Is there a map of the planeshift overworld/underworld somewhere?

[Mythryndel]

Would an experienced explorer EVER go out someplace he/she has never been without rudimentary tools like a compass? Not likely. Sailors on the open sea use tools to navigate by the stars. Giving players a compass is NOT a spoiler and does NOT take anything at all away from the game. As with REAL terrain that looks the same, it is VERY easy to get turned around and not know what direction you are facing... a Compass would fix this problem and at least give you the tools necessary to explore efficiently/effectively. I've been here a year and STILL get lost occasionally if I veer too far off the paths I've learned to Oja or BD...

The in-game maps are nice, but without reference points... or using the OOC /pos command... they are somewhat limited in usefulness.

If you want to use the in-game mapping system, and run windows, check out Tontow's map maker... http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=33954.0

[Odoarrel]

Staying in character and intuitively knowing your way around a place you have never been are mutually exclusive. If you don't know where you are it encourages interaction. Don't get your hopes up about the premade maps. You'd be best asking a member of the explorers guild for example if they have any decent maps for sale. Regardless, in a week or two you'll know your way around. Enjoy

I realize there is map creation - this isn't to take away from those that profit, this is merely to point out to us n00bs such simple things like were just explained - most people consider North the windowless tower. Sweet! How cool is that to know? And when  you say most people that's good enough for me, however the maps people make are going to be the gold (for them, and the people that need / use them) so why not just give people a n/s/e/w circlet or landmark information of some kind to give them a nudge out the door, knowledge that they can buy a map, and presto - happy people everywhere doing all the things we've all discussed on both sides of the coin! Just stop and really think about some of the comments that have been made here regarding the uselessness of maps or direction, the reasons why, then go and apply it to an entirely new situation that an NPC tells you "Oh it's East of here next to such and such". You can say just ask all you want. I might be someone who has no fear of such, you might be, but many many others prefer to get their bearings first before feeling comfortable interacting and having fun getting deeper into the RP and friendships of these kinds of places.

I just think this is a masterpiece in the making and I think it would be a shame if a large amount of people that are easily discouraged were kept from it by something so simple.

I am not certain, but I think people are equating giving someone new some startup information as a bad thing. Giving people some fun but doable quests to attain a compass whether by purchase or achievement, that would then aid them in their lives here is vital for what I have seen so far. The ruins errand for Lori - are you kidding me? Personally ok great - for your average 50% mmorpg crowd? Yeah... taking several days to find your first one or two quests isn't going to keep a whole lot of newcomers. A lot of people are nervous about asking for help right away. I am very fortunate that a very nice (and quite attractive ) person helped me with the ruins, which is why I go ahead and make this point one last time.  

I am enjoying it, and have found some very helpful people. I think many are missing the point however. So I will just drop it and leave it be. Hopefully people will really read through the posts I made and glean from them what I am trying to get across. Thank you very much for the welcome and no worries - I'm definitely sticking around. I want to find out what my magic will look llike and what I can conjure up!

Anyway just food for thought. I gotta git back to it so I can finish this up and get back to work later

Take care,
Odoarrel

P.S. The art to not listening to your wife is listening very carefully to every word so that when your selective hearing kicks in later - you  can be prepared for whatever repercussions may be headed your way for your insolence, thereby providing a chance for really good makeup - err... stuff later  

[Parallo]

Would an experienced explorer EVER go out someplace he/she has never been without rudimentary tools like a compass? Not likely. Sailors on the open sea use tools to navigate by the stars. Giving players a compass is NOT a spoiler and does NOT take anything at all away from the game. As with REAL terrain that looks the same, it is VERY easy to get turned around and not know what direction you are facing... a Compass would fix this problem and at least give you the tools necessary to explore efficiently/effectively. I've been here a year and STILL get lost occasionally if I veer too far off the paths I've learned to Oja or BD...

The in-game maps are nice, but without reference points... or using the OOC /pos command... they are somewhat limited in usefulness.

If you want to use the in-game mapping system, and run windows, check out Tontow's map maker... http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=33954.0

There are plenty of discussions on the difficulty of using cardinal directions. In fact, East Hydlaa is named so for a person. I don't think we have compasses.

[Mythryndel]

To be honest... I had wondered about "East" Hydlaa... that is just confusing if you bother to stop and think about it... and the fact that it is opposite "North" Hydlaa... So... um... if there aren't supposed to be "cardinal directions"... why are they referenced different places in-game?

Please take from my post the point that even seasoned explorers do not simply set off into the wild without some basic tools. People who do that often become meals on legs for Bears and the like when they get lost and can't get back to civilization. It is unrealistic to expect people (IC) to never want to know what direction they are heading... turn right/left will only get you so far without having to show someone the way personally... which isn't always a possibility. Also, having the best map in the world won't help you much without being able to tell, at a minimum, which way you are facing once you are already lost...

[verden]

I asked and received the answer below from Rizin. But it is honestly confusing. These in game signs were added recently, and someone knew that calling it East would be confusing. There are going to be directions, no matter what they are called.

We do not have cardinal directions. The "East" from Hydlaa is actually named after someone (the answer can be found in game). Any cardinal directions referenced in game, if they still exist, will be phased out and replaced with something new in the future.

http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=34192.0

[khoridor]

Staying in character and intuitively knowing your way around a place you have never been are mutually exclusive.

