Author Topic: Challenging Etiquette  (Read 2876 times)

zanzibar

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Challenging Etiquette
« on: May 08, 2005, 10:00:41 am »
I will often challenge random people and kill or be killed in the proceding combat.  There have been times though when after I kill someone, I get a complaint.  One word that was used was \"murder\", however no one can force anyone else to accept a challenge, and at any time you can leave by pressing the combat button.

What gives?  Is the attitude of the people that complain in any way justified?
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Zan

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« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2005, 10:40:47 am »
I believe it is but of course you have to look at things on a case to case scenario.

I just know there are quite a few people getting tired of all the random players running around the plaza picking fights everywhere. I admit I am one of them. I find that there should be some sort of etiquette towards challenging others to a duel.

Right now dying doesn\'t harm a person much. You get sent to the Death Realm and a few minutes later you \'re back. But in reality people usually think twice before they pick a deadly fight with others. So since that natural inhibition isn\'t there and the game also doesn\'t decourage fighting in any way it is up to the players to do something.

I personally try to remain honorable most of the time and will never challenge a person or even fight back unless that person manages to insult my honor .. or they catch me in a bad mood :P

I personally think that random duels to measure ones power should have a place in the Arena though, take it away from the plaza. Imagine you going outside today in the real world and you see random people flying at eachother\'s throats in the streets. Just doesn\'t bring much of a community spirit in my eyes.

I \'m glad to see you actually ask this question though instead of just going on.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2005, 10:41:28 am by Zan »
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zinder

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« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2005, 03:30:51 pm »
There are also people roleplaying, you know. They try to stay in character. For some this means they will not run when they are attacked by what appears to be a robber or murder. (Someone who goes around challenging random people without any talk) So you need to differentiate between complaints. Was it in character or really from the player? One problem being that AFAIK there is no consensus on the effect of the death realm on the memory of the char.

IMHO a little talk which hints at the motivation of the char should be reqiured. If its a psychotic or for another reason talking is ooc, a little /me-ing would help.

EDIT: With talk i dont mean a speech. A robber for example could say \"give all your money\". Or with /me-ing: \"/me jumps out a small backstreet and strikes at X back\" or jump out of bush, fall from a tree/roof.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2005, 03:38:14 pm by zinder »

Xordan

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« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2005, 04:04:53 pm »
Remember that people can /yield if they don\'t wish to die :)

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« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2005, 04:27:21 pm »
Xordan there is no yielding to a warrior that does 60+ damage with each weapon .. two weapons means I \'d be dead after the first hit and the strongest warriors after the 3rd.

I know there is a yield button but it is so uneffective because most fights don\'t last long enough to use it.
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Xordan

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« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2005, 04:54:05 pm »
Then that\'s your fault for accepting a dual with a big guy with a big sword?

Monketh

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« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2005, 05:07:35 pm »
Come now, how many times have you had that little damn annoying pop-up window \"X has challenged you to a duel\" right in the middle of something?
I have clicked on it before when I intended to click on something else because it just comes up so randomly.
Xordan, it ain\'t that simlpe and certainly is not always consenual.

I\'d also like to second zinder here that roleplayers will sometimes accept a duel even though they don\'t actually want to fight.  How can one have asassins, robbers, and likewise in-game with this system any other way?
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Nilrem

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« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2005, 05:22:59 pm »
Imo players should be able to begin a fight without asking, but only to one person at a time.
But then the defeated ones could report to some \"police\" (let\'s say the GM) the names of those that are challenging everytime the players; after a number of denounces is reached that one will have gained his \"assasssin\" reputation; this way those ones could have a lavel of \"wanted\" ottorgued by GM (like in western movies) that would allow to be attacked by groups or be known as thiefs/assassins and become a \"non grata\" person, so the cityzens of Yliakum know it\'s better to stay away from them.
This way assassins could have fun assassinating but they also have to be ready for the consequences.
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Seytra

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« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2005, 05:49:55 pm »
Let me get this out first: no open PvP, please. Regardless of how it is done, it will lead to griefers and lots of abuse.
Heck, even our PvP confirmation system is being abused already!

Let\'s face it, thieving / asassinating are for good RPers only, because they can handle both sides. Everyone else would not be likely to take it nonpersonal, and that\'s the majority.

As for the etiquette: I am very very tired of people challenging everyone everywhere, especially because more often than not, it is either newbies who challenge or who are challenged.

The latter is the worst problem, because
1) The newbie doesn\'t know what a duel is about, he most likely doesn\'t know that it ends with death. If someone asks for a duel without any dispute, I would expect it to be sparring, not a fight to death. Therefore, they are quite right in accusing you as murderer.

2) Yes, they could (and should) decline, but you\'d think that paople only pick opponents that they think are worthy (i.e., not much more inexperienced than oneself).

3) Furthermore, they cannot know if it is expected that one accepts a challenge!


The first still is a major annoyance. The presence of the quickbutton \"challenge\" makes it look like this is encouraged and a normal thing to do, like the \"greet\" quickbutton. While the latter is, the first is not, and thus newbies get the wrong impression and expectation.

The first thing I did when entering was to turn on auto-decline, but that was possible only because I had read about the duelling problems before, which is something newbies cannot be expected to have.

As for the IC duelling: yes, this is another problem. RPers get challenged for non-RP purposes and accept for IC purposes. Hence, RPers are at a disadvantage which takes away from RP, and thus this is a bad thing. Hence, I specifically turn on \"ask every time\" after I have agreed to an IC duel, and turn it back to auto decline afterwards.
A good RPer will be able to play along after getting a /tell like this \"OOC: I\'m an asassin and you look like prey, would you agree to a duel?\"

The ones who will then accetp are the only ones who may be able to handle it, anyway.

@ Xordan: The problem is that I have seen people challenge without holding any weapon, only to click a quickbutton (equip swords, attack) after the duel has been accepted. Even if not, the skill level makes the difference, not the weapon, and since weapons seem to be given out in great quantities to newbies, it isn\'t a real way to judge actual strength by. :)

That and the problems that have been pointed out already.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2005, 06:03:03 pm by Seytra »

Moogie

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« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2005, 02:05:17 am »
There is an auto-decline option in your Options page which declines duels without allowing them to disturb your actions.

Madcrimson

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« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2005, 03:52:40 pm »
Seytra said most of the things I intended to say so thanks for sparing me the hassle :)
But...

Quote
Originally posted by Seytra
@ Xordan: The problem is that I have seen people challenge without holding any weapon, only to click a quickbutton (equip swords, attack) after the duel has been accepted. Even if not, the skill level makes the difference, not the weapon, and since weapons seem to be given out in great quantities to newbies, it isn\'t a real way to judge actual strength by. :)


I read with surprise that weapons are being given out. I had to kill quadrillion fantazillion rats to buy my equipment. Did this change during the last week?

But to stick to the topic: The random challenges are really anoying and I, too, turned auto-decline on. But I didn\'t have to read the forums first... because browsing the options is one of the first things I do when starting a new game. And once you saw that there is a built-in popup blocker in the game, one uses it naturally ;)

BTW, how can I assign buttons to things like equiping items or using skills?

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Aiselyn

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« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2005, 08:56:59 pm »
There are some people like me who just don\'t like to duel. I\'m not into PvP. I\'ve dueled twice ever since I joined mid-March and I didn\'t find anything ecstatic about it lol.

Overall, I agree with Seytra. Having a free-for-all in roleplaying would just be too much. There would be more chaos overall. More complaints than now I\'m sure. It\'s just doesn\'t make sense. The idea of having an open PvP is based on the assumption that everyone wants to duel...and that\'s just not the case.

This game is not Diablo. It\'s nothing like it. That\'s what I like about this game so much: The overall community is based more on my ideals on what a game should be, on what \'fun\' should be. I don\'t want that taken away. :)

BTW, I didn\'t know abot the auto-decline until now. I guess I need to adjust my eyesight a bit. ;) Thanks for bringing it up though. I know what I\'m doing when I enter the game next :D.

Seytra

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« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2005, 09:46:44 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Madcrimson
I read with surprise that weapons are being given out. I had to kill quadrillion fantazillion rats to buy my equipment. Did this change during the last week?

It seems to be that guilds that have accumulated some wealth are giving weapons to new members, which tend to be newbies. This isn\'t a bad thing, though, as long as it\'s RP; it just removes the way to assess the power of a fighter by looking at him.
Quote
Originally posted by Madcrimson
But to stick to the topic: The random challenges are really anoying and I, too, turned auto-decline on. But I didn\'t have to read the forums first... because browsing the options is one of the first things I do when starting a new game. And once you saw that there is a built-in popup blocker in the game, one uses it naturally ;)

Aye, option-browsing is one of the first things I do, too. However, since I prefer to be notified by the system about everything, I would\'ve left it at \"ask each time\" hadn\'t I read about duelling SPAM before. The little system message scrolls past very quickly in many cases, but since the challengers run off even quicker (too quick to even ask why they wish to kill me) it doesn\'t really matter.
Quote
Originally posted by Madcrimson
BTW, how can I assign buttons to things like equiping items or using skills?

Rightclick on the desired quickbutton and enter the commands to execute in the window that appears. The equipping commands don\'t work 100% yet, but that can be worked around by using > 1 quickbutton.

@ Aiselyn: it\'s in options->PvP->Confirmation->never accept
« Last Edit: May 09, 2005, 09:50:14 pm by Seytra »

Lyrah

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« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2005, 11:29:11 pm »
I have had auto decline not work for me. And the main reason that I had gotten challenged was to keep me from attacking a rat. Two people challenge spammed me, that way ONE of them could grab the rat spawn.

This infantile behavior went down a little bit once the rat spawns were fixed, but would drop conciderably more if the number of mobs that drop loot, give xp and give skill ups for using skills were upped, tripling the type and number might do.

But...I have given up, the RPers do not want the game improved and any new tester is immediately tarred feathered and then hanged drawn and quartered.

Yes I keep coming back to see if the game is any better, but...I expect that this game will improve at only SLIGHTLY faster than the speed of evolution in nature.

Fear of allowing anyone BUT a pure role player in and making any other type of player comfortable is going to be the demise of this game. But the future is not set in stone.

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« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2005, 01:12:25 am »
Roleplayers do not oppose the testing of the game, ask yourself first, Is Bothering The Roleplayers Testing The Game?
And if the answer is No, (which it is...) then you might consider cutting it out and bothering somebody else.

Where exactly have you seen opposition on the part of roleplayers to expansion/improvement of the game?
« Last Edit: May 10, 2005, 01:25:44 am by Monketh »
The key to manipulative bargaining is to ask for something twice as big as what you want, then smile and nod when you are talked down to your original wish. You are still young, my apprentice, and have much to learn in the ways of the force. -UtM