern »

CadRipper

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« Reply #48 on: February 27, 2005, 06:28:07 pm »
They were chosen among advisors on doubtful criteria, and other people would do great GMs if they didn\'t have to go through that, I think we all agree. But I\'m not necessarily talking about fresh new GMs.
Quote
Originally posted by CadRipper
Theoretically, they should be formed to help players having a better experience, organise events, and coordinate the whole functionality of the game. Governing one level is probably better done with this goal in mind.

If they have already been selected and promoted, they should be dependable. So I don\'t exclude other players, but I wouldn\'t exclude them either as most of you seem to do. If not as main actors, possibly as support and guides to make sure the whole idea keeps on tracks. I don\'t believe that the described system could get anywhere if it was left to the players alone.

You simply have a wrong idea of what their role truly is, because up to now they have not been given a chance to show that side despite my efforts. It has been said in this other thread that players shouldn\'t RP with them when they are moderating, but also that they could have IC roles as long as they don\'t have to mix both activities at the same time. This is common in other games.

Once again, having a more precise definition of the roles is necessary before fully discussing this issue. To me, it seems to be a mix of IC/OOC matters for which an interaction with some kind of authority is necessary.

Kiern

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« Reply #49 on: February 27, 2005, 06:44:12 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by CadRipper
Once again, having a more precise definition of the roles is necessary before fully discussing this issue. To me, it seems to be a mix of IC/OOC matters for which an interaction with some kind of authority is necessary.


Definately.  I was speaking more of the current system of GMs based on what I have seen.  I agree that, if Planeshift were to do the system as other games, that they would work out well in helping/being a part of the government.  But again, it can\'t be relied on that fact that Planeshift will necessarily go in that direction.

Basically I just think the criteria for becoming a government official should be the same for both GMs and regular players.  But at the same time other GMs not suitable for those positions or they simply don\'t want to be there can be used to monitor for abuse and basically do the OOC stuff while the people of the government do the IC.  I guess they both could be considered GMs, but their purpose/criteria would be different.

(hopefully I understood correctly what you said. ;) )
« Last Edit: February 27, 2005, 06:45:20 pm by Kiern »

Draklar

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« Reply #50 on: February 27, 2005, 09:31:03 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by CadRipper
It has been said in this other thread that players shouldn\'t RP with them when they are moderating, but also that they could have IC roles as long as they don\'t have to mix both activities at the same time. This is common in other games.
I thought that\'s what you have alt characters for...
And if that is true then it doesn\'t differ whether someone is GM or not.

Also I\'ve been playing certain MUD for a while, where everything (including cities) was ran by players. It worked very well. Of course mmorpg communities are different from MUD ones, but that doesn\'t exclude it as a possibility.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2005, 09:32:38 pm by Draklar »
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Efflixi Aduro

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« Reply #51 on: February 28, 2005, 12:13:21 am »
Quote
Originally posted by Gronomist
Quote
Originally posted by Efflixi Aduro
Well, I\'m not gonna stand up to a government so you can expect some assasinations :)
I\'m sure other evil and chaotic aligned people will too.


Mind if I ask how you would possibly assassinate someone, when you need your victim to accept the challenge first?


Very, very carfully...  ;)

Well actually... *is still trying to get open pk*

:(
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buddha

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« Reply #52 on: February 28, 2005, 12:18:34 am »
I think now is the perfect time to be talking about the governmental system.  Most of us have programmed, right?  You want to have as much as possible of your thinking done before your write your code.  Presumably, no decisions have been made on this, so it\'s good time to think about it.

This is what I view as crucial.  Political power must be
1. Transferable
2. Seizable
3. Costly.

Let me illustrate.  The worst case scenario (in my opinion) is this: A friend of a dev becomes absolute despot over all of PS.  Everyone hates him and he never logs on.  IN fact, he loses interest in the game.

Well, (1) ensures that if he gets bored, he can hand it over to the next guy.  (2) ensures that if we don\'t like what he\'s doing, we can have a revolution or coupe.  (3) means only people who are fairly serious will apply.

By (3), I mean things like
a: you are open to assassination.  that is, you have \"accept duel\" automatically set.  This should hold for any public office, no matter how small.  In fact, I think there is a broad class of people who should have to obey this, but...

b: If you don\'t log in for a certain amount of time, (like 3 real days or something depending on the office) you lose your power and it is transferred to some pre-set person or a GM is called in to make a decision.

With these, I think the question of who to pick initially will be moot.  If the power is seizable, then eventually it will change hands.  The whole world could then evolve in interesting and unexpected ways.
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