How-To keep the poly count low in wings 3d

[Cyl]

Well I myself often encountered the problem of keeping the Polycount as low useing Wings3d. So I post a little Guideline here  (They may be usable in other programms than wings, but I personally dont really know) First I will explain the princip of it than I will show them in a short tutorial

1. Create faces only where they are needed:
    When I was new to wings I used to create plenty of faces \"on purpose\" so that I could use them later. Not a good idea. In wings you can easily place faces, vertices and edges were you need them with first useing the cut-command (edge layer), which cuts an edge in parts of the same length (and creating vertices there of course), and then connecting the newly gained vertices with the connect-command (vertex layer)

2, Smoothing without making unnecessary faces:
    Wings3d has a useful Smooth-function, it does anything automatically but it has a downside it can make the poly count of an object up to 5 times as high (or even higher) as it is, and sometimes it makes wierd things (unwanted wierd things). You can easily smooth edges per hand with the Bevel-command (the one in edge layer, not face layer!) This will add an face there were the edge was, making it look much smoother and just adding 1 to 5 Polys.

3. Uniting unnecesarry faces by dissolving Edges:
    Even if you are using the cut-connecting trick and the smoothing trick there will be unnecesarry faces (for instance faces which are just a parted bigger face. You can reunite thes by dissolving the edges between them by either pressing del backspc while the edges are selected or by using the dissolve command.  Warning: BE CAREFUL NOT TO DISSOLVE WRONG EDGES OR YOU MAY ENCOUNTER PROBLEMS WITH TESSELATION AND RENDERING

Now I will explain those tips from above at an example: a simple blade (without hilt and so, it\'s just for explaining the thigns above)

1. It\'s up to you, but I usually start off with an cube and selecting the four faces around.



2. Cut the faces in two parts (cut - > 2 | 2), then select pairwise those on one sid and connect them by either useing the connect command or \"c\" key and then deselect them and select those on the other side. Dont wonder if the edges wont show up, they are probably hidden under the grid, deactivate it to check

3. Now select the two new edges which lie on opposite sites of the cube then swap to vertex mode and scale them on the axis normal to them (x axis if the edges are paralell to the z axis and so)


4. Now we will make the blade a bit narrower in the middle (This makes it somehow more ellegant, IMO, I dont know if it has any reason, I am no weapon specialist) select the four edges in the middle of the blade and cut them into three parts (3 | 3) and then connect them (Either connect them pairwise or dissolve the edges on the front and back after you connect them)

5. now sellect the vertices that we made the last step (by parting into 3 Parts) and scale them on the axis which lies normal on the top of the blade (usually Y) (make it narrower) (Look at picture 6 for help)



6. Select the face in front and exturde it normally, scale it on the axis that is paralell to it (make it smaller there) then connect the two vertices on the end of the edge.



7. Cut this new edge into 5 and connect the new vertices with the matching one on the top and bottom.



8. Move the 3 inner edges a bit out and then the innermost again a bit out.



9. Last but not least select the edges that are on the top and the bottom and use the Bevel command (in edged layer not face!) and eventually resize the whole thing a bit.



And here we have an quite suitable blade with an Poly count of 91, if you think of contributing your work to PS you have to tesselate it triangular then it possibly will have 192, but it\'s still low.

[Efflixi Aduro]

Very usefull I think it should get stickied for people who want to contribute to ps.

[SnowWolf]

Another technique to reduce polycount is to imitate multiple faces with a really good texture - that\'s a whole different how-to though. ^^

P.S. I\'m not sure if you can use textures in wings 3d - sorry if this comments is off-topic.

[Merdarion]

Hmm well it seems useful.

[Cyl]

No, no Snow Wolf, it\'s On Topic, I just dont have any know how on texturing/2D Art and so I cant give any tips about it.

Wings3d has a texturing function, it\'s just a bit wierd.

[ArcaneFalcon]

91 polys for a simple blade?  That is far from low-poly.  12 or 18 would be low poly, not 91.  I think most of the weapons in-game weigh in at less than 91 polys(especially the axes).  

:emerald:

[Cyl]

From Arcane Falcon
3. KEEP THE POLY COUNT LOW - Simple objects should have no more than 200 triangle faces (make sure you are counting triangle faces and not square/quad faces), simple creatures or more complex objects should be around 400-800 polys, and characters should have 1k-2k polys (2k in some extreme cases, aim for 1k).

according to you 200 is suitable for simple meshes. Well but you are right, while explaining the whole methos I forgot to keep the whole thing simple. Hmm well, if you want to have it lower you need to work more with textures.

