Shakespearean English

[Kaseijin]

i always imagine dwarfs speaking with a tinge of classical pirate thing
a little more refined... but with a dose of grunts and \'arrrr\'-s. Dwarfs will be very polite and friendly to people they deem as respectful. However if they are addressed by a rude person, dwarf is more likely to go into the pirate/hostile mode of speach.
Actually it doesn\'t matter what language grammar they use it\'s the way they use it. Elves would use the correct grammar with more complex sentences and dose of corectness if not politness towards the listener. In english this is usually manifested by using Old English as it is more gramatically rigid then the modern, however i don\'t think it\'s the only way. Also elves have more tendency to give lectures. That\'s why darklar plays a perfect elf. This is meant purely as a compliment, darklar.

[Draklar]

Thanks, although compliments sound better without names misspelled )

Also, I started reading some of Shakespeare\'s works, catching some more rules. Added to opening post.

[John_Thazer]

Originally posted by AendarCallenlasse
Better yet, what the hell does Shakespearean English have to do with fantasy roleplay?

Hm...did you notice all dragons speak Shakespearean English...Dragons -> Fantasy..

I know, a great idea...let\'s have a section in the forums where you only allowed to speak Shakespearean English and Trollspeak...wouldn\'t it be fun...

[Socrates Demise]

Draklar,

Great post on how early Modern English should be used.

However I must still stand behind what I said  Here.

I feel it can be distracting to hear The King\'s English.

I however see nothing wrong with wanting you character to speak this old dialect especially for an elf or other being that could easily be very old especially if the character like Draklar\'s has a tendency to cling to the old ways.

I feel by the tone of this post that you do not insist that everyone uses this version of English in the game.  I am glad that you are only teaching and not pushing his language.

I have tried it out for myself, but I spell horribly and have so many typos that understanding my late Modern English can at times be difficult.  

I know I\'m just splitting hairs here but PlaneShift\'s setting is supposed to be medieval, and Shakespeare was part of the renaissance (the time period that marks the end of the Middle Ages).  A more appropriate form of English would be Middle English like Geoffrey Chaucer\'s The Canterbury Tales.  That however would be even more difficult to understand. But I say if you want to try it go ahead.

All things said.. Good job on the tutorial. :tup:

[Asenar Lunin]

thanks a lot for this very usefull post, specially for non-english native user

[Hadfael]

Thou ast ye kyning

At least, even if I don\'t plan to master this tongue and every language of each world I visit, it can help me to understand you.
Some may object that it\'s harder for us, strangers, to understand. But I really think it\'s easier to understand for me than many slangs I heard in Yliakum (and not only in the taverns).

After all it\'s up to each one to use the language of his/her choice. Just keeping in mind that if you want to be understood, it can be useful to think about the listener.
This is a valid rule for the language used and the way you type it. Since using caps makes things harder to read (according to serious studies) don\'t be surprised if people don\'t understand you. I think the same goes for the language used. When I talk to someone speaking french, it\'s easier for me to talk with him in french as it will be easier for him to understand me.

OOC: Being IC is in what you say more than in how you say it. Some slangs can be wrong since they are linked to a particular background, like 1337. Those are the ones to be banned from a conversation in the taverns on a RPG.

Boh Tabei everyone.

[Rallelalli]

Many words of wisdom have I seen here, and many thoughts have been manifested. The one I hold dearest is expressed by the thought of being IC is not what you say, but what emotion that is put into it.
How you react to something, what it means to you, not the language you use, seems more important to me. I fare not well with the high language, so will hardly ever try to use it. However, that does not mean that I am dimwitted, nor does it mean that I resent those that speak in such a manner.
I am not RP a well educated noble, but a warrior that has been well-traveled and seen many things, has had to deal with the strange as well as the mighty, but proper language was not a high priority with me, just the ability to understand and muddle my way through.

Draklar, your post will help many who wish to know this high language, and for that you deserve thanks, but try to understand that not all will speak in such a manner, because it is not their nature to do so. I hope next time we meet, you will return my greeting.

[Draklar]

How I wish I would get to know why people accuse me of enforcing this language on others...
First I heard that just because I used it.
Now I hear it because I made thread, which I was asked to make (also I added that it is only for people who want to learn it).
I know it is just misunderstanding, but none the less there would be no such misunderstandings without making false assumptions or simply by asking about it.

