Author Topic: general game play // money  (Read 6642 times)

Lyrah

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 119
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2005, 01:37:39 am »
I would LOVE to see the sewers spawn in a more natural way. Rats wondering around looking for food would be INCREDIBLY immersive, and through a quest that rewards for a certain number of dead rats, maybe with a quest ONLY item that does NOT drop but goes to the quest givers \"quest journal\" to keep from having group conflicts (who gets the ONE quest item that dropped...this would discourage grouping if it was ONLY one item, but if five people grouped killed the rat and FIVE people ALL got the item...grouping would be HIGHLY encouraged), would also add ALOT to immersiveness.

I personally think that if quests are done well, they will HIGHLY ease the LOW monster spawn issue. Think about it, if a quest gave cash, maybe a Newbie (read as LOW quality, but it is better than punching the mob...a little better) weapon, some XP and maybe fame (the city you are in would be GLAD you are lowering the number of disease causing VERMIN, and would appreciate this, possibly eventually lowering you buy prices and SLIGHTLY...eventually raising your sell prices...a tiny bit.
And maybe if another NPC gave a quest to do something else...they could reward with some xp, a little bit of cash and maybe a lowest end healing potion (less than lowest store sold, but ok for a newbie).

I think the KEY is fixing quests and ballancing rewards to encourage players to focus on THEM and not mobs. Heck if quests were good enough, ALL of the rat farmers could group, get their training, some xp, a few eyes or pelts AND finish a few quests(which would reward with MORE xp, MORE cash and possible potions)...ALL in a FULL group (which would mean THREE spawns and 15 people would NOT be a tragedy, but would actually WORK).

I would say IF extinction starts to set in, even on vermin, the devs should have another mob with similar stats, difficulty, rewards etc to step in. Think about ecosystems for a second. Take for instance the Black Death and how it started, and eventually ended.

First off, fear of cats since they were RUMORED to be demonic familiars of DARK and EVIL witches *rolls eyes* the cats were rounded up in HUGE numbers in parts of Europe. The areas were more cats were killed were hardest hit by the Black death due to MUCH higer rat populations (rat fleas were the carries of the disease). Let\'s think about WHY this happened. Cats kill rats, rats carry fleas, fleas carry the plague. Kill fewer cats, cats kill more rats, fewer rats, fewer fleas, the outbreak dwindles.

Same thought can be carried to snakes, mice, and owls. If you kill off MOST of one, the population of one of the others spikes. For instance, kill all of the snakes, the Mice population spikes, and then...due to more food, so does the Owl population.

SO...I would say the Immersive thing to do on extinctions is have the mob that is related to that mob (is the food of that mob) increase in population. For instance, LARGE rats eat insects, SO...when there are fewer rats, the insects could mutate and grow, leaving a LARGE mutant bug to kill. Kill off TOO many of those, then the rats start having trouble getting enough food, and maybe even leave the sewers.

I think if the spawns are done logically instead of staticly that immersion factor would go THROUGH THE ROOF! As it stands, same mob, EXACT same spot, once every 15 to 20 seconds...that is NOT immersive in the least. Hard to role play that one, except MAYBE that there is a hole in the ground and the other rat can get through it until you kill the first one and strip the body (loot it).

I agree, if the extinction thing is NOT thought out and CAREFULLY planned/coded, then the economy can and WILL tank, which needless to say WILL hurt the game.



Quote
Originally posted by Nikodemus
Quote
Originally posted by Crunk

Nikodemus: your response is somewhat hard to follow. Alot of the points you raised dont seem consistent with RPG play. Extinction of monsters? WTF  - I can see that having some run away or not always spawn in the same place would be a good feature though.



Might be, because when i think about playing roleplaying game, I base things on real life where these are put in logical order. When roleplaying, we shouldn\'t think about how things are programmed and done, but how truly they look like. If monsters would appear without a reason from thin air, (how it was programmed) then there is no way they will extinct. But if we think about this as we should, it is imagine all the process the animals born, grow, feed, then we will see that if will be hunted in to big number, they will extinct.