Well being minimalistic in any occasion and cutting anything off what isnt needed a sword has 127 Triangular Polys, but it looks like the kokiri sword of Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time for N64, so I think 91 Polys for a blade and maybe 70 in addition for the hilt is suitable.

Well Poly Count is related to the complexity of the object, the broad sword in PS is such a Kokiri thing IMO.

And well normally an objects polycount doubles through tesselation so a blade with 9 polygons has to be tremendously minimalistic.

Well the sense of this thread is not how to make low polycount objects, but how to optimize objects without simplifying them.

[ArcaneFalcon]

First of all, that blade doesn\'t have 91 triangles, it has 176.  Second, 200 is a limit, and a simple weapon should be ~100-150 max.  Third, all that detail will never be seen in-game and only adds weight to rendering.  The fuller can be done completely with the texture, or it can be done with a v groove of polys.  You shouldn\'t need more than 10 or so polys for it.  That blade is even smoother than stuff you\'d see in EQ2.

:emerald:

[Cyl]

Good, convinced! I will redo the tutorial later, I dont have the spirit now.

btw. those things are around 250 Triangular, would that be a suitable Polycount for them?

[ArcaneFalcon]

I\'d have to see wireframes of them, but it looks like each has at least a couple places that polycounts could be reduced (mainly in the 8 sided poles/handles).  The halberd might be ok at 200, but the rest should definitely be less.

What are those 2 in the X?  I\'ve never seen them before.  Do you have a reference picture?

:emerald:

[Cyl]

Naginatas, http://www.knifecenter.com/knifecenter/cas/images/1020gtj.jpg

Well but I thought that 4 sided hilts would be a bit to edgy, none of them goes above 270 though.

The Naginata has 172 or so (One of course)

The spear was pretty hard, though to make.

[ArcaneFalcon]

Ah yes.  When I think naginata I think of something more like this: http://www.freepgs.com/falcon/psimages/naginata.jpg (that\'s some of my earlier stuff so don\'t tell me about it needing work, I\'m well aware).  Just a bit different blade, though.

About polys, mine is 95 triangles.  I think 172 is overkill personally, and that you could do the same basic shape with a much lower poly count.

Edit: It\'s not a bad tutorial, but I just can\'t let people go around thinking a blade with that many polys is acceptable.  Keep up the wings stuff, you\'re obviously getting better.  Try doing some other (non-weapon) stuff (like creatures or random items).  Remember to use reference photos (you seem pretty good about that) and remember that small details can be put into a texture.

:emerald:

[SnowWolf]

Don\'t let it get you down Cyl - I like the tutorial! ^^ You should write for LWW.

[orogor]

honestly  200 polys  is quite low , and you can t  just make up a  figure with 18 tris , cause 12  is  a cube, so you d have something a little  better than a cube.

About texturing in  wings it has already been covered in the art forum but this was quite longo ago, and i dont think than it s weird or something lot of peoples actualy find  wings uvmapping quite good.

You have to press press  UVmapping while  in object mode , it s the last item in the menu ( ithink), then you select  edges , and mark them  for cut or , select the  faces and asign them a color. then  press unwarp and you are done, after you just have to arrange all the parts.
( i recomend to select  the  faces/edges before  starting the uv mapping, then  save the selection, then recall it again when uvmapping)

When  it s done you right click and  chose make texture, then it will appear in the ouliner, after that you can export it at the same time  than your object , or choose make external, then modify the external pic with gimp or so , and then  click refresh after eatch change.

to propertly work with the texture  in gimp i suggest you than the  very first step you do  is duplicate the layer, and set it to some low transparency , so you still have the references of the faces  while painting.

[ArcaneFalcon]

Orogor: Pretty much the simplest a blade can get is 12 tris (a diamond with a pyramid tip).  For the blade on a simple sword that should be adequate.  If you look at the in-game models the claymore has 12 faces on the blade, and the broad sword has 18 it looks like (maybe a few more, I can\'t tell).  Obviously, ornate/fantasy-like weapons or more complicated weapons are going to have more.  I guess it\'s kind of hard to assign a hard number to anything without seeing the desired effect first.

My point is that a lot of poly-saving detail can be put into the texture.  There\'s no need to waste polys on details that won\'t be seen, or can be put into the texture.

:emerald: