How much will I have to change my name?

[Neo Neko]

Originally posted by Lyrah
I still like how the Native Americans came up with names. Many tribes had naming rules where you had TWO names in one life time, your born name and your earned name. The born name could be what your mother saw either shortly after she knew she was pregnant or what she saw shortly after birth or shortly before (Two elks, running bear, little foot for a breech baby that lived). And earned name was a title you EARNED, Eagles Cry (your war cry sounds like an eagle\'s cry, OR you just happen to call out your war cry exactly when an eagle crys on too many occassions to discount it), Silver wolf (the creature you met on your spirit journey), Little calling dove (more than likely the name of a rather soft spoken female of less than remarkable looks, but nice dispossion).

Funny you should mention that. I have an an \"earned\" indian name myself from the tribe I am recognised as being a decendant of. The ottowae. (Though to be honest I have alot of lost indian ancestry from several other tribes as well.) I even thought of using it. But I don\'t identify with it much and didn\'t think it would make a good game name. :p I have an ottowae english dictionary handy though. Perhaps I could find something there I can use and overcome the \"rules\" via cultural obscurity. But then that would not be fair to others. :p

[Nightrogue]

Err...my charecter\'s name is Caelum Proeliatus, which is latin for, depending on how you translate it, sky warrior or soldier of heaven. Seeing as latin is technically a dead language, would this still count as having real words, or do i have to change it?

[Neo Neko]

Originally posted by Nightrogue
Err...my charecter\'s name is Caelum Proeliatus, which is latin for, depending on how you translate it, sky warrior or soldier of heaven. Seeing as latin is technically a dead language, would this still count as having real words, or do i have to change it?

You only have to change it if
1. A GM catches the meaning and thinks it is innapropriate.

2. A GM thinks he knows what it means while getting it completely wrong but still thinks it is somehow inapropriate.

3. A GM thinks it is in refference to a famous work/author/character whether or not it is.

4. A GM feels it simply does not fit in with the rather strict ideals of what a planeshift name should be.(There is no public list of said ideals ATM. But boy do they exist.)

[Teegress]

I have been up and down and all around with folks on this name thing, and here is the concensus to which I have arrived;
You can NOT use the name at all if it meets the following conditions:
It has reference directly or phonetically to any famous person or event, whether living or dead.
It can not be a description of, nor an assignment of or to, any known person, place or event, whether real or fictitious.
It phonetically makes an understood sentence or phrase in English or a translation thereof, no matter what its meaning.
It sounds or infers any materials or concepts of any modern or space oriented themes.
It can not mock, imitate or ridicule any other character, model or subject used in Plane Shift.

These terms are easily understood by most.

The real hard-liners in this game want you to throw a bunch of consonants together and use that kind of name.
Krywrts Zbynvs is not my idea of a name.
The mavericks in the game want to use names either similiar or exactly like are used on irc\'s.  
Whorer Whouser is a creative and to some a humorous name.
Again, not my idea of a name.
What is left is subject to a GM\'s opinion and how he/she feels that day.  They started out with guidelines like the above, but to some, God-mode has kicked in and they change whatever they like, for their own reasons, instead of the terms laid out in the original guidelines.
Some recent events may enlighten a few and they may go back to following the original guides.  I have a \"wait and see,\" attitude on that.

[Karyuu]

I think it takes a lot of arrogance to mock GMs like that. Let\'s not forget that they not only try to look for inappropriate names themselves, but have other players point out such names to them. I myself submit several petitions daily because of the idiocy I find. I don\'t understand why people just cannot get off their high horses on this naming business, stick to a name the higher ups deem appropriate, and move on. Honestly folks, enough is enough. Frankly, I haven\'t seen anyone doing any renaming except for Cad and Zayek lately, and they are far from the amount we really need in-game.

Guys, a name is only a name. It is your character that matters. So can we please be mature about this and accept the decisions of others?

[Teegress]

I\'d like to get off the naming business too, but we can not until there is an understanding of the issues and a solution is reached.  I am not mocking a GM.  I tell the truth.  If there are to be rules about names (and I agree in principle) then they should be stated up front for everyone to understand instead of leaving it to the whim of a young GM.
The only rule about names is:   \"Give yourself a name (first name, then a space, then a last name), keeping in mind that it must be a fantasy or medieval style name.\"
No other help or information is given.
Medieval style name?  Then it should include Latin names as it was the predominant written language of that time. Animal types, people types and even imagined things of that era should also be included.
And fantasy? No limit in this category. This opens a pandora\'s box.  And that is what we have.
And as a last resort:
Why even give people a choice?  Why not just assign the name and be done with it?

[Moogie]

The name rules are stickied in the General forum. All you need do is read them, Teegress. It\'s so simple, it hurts.

[Karyuu]

Originally posted by Teegress
If there are to be rules about names (and I agree in principle) then they should be stated up front for everyone to understand instead of leaving it to the whim of a young GM.

I hope that \"young\" was written to state the -experience- level of the GM, not his or her -age-. And even if you were talking about the experience, then you are far, far mistaken about many of them. So why don\'t you stop jumping to conclusions.

The only real suggestion that has been formulated out of this thread is that the Name Rules should be up for review during the Character Selection process. Nothing else is innovating, nor useful.