Of course nobody is thinking about this, because the game economy would crash instantly....
maybe we should?
« Last Edit: April 06, 2005, 01:44:16 am by Lyrah »

Kiva

  • Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 1366
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2005, 06:37:56 am »
Quote
Originally posted by Crunk
Quote
Originally posted by Moogie
Quote
Originally posted by Crunk
Quote
Originally posted by Demarthl
or.
quit whining and be grateful you get to be part of this pre beta :| your power levelling is undergoing for nothing as there is a wipe due, it also says that in the server MOTD

Dev\'s are working on balancing issues and things will change, your constant whining about it does NOT speed this process, NOR does making yet another useless thread. good day to you



Way to completely blow off a legitimate question. Is this the attitude of all the devs or do some people actually want people to play their game?

The first few responses addressed my question quite nicely. To hear from you in this way is a big turnoff for me personaly.



Demarthl isn\'t a dev, so don\'t take his harsh attitude as that of the development team. :)


Oh... i saw Game Master and assumed he had something to do with dev. My bad.


Anyone with the rank \"Game Master\" on these forums has no influence with the dev team whatsoever, so no need to start thinking such things. :)
\"Somewhere over the rainbow...\"

Cyrus Arckum

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 76
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2005, 08:59:44 am »
Okay, I\'m really sick of these oldbies telling people how they should be playing PlaneShift. It\'s none of your buisness whether people are pwoer-levelers or not! Stoping telling people how to think. Anyway, haven\'t the devs said they will add more loot items? I pretty sure they did.

Lyrah

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 119
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2005, 09:31:10 am »
There are a few old schoolers that are determined to push role play. Those of us that are new can either bang our head against a brick wall and scream in forums or just go ahead and play our style.

I would like to see the older school posters/testers/whatever the heck be a tad more understanding and less harsh to newer posters. It is a tad tough to read the forums knowing that older schoolers have very likely taken your well thought out and phrased posts and ripped you a new one OR just closed the thread and screamed \"use search\" or something of the sort...when the thread that I replied to was in a sticky *groans*

Nikech

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 122
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2005, 10:30:57 am »
Quote
Originally posted by Cyrus Arckum
Okay, I\'m really sick of these oldbies telling people how they should be playing PlaneShift. It\'s none of your buisness whether people are pwoer-levelers or not! Stoping telling people how to think. Anyway, haven\'t the devs said they will add more loot items? I pretty sure they did.


Actually it is \"our\" business. PlaneShift is a Role Playing Game, meaning that you should play a role. I guess power-leveling is understandable as long as it fits your char\'s RP background, but if you\'re an extreme power-leveler that camps the same rat spawn for hours, you might ruin the RP athmosphere for the other players too.

Loremaster in the Arcane Order

\"That was when I realized that the light I\'d seen at the end of the tunnel was actually the headlight of an onrushing locomotive. \" -George R. R. Martin

Kaseijin

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 190
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2005, 12:13:54 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Cyrus Arckum
Okay, I\'m really sick of these oldbies telling people how they should be playing PlaneShift. It\'s none of your buisness whether people are pwoer-levelers or not! Stoping telling people how to think. Anyway, haven\'t the devs said they will add more loot items? I pretty sure they did.


have you considered the possibility that some oldbies and devs are sick of hearing  complaints about not having tougher monsters and more spawn points.
And you are not told how to think, but you are advised(i admit sometimes quite harshly) on how to look at this game. You can play it as action oriented game but you won\'t have fun, cause it considered and designed to be a Role Playing Game.
I always thought that the main advantage of MMORPG over a Pen and Paper adventure is that when playing MMORPG you don\'t have to play a hero. I have never seen a PnP game where player charcters play blacksmiths and bartenders. That\'s why I am so excited about MMORPG i can play rpg without the need to save the world without the need to be a hero.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2005, 12:14:22 pm by Kaseijin »
i actually play planeshift

Lyrah

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 119
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #21 on: April 06, 2005, 03:45:57 pm »
In my AD&D days, I played...a brothel owner (well what else would a half elf, half siren play? Don\'t ask, the bouncer was half ogre half owlbear! The stage act was half bird, half something else. you could have called us a motley bunch).