Also I can\'t agree on the IC thing.

Roleplaying means behaving as your char would. That means having certain reactions to various things, certain aims and certain way of communicating - way of speaking strongly reflects char\'s personality as well as education or social status.
You can\'t say \"this is more important than that\". When roleplaying you should always aim to develop your character as much as you can, without regards of what is more important and what is not (unless you plan to develop some things after another), but rather of what you are able to do and what not.
It doesn\'t take me long to develop personality of my char. I try to understand its mentality and when I manage to do that, everything is quite easy. The only thing I was lacking was the correct speech. As english isn\'t my native language, I had no idea about rules of the older form of english. But still I tried to find as many sources as I could to learn it. This thread is only for the purpose of teaching it to people, who like me, want to learn it. I just try to save them all the searching I had to go through.

[Hadfael]

Misunderstanding is the core of the problem

You can\'t (or maybe you can) imagine in how many troubles I went because of my poor vocabulary.

And I am sure this thread will be useful to farmers like me who need to talk with noble people.

[Dradynmor]

Just some objective thoughts here, or so I would like to think:

Aendar - Shakespearian English has as much of a place in PlaneShift as does.... say..... Tolkien\'s Sindarin Elvish? I don\'t mean to criticize, here, only to illustrate that your use of words like \"Calen Vakhar\" could be considered as cliche by an outsider as Shakespearian English.

The reason Shakespearian English has come to be used is that it is an older variant of English itself. Traditionally, role-players have used this to separate nobility from commoners, or older races from more modern ones. English, representatively, is the \"basic\" language of the game, because everyone understands it (it would be cumbersome and unreasonable to ask everyone to learn a new language for role-playing value), so variants of it represent variants of the \"basic\" language analogously.

There have been a lot of role-playing discussions here recently, about what is and is not acceptable. The one about vampires comes to mind. Who is to say that vampires don\'t exist in PlaneShift? Certainly taverns, and ale, and gods, and temples, and swords and shields, and other medieval things do - why not medieval urban legends? Why not ghosts and spirits? Vampires are by no means modern, having originated with stories in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries.

I think the real role-playing cliches here is that everything is \"old\" and specifically set in Middle-Ages Europe. Who is to say that Yliakum could not exist in this era in history? Right now? Or even in the distant future? So there are no guns or other technology. So what? Marco Polo obviously didn\'t make it to Yliakum. What else have we proven?

There are several things that will always exist in a free online game. Vampires and l33t commandos notwithstanding, all the groups have to learn to live in harmony. If you don\'t want someone doing something, don\'t encourage it or pay attention. The real test of role-playing is reacting to something distasteful in-character instead of breaking role to scold or posting about them on a message board.

Just my two cents. ^^,

[Draklar]

Originally posted by Dradynmor
Who is to say that vampires don\'t exist in PlaneShift?

Devs.
Anyway, this is off-topic, please don\'t carry it on...

[Dradynmor]

While admittedly the vampire example has grown a bit tired, and perhaps was a shabby choice to illustrate my point, my over-arching message was that everyone is spending far too much time telling everyone else how to role-play. It\'s difficult enough to play one character correctly and immersively if you really think about it. I don\'t see how you all have time to try to play everyone else\'s for them as well.

The last three paragraphs of that post are not off-topic, but generalized to discuss a trend that I think this is but one part of. I don\'t think the trend merits a new thread, so I chose to discuss it here, while it would have as reasonably fit anywhere else. The point that was intended was the first two paragraphs, where you\'ll notice I did nothing but defend the use of Shakespearian English (topic of the thread, no?) in role-playing games.

Let me conclude by re-stating my position, since apparently it is unclear:

I have no problem with Shakespearian English being used by anyone who wants to use it. Furthermore, I generalize this statement to vampires, n00b guilds, and powerleveling. There is beautiful potential for \"Free-Form\" RolePlaying in PlaneShift and I would hate to see it destroyed simply because of overbearing restrictions or the tendency to not let people be.

[Draklar]

Again, this is off topic. Please take such posts to the roleplaying thread, which was created for the purpose of such discussion.

This thread is just for learning the language, not discussing roleplaying in general.