the Exorcist and the Afterlife?

[verideon]

I\'m curious about the Exorcist and the Afterife. for those of you who have no clue what i\'m talking about well the exocist is with Jesus and god and the devil and stuff and the afterlife is with you dying and coming back alive in another life and stuff. But what is the differance when you practically have an afterlife in heaven or hell so why worry with the afterlife thingy. Most asian cultures (I\'m not sure how many) believe in the afterlife and not the exorcist. But how can we prove that either exists. Now i\'m a religeous person and to tell the truth i\'m christian so I follow the exorcist rule. But what is the differance, and how do you go to heaven and how do you go to hell. Also another thing I have heard from other people is that if you kill an animal (eg. snail, fly, rabbit) your next life will be of that you killed. I\'m confused, please help me. What inspired this thread was the movie \'Constantine\' which I saw in the movies the other day. Also where in the exorcist and the bible is the spear head that killed Jesus? If I just confused you then please accept my apologese.

[Under the moon]

Simple, you can\'t prove it, you don\'t go to heaven and hell doesn\'t exist. There is no afterlife. You\'re not coming back as a bug or a bunny. If you go by what the bible says (not the catholic bible, that thing\'s been rewritten so damn many times you have to wonder if there\'s a single thing it hasn\'t warped) most people will be brought back to life on earth after a \'long sleep\'. Don\'t give me that ghost crap, if you believe in that. And psychics. :rolleyes: Don\'t get me started on them. Not that I don\'t believe they hear voices or see ghosts, but they\'re not coming from beyond the grave. The truth is much more frightening. (Not sure that I really believe that either)

I\'m sure I\'ll get a flame or seven for this. Bring it.

[Phinehas]

I am a Christian. A real Christian, not one of those who kinda-sorda believe in God, maybe. My faith is the center of my life.

I do believe that there is an afterlife. In fact, our current lives are insignificant in comparison with it.

Under, I\'m not sure where you got that \"long sleep\" idea, but it\'s the first I\'ve heard of it, unless you mean purgatory or something.

[Under the moon]

No, not purgatory. I really don\'t believe in that. Perhaps I\'ll dig out the old bible sometime and find what I mean. I don\'t believe in an afterlife for the simple fact that the \'greater flock\' (meaning most people) will be returned to Earth. Don\'t you think it would be kind of a kick in the face to go this heaven paradise only to be tossed back to good old Earth? Not the best laid plan.

[Phinehas]

I honestly have no idea what you\'re talking about.

[verideon]

My religeon makes up almost half of my life too Phinehas and like you i\'m a real christian. But your look at all the versions of the bibles these days and half of them have the exorcist with heaven and hell and stuff but then you look at about another quarter and you\'ll see your afterlife things and another quarter and they have your other theorys but you really need to look at the true book of the bible and you\'ll see the exorcist parts. I\'m still confused and it doesn\'t help if your tired like me.

[Phinehas]

Ok, the \"Exorcist\" (never heard that term used with this meaning, but \"oh well\") is the correct one, according to the Bible.

[davo]

hmmmm heaven and hell and the afterlife ?

that must be one hell of a machine to do that.  and one magic book.  for to me i really dont care or believe.  ive never gone to church and probably never will. and the only time i think of god is when i curse.

mmm i have killed many animals, mainly cane toads and mosquitoes so i think im gonna be a toad/mosquito creature lol, but i think its a money scam.

but think of it like this....say you where born into a different religeon like....some weird place, would fate change just cause you where born into a different religeon and your parents raised you on the bible.

[Phinehas]

I\'m not quite sure I get what you\'re asking... Are you asking if I would still believe what I believe if I was raised in... say... a Buddhist culture? Or what?

[Draklar]

Originally posted by verideon
But how can we prove that either exists.

I believe you can\'t... that\'s the whole beauty of religion... Dedicating your life to rules that might turn out to be just a stupid joke after you die.

Either way, I don\'t believe there is such thing as heaven or hell. Why? Because for that God would have to exist...
And as for a guy that is supposed to be not changing (being outside of time and stuff), he sure had lots of faces (different in Old Testament, New Testament, middle ages and today).
Funny how he keeps changing together with changes in human culture...

I guess after death you could join some kind of essence, reincarnate or... well... cease to exist.

[elscouta]

Maybe time doesn\'t even exist, and you\'ll be in that instant forever (well, forever means nothing, as there is no time - so what should i say?) So why caring about afterlife?

[RussianVodka]

My opinion on religion is very very long, so I\'m not gona bother posting it... But this is what I have noticed during the times of transition from Soviet Russia, to Russian Federation:

There were alot more Orthodox Christian brainwashing propoganda being shown on TV. And what I noticed, was that the bible (or other holy books for that matter) are just sets of rules that you should obide by to be a good person. Remove god, and you get the same educational stories that you were tought in good ol\' athiest USSR.

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Thus religions are just ways of scaring people into being good citizens.

[Moogie]

*Nod* Indeed, if you were the ruler of a large country, how would you get your people to listen to you?

\"Do what we say or... we\'ll... say bad things about you!\"

You can\'t think that\'ll ever work, right?

But... if you tell people there\'s some great omnipotent being watching over everyone, and that they\'ll suffer eternal punishment when they die if they\'ve been bad, of course people are going to start obeying you. Using religion to control the masses is the most effective means of total power over them.

Even savage cavemen at the dawn of human history had religion- it enforces social structure and gives people a means to pull together collectively in their \'belief\'. Of course, this means many tribes had their own gods, and as usual, they would fight eachother over it. Thus it has been like that ever since- there\'s nothing that incites more bloodshed and war than religion.


...Except maybe football matches in England.

[Phinehas]

Originally posted by Draklar
Either way, I don\'t believe there is such thing as heaven or hell. Why? Because for that God would have to exist...
And as for a guy that is supposed to be not changing (being outside of time and stuff), he sure had lots of faces (different in Old Testament, New Testament, middle ages and today).
Funny how he keeps changing together with changes in human culture...

That\'s interesting. I wonder what you mean. God hasn\'t changed. Ever.

Originally posted by RussianVodka
There were alot more Orthodox Christian brainwashing propoganda being shown on TV. And what I noticed, was that the bible (or other holy books for that matter) are just sets of rules that you should obide by to be a good person. Remove god, and you get the same educational stories that you were tought in good ol\' athiest USSR.

That\'s very observant of you. The fact is that you have actually described the Russian Orthodox church very well, and perhaps in a truer way than you know. All I can say is that that is not realy Christianity.

Anyway, I have no desire to have a \"religious\" discussion on these forums. I\'ve tried that, it doesn\'t work. However, if any of you are interested in discussing it further, feel free to PM me, or find me on MSN, Yahoo, or any of a number of IRC rooms.

[Draklar]

Getting into religion discussion with a christian isn\'t exactly what I dream about. I only stated my opinion and would rather stay away from futile discussions.
Just to answer this:

Originally posted by Phinehas
That\'s interesting. I wonder what you mean. God hasn\'t changed. Ever.

Well in the 18 years of being a christian I didn\'t really believe in a God showed in Old Testament:

Everyone who is found will be thrust through. Everyone who is captured will fall by the sword. Their infants also will be dashed in pieces before their eyes. Their houses will be ransacked, and their wives raped. Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, who will not value silver, and as for gold, they will not delight in it. Their bows will dash the young men in pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb. Their eyes will not spare children. Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldeans; pride, will be like when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.

Might be just me, but that doesn\'t sound like will of a God that church teaches about nowadays...
But like I said, it\'s just my opinion. It could be the same concept of God as we have today... I might interpret something wrong... Just ignore me.