I also played a ten year old halfing thief, a farmer npc (now THAT was fun, how to get them going in the right direction without giving away too much), a horse, a familar \"ice tiger\", an owl and a half dark elf half human.  Most of my characters spent as much time in town as out. See the STORY is in town...can\'t find it in the woods, nope...you find it in town, over ale...ya sometimes. But I found as much over turnips and carrots as ale and mead. And the Juicy stuff, that was over hair cuts, or washing laundry. You want to know what the KING is doing...ask his maid...he doesn\'t even see her.

My Halfling thief grew up, found a halfing wife, found a Nice house in a calm settlement and opened up \"Ole Bill\'s sundries-everything the traveler needs for adventuring\" and turned into the DM\'s npc that opened up adventures...he let me play him.

Actually I found if you adjusted the math of PnP...then you didn\'t have to WORK so hard. Plus I tended to fudge and work with Dm\'s that did, we worked with a mana system NOT Gygax\'s magic (too weak). And yes, Sirens and owlbears were not in the player races, but sure was FUN.

OH and the Ogreowlbear...he was a mage. Knock and fly, you figure it out. (dm allowed it on strength, and yes, with fly...you took falling damage). He tried invizability(*Juhm places feathered hands over his eyes and mutters* you no see Juhm), but ended up going for sleep (*Juhm konks you on the head for five points blunt damage* Roll d4 *dm does not even look at rolled dice* you fail, you are asleep).

We also had a halfling thief with a tendancy to give back everything he took. LOL. \"Is this your dagger...you dropped it...thought you would want it back.\"
And we had a WELL played (very beat up) cavalier.
His catch phrase \"Ah HA...now I got you\" *painful sounding fight* \"Medic\" *cavlier falls unconcious* *Cleric runs forward*\"that\'s my cue\" *Mage casts a few spells as the druid, bard and theif distract the attacker. Attacker eventually dies, a few others in group are seriously injured...near death. Mage binds wounds, cleric and druid heals while the bard and thief make camp. Warrior being fast behind the cavalier lays unconcious as well while the thief browses his gear*.

The thing about PnP that many that didn\'t play it don\'t know is you got to know the PLAYER and the Character, and could love one and hate the other. Like the Cleric, sad little fella as a player, but MAN he shown in character. And the Warrior...well his character was important to the campaign, but the player was hateful and angry. He tended to sit in the room during game times, and run out and smoke during bathroom breaks, which ended up social times. I enjoyed the soda, pizza and bathroom breaks as much as the singing swords...vorpal bunnies (yes...the DM brought those in *rolls eyes* you killed it with a primative home made bomb the cleric found *groans*)

But admittedly this group was a \"Monty Hall\" group, all nearly gods, got their way alot, but DM was hard as nails, nearly killing us each battle. And we had as many puzzles as monsters. \"Ok, the hall LOOKS nice and clear,\" says the Mage. \"Let\'s send the Warrior in,\" says the thief. *mixed laughter and warrior grumbles* \"Ok ok, I know, figure it out fur foot.\" says the thief. That hall took longer than getting to the dungeon did, and thief tripped all of the magic traps, nearly died four times.

The difference between computer online and face to face is day and night. The familiarity, the warmth and true friendship is not online, sadly, as warm as it gets...it is over as soon as \"real life\" steps in...as it should be with any inanimate object (the computer). But with PnP, real life needs often were met by the play group as much as in game. I remember the thief got assigned to a ship in mid campaign (what a SAD day that was, well sad and HAPPY...he wanted that assignment, but how often do you get a thief that could almost pick pockets or locks in his sleep with cute furry feet and could COOK in real life and game, plus he was the bouncer in our afternoon game, I lost my Owlbear friend *cries*), the group helped him pack up and move to the ship. Well I cheered them on from the parking lot, NO girls in the rooms. (the group was in the Navy, except me, I am the bard\'s wife, and the Mage in the game. I learned two VERY important lessons. If it looks like a dragon and man mated...do NOT kill it, push it off the spelljammer. And a fireball on a wooden vessel is NOT a good idea. Thank goodness for call rain...and the druid), but I helped carry boxed from the door to the truck.