This is why I ask someone to hit me on the head really hard just before I try a new character.

Seriously, there is an urgent need to make a low level spell of Crystal Way that briefly shows you the direction of the Crystal.

Realism?
- Player made maps, fine. But they are not character skill based, are they?
- RL maps cost a fortune when they were handmade. A new character couldn't afford one, if he could find one.
- Ask for help? Sure. With 30 persons connected, that's 20 in towns, 4 in the DR and 5 mining. How often do you think you meet someone in the wilds?
- If their are PC made maps, why isn't there any NPC made map?
- What use is a map without a compass, in the wilds?
- With the level of magic that exists in Yliakum, the absence of stars and sky or other direction clues, the little number of roads, the common use of caravans and the importance of travel, someone must have invented a pointing system. Even if only based on the observation of nature.

I can give you several reasons why I barely play these days, all technical and temporary. I can also give you several reasons why all of the friends I introduced to PS didn't get into it, and all are seasoned RPers (talking 30+ years experience here). So when you hear new players trying to stay despite the frustrations, and asking for something very simple, this should be taken as a serious, and more importantly urgent matter. I cannot imagine how many gave up already because running in the wild was just the opposite of fun.

[Bamko]

Ok, no one is reading my posts, so I gather you just want to complain and not actually learn anything new.

In any event. Mythryndel, so you are telling me that before there was compasses, no one ever explored anywhere?  Really?  You would of thought people would still look around.

Knowing where crystal is: not a bad idea, as long as ppl understand it is a point, not a direction. 

We are in a stalagtite, so no stars, no sun, and maybe no north and south.  heck, maybe no magnetism at all.

Mythryndel and others, you still get lost after a year when you get off the beaten trail?  Either you get lost like that in real life (I know a few who get lost if they turn into a parking lot they never been in before) OR MAYBE, just MAYBE you should at least LOOK at your camera settings like I KEEP TELLING YOU.  For example, you can see the hill with the rocks that hold the pool of stealth from Just about ANYWHERE in oja1 (unless your options are set WRONG).  If you can not use it as a reference, then check your camera settings OR zip it already because you do not want to find an answer, you just want to complain.

Ingame I find about half of the day one Newbs can figure this out, yet here I am having to repeat myself.

I do not like having to repeat myself.

If however you can see the Mount of stealth (what I call that hill) from anywhere, and you just do not pay attention to it but keep running in circles, well, that is hardly a game deficiency, is it?

watching this post, one would assume the maps are HUGE and with no landmarks.  Fix the camera settings when outside of hydlaa and look around a little before you run off that cliff. 

I think I have repeated myself enough.

Maps, they exist ingame. Want more?  Make more. Can not navigate though a map after dozens of tries? what are you using as a point of reference?  it is a speck on your monitor?

Open your options and look around a bit.  SO far almost every time it has been a setting in options, though a few times it has been a setting in the Brain of a N00B. (as opposed to a tourist, or newb).

I used to complain about getting lost.  UNTIL I FIXED MY Options!  Address this or I will give up on trying to help anyone who is still complaining about this (except for the tourists ingame, of course, I have hope for them still.)

 

[Parallo]

Point by point here.

Seriously, there is an urgent need to make a low level spell of Crystal Way that briefly shows you the direction of the Crystal.

Wouldn't that just be up?

Realism?
- Player made maps, fine. But they are not character skill based, are they?

Not yet but that is a possibility when the feature is expanded.

- RL maps cost a fortune when they were handmade. A new character couldn't afford one, if he could find one.

Yes, in rl. In PS someone was selling greeting cards for 2000 tria. It's about supply and demand and they're different in PS from in the real world.

- Ask for help? Sure. With 30 persons connected, that's 20 in towns, 4 in the DR and 5 mining. How often do you think you meet someone in the wilds?

Normally if I was planning a trip to somewhere I haven't been before I would find out how to get there before I left rather than wandering in it's general direction and hoping to bump into someone on the way.

- If their are PC made maps, why isn't there any NPC made map?

There is but it's useless. Just like Harnquist's weapons are useless compared to ones PCs can craft. This is needed if we want people to bother with crafting at all.

- What use is a map without a compass, in the wilds?

Landmarks.

- With the level of magic that exists in Yliakum, the absence of stars and sky or other direction clues, the little number of roads, the common use of caravans and the importance of travel, someone must have invented a pointing system. Even if only based on the observation of nature.

They just haven't found the pointing glyph yet

I can give you several reasons why I barely play these days, all technical and temporary. I can also give you several reasons why all of the friends I introduced to PS didn't get into it, and all are seasoned RPers (talking 30+ years experience here). So when you hear new players trying to stay despite the frustrations, and asking for something very simple, this should be taken as a serious, and more importantly urgent matter. I cannot imagine how many gave up already because running in the wild was just the opposite of fun.

Having recently moved to a new city and had to learn my around the hard way, yeah, it isn't fun. But there is a pride in learning how to get around. It doesn't take long and it's not like I was going to move back just because I didn't have the patience to learn.

If this comes across as asshole-ish, it isn't intended.

[khoridor]

eh eh