The PnP was CHEEP, and rather continual entertainment. Once you bought the books, the dice and a few reams of paper (ream is I think 500 sheets...maybe, I forget) and a large sheet of octagangal grid plastic and a dry erase marker and a few figures (not all the lead minis, best purple worm we EVER killed was a green ceramic worm from a gift box I got in high school and kept around, my ice tiger familar was a plastic cat I found in a gum ball machine), you were good to go. For around 200 bucks (spread over a group of six to ten, so NOT much each), you could have fun for years...literally.

Only thing I regret from those days was getting rid of all of it, if I only had my first edition monster manual and players manual *cries*.

Xordan

  • Crystal Space Developer
  • Forum Addict
  • *
  • Posts: 3845
  • For God and the Empire
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2005, 10:23:22 pm »
Meh, as i\'ve said in other posts I\'m working on it. If any of you would like to pay me ?50,000 a year to work on PS I\'ll drop out of school and you\'ll get your wishes granted quicker :P

Dregan Tepis

  • Traveller
  • *
  • Posts: 37
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2005, 04:41:36 am »
I\'ll say it again... There\'s no reason for rain in planeshift, the crying does well enough to keep the crops growing!

Look, a big problem is the newbies begging. Had one come up to me the other night. I told him to meet me in the tavren in a 30 min. I announced a concert, and a two nice people showed up to watch. I made the newbie \"sing for his supper\", feeding him lines to a drinking song, and he repeating it as if he was singing. I paid him 500 tria for his performance! Why do I bring this up? Look at what happened...

What was I doing for that 30 min I asked him to wait? Why, spawn killing tefs for money so I could help him! How did I get so strong to kill for money that fast? Powerleveling! And how did I give a newbie a welcome start to our world? Roleplaying!

Now, I\'m not tooting my own horn... but if I can make money, powerlevel, and roleplay all at the same time, then the only reason anyone else can\'t do it is becouse of choice! That means powerlevelers, stop and have a conversation! And roleplayers, go have an adventure, even if for only telling your friends at the tavren of a stupid move that got you bit by a rat and almost ended you up in the deathrealm!

Powerlevelers and roleplayers need to take a cue from each other. In the imortal words of Rodney King, can\'t we all just get along =).
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons... for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup!

Xordan

  • Crystal Space Developer
  • Forum Addict
  • *
  • Posts: 3845
  • For God and the Empire
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #24 on: April 07, 2005, 05:54:11 am »
I don\'t have a problem with people powerleveling as long as they aren\'t spoiling the rp atmosphere in the process. You can powerlevel and roleplay at the same time with little effort. If people can powerlevel and only /say or /shout things which are in a rp context then great.

waa

  • Traveller
  • *
  • Posts: 22
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #25 on: April 07, 2005, 08:55:37 pm »
Quote


Actually it is \"our\" business. PlaneShift is a Role Playing Game, meaning that you should play a role. I guess power-leveling is understandable as long as it fits your char\'s RP background, but if you\'re an extreme power-leveler that camps the same rat spawn for hours, you might ruin the RP athmosphere for the other players too.


As much as I understand where your coming from, please understand a few things.........You might have a strong point if the game was finished and didnt push players into things they might not otherwise do.....



Power leveling rats does not hurt rpg\'ers


One must obtain levels and items, by any means, in this case the ONLY means.



If anything the lack of depth in the game forcing players to camp certain spots ruins the gaming experience for some,


players are only playing with what they are presented, if that causes problems, then add more content,


Im almost 100% sure that once more things are added,  power levelers wont be camping \"rats\" and causing problems for others to do the same type of leveling.



Its the lack of things to do causing the problems, not the players
unstable client? piss poor gameplay?

a weak staff?


planeshift has it all

Lyrah

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 119
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2005, 08:16:02 am »
*hugs Dregan*

Yes, there has to be a way to get money into the game and encourage the young and way ward youth into a life of nights in the pub, and the joys of a nice bar wench.

But how can people reward role play...if they don\'t go out and *gasp* earn the money somehow.

*wonders if asking the devs for tria trees would even be entertained* Nah, I don\'t think they would buy into that.

Quote
Originally posted by Dregan Tepis
I\'ll say it again... There\'s no reason for rain in planeshift, the crying does well enough to keep the crops growing!

Look, a big problem is the newbies begging. Had one come up to me the other night. I told him to meet me in the tavren in a 30 min. I announced a concert, and a two nice people showed up to watch. I made the newbie \"sing for his supper\", feeding him lines to a drinking song, and he repeating it as if he was singing. I paid him 500 tria for his performance! Why do I bring this up? Look at what happened...

What was I doing for that 30 min I asked him to wait? Why, spawn killing tefs for money so I could help him! How did I get so strong to kill for money that fast? Powerleveling! And how did I give a newbie a welcome start to our world? Roleplaying!

Now, I\'m not tooting my own horn... but if I can make money, powerlevel, and roleplay all at the same time, then the only reason anyone else can\'t do it is becouse of choice! That means powerlevelers, stop and have a conversation! And roleplayers, go have an adventure, even if for only telling your friends at the tavren of a stupid move that got you bit by a rat and almost ended you up in the deathrealm!

Powerlevelers and roleplayers need to take a cue from each other. In the imortal words of Rodney King, can\'t we all just get along =).

Lyrah

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 119
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2005, 08:23:04 am »
If there was some way of earning skills and cash for instance a mob a bit harder than a rat, with a little bit better xp/pp and loot. I am sure the rats would be last years news...LONG forgotten.

And the true role players, once they had a nice padded coin purse, would head to the plaza to tell their tales of a rat ten...no 20 meters tall ifin it was an inch. Or in the pub bounching a bar main on his knee (once the Sit function or bounce function gets in game), or watching the lady on the stage dance (again...another animation that wouldn\'t hurt the RPers). Or maybe he/she has a religous bend to them, they could preach in the square and try to \"convert\" the lost souls of *insert either atheist OR opposite faith here*. If they were convincing enough...they might earn a few trias \"for the cause\".

OR maybe a good game of tag could insue, you run around and call out \"your it\" then run away from your friend, when they catch you it is your turn to case them.


Quote
Originally posted by waa
Quote


Actually it is \"our\" business. PlaneShift is a Role Playing Game, meaning that you should play a role. I guess power-leveling is understandable as long as it fits your char\'s RP background, but if you\'re an extreme power-leveler that camps the same rat spawn for hours, you might ruin the RP athmosphere for the other players too.


As much as I understand where your coming from, please understand a few things.........You might have a strong point if the game was finished and didnt push players into things they might not otherwise do.....



Power leveling rats does not hurt rpg\'ers


One must obtain levels and items, by any means, in this case the ONLY means.



If anything the lack of depth in the game forcing players to camp certain spots ruins the gaming experience for some,


players are only playing with what they are presented, if that causes problems, then add more content,


Im almost 100% sure that once more things are added,  power levelers wont be camping \"rats\" and causing problems for others to do the same type of leveling.



Its the lack of things to do causing the problems, not the players

Dregan Tepis

  • Traveller
  • *
  • Posts: 37
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2005, 11:55:20 am »
*blushes* Awe, shucks, Lyrah!

Well, in leu of the devs hard work on everything already, mabey the thing to do is to start playing our own financial system, and base the newbies in it. Mabey we could start making quests of our own. granted they wouldn\'t go in the quest log, but there are things like, oh, say imagination that don\'t require programing.

Try this. how about a scavenger hunt in words. Several people from a guild hide around the world, each having part of a message that someone in the plaza needs. Mabey like information for a guild war, so the powerlevelers are intrested too. First one back with the whole message wins!

This is just one idea, what we realy need is the old time roleplayers back. You know, the ones who say they have left because of the powerlevelers. If they are as good at roleplaying as they say they are, then there should be a ton of creative ideas on how to fix this. It should be easy for them to turn some of the new people into RP\'ers, just from thier enthusiam alone! Now if only someone could say something in the forums to goat them into coming back and trying again....

Hmmm, my work is done.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2005, 11:56:10 am by Dregan Tepis »
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons... for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup!

Keyaz

  • Guest
(No subject)
« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2005, 01:47:02 pm »
some people aren\'t ready to come back yet, some are unwilling to ever come back and some refuse to until this wipe is past, they all have their reasons but don\'t judge them because they\'re not here to change things, whining on the forums isnt so goo d either im afraid, you want the community again? come on in the game and be part of it :D