Medieval style does not necessarily mean that all actual medieval names (Latin included) will be acceptable. It just means the style may be similar. This is not a medieval world, Teegress, and thus \"animals\" of the medieval world do not belong in Planeshift. Planeshift, I repeat, is its own realm.

This is not hard to grasp. I don\'t even know why you\'re still arguing here. Have you been forced to rename your character? Hasn\'t that occured a while ago? Why is this issue still bothering you? It\'s a name. It\'s not as if the GM made you redo your entire character\'s personality :rolleyes:

[Seytra]

Originally posted by Teegress
I\'d like to get off the naming business too, but we can not until there is an understanding of the issues and a solution is reached.  I am not mocking a GM.  I tell the truth.  If there are to be rules about names (and I agree in principle) then they should be stated up front for everyone to understand instead of leaving it to the whim of a young GM.

The problem are the border cases, which will always be there, no matter what the rules are, because rules can never be precise enough to prevent tricks and stupidity. The only thing that is needed is (un)common sense. If you have any doubts whether what you are about to do is acceptable, then simply don\'t do it.

Originally posted by Teegress
The only rule about names is:   \"Give yourself a name (first name, then a space, then a last name), keeping in mind that it must be a fantasy or medieval style name.\"
No other help or information is given.
Medieval style name?  Then it should include Latin names as it was the predominant written language of that time.

But almost noone was able to write, let alone write latin, so almost noone would have ahd a latin name, save the ones that were used by the romans themselves.

Originally posted by Teegress
Animal types, people types and even imagined things of that era should also be included.

Realistically, who would have named their children \"cow\" or \"donkey\"?

Originally posted by Teegress
And fantasy? No limit in this category. This opens a pandora\'s box.  And that is what we have.

What we have is a bunch of clueless n00bs who don\'t know what RP stands for and what \"roleplay\" means. At best, we have people who have been deranged by other MMO\"RP\"Gs.
Any decent RPer would not need any naming rules, because they would be able to choose a fitting name based on the setting and background. If need be, they would use the name generator without having been told to do so.

\"Medieval Fantasy\" must be interpreted as a whole, not the parts. It is not an \"or\", not even and \"and\". It is a classification which is well-known in RP circles. It is a definition of a genre, like \"science fiction\". Medieval fantasy means that it is not our medieval, but simply a state of scientific development that is similar to what was there in our mediieval times. It also means that there are elements that were not present in our medieval, or at least not exactly as they were (like magic).
Thus, it is a very precise formulation, especially if you look at all the other medieval fantasy RPGs (pen and paper ones, that is). They all show quite clearly what this genre is, and it is nothing like a combination of \"medieval\" and \"fantasy\".

Originally posted by Teegress
And as a last resort:
Why even give people a choice?  Why not just assign the name and be done with it?

A while ago I posted a feature request that is somewhat similar to this on the BT.

@Karyuu: well said!

[Darkblade]

Originally posted by Teegress
And as a last resort:
Why even give people a choice?  Why not just assign the name and be done with it?

Personally, I\'d prefer to make my own name, as the character is all the more close and special to me.
You see, there are many people who would love to give themselves a personal name which fits within the context of the world, and are willing to do so.
Removing that choice would make the realm... different.
Afterall, when we chose the name, it could be part of the character\'s history, like Darkshade\'s history.

Futhermore, well, I\'d say the character name could fit the personality as well, but the guildelines have been set.

[Seytra]

Originally posted by Darkblade
Afterall, when we chose the name, it could be part of the character\'s history, like Darkshade\'s history.

Yes, it might. However, it is my impression that in almost all cases, the backstory is made up solely to justify the name that was chosen for OOC reasons (like having a \"cool\" sounding name or whatever), not the other way around. Hence, I think these should be avoided at all costs, because it instantly makes you look bad.

But yes, the guidelines have been set, and they give everyone an easy cop-out to go ahead with names like that. :rolleyes:

[Teegress]

Originally posted by Seytra
The problem are the border cases, which will always be there, no matter what the rules are, because rules can never be precise enough to prevent tricks and stupidity. The only thing that is needed is (un)common sense. If you have any doubts whether what you are about to do is acceptable, then simply don\'t do it.

Well said.

But almost noone was able to write, let alone write latin, so almost noone would have ahd a latin name, save the ones that were used by the romans themselves.

I can tell reality history was not your strong point.

Realistically, who would have named their children \"cow\" or \"donkey\"?

Believe it or not, people did.

What we have is a bunch of clueless n00bs who don\'t know what RP stands for and what \"roleplay\" means.

Rolling out the red carpet, I see.

At best, we have people who have been deranged by other MMO\"RP\"Gs.

That may be true, but not \"at best.\"

Any decent RPer would not need any naming rules, because they would be able to choose a fitting name based on the setting and background. If need be, they would use the name generator without having been told to do so.

And how many people read instruction manuals nowadays, anyway.  The stickies should be posted in the players guide.  A lot of people do not use the forum at all.  Not everybody comes in here an RP genius.

\"Medieval Fantasy\" must be interpreted as a whole, not the parts. It is not an \"or\", not even and \"and\". It is a classification which is well-known in RP circles. It is a definition of a genre, like \"science fiction\". Medieval fantasy means that it is not our medieval, but simply a state of scientific development that is similar to what was there in our mediieval times. It also means that there are elements that were not present in our medieval, or at least not exactly as they were (like magic).
Thus, it is a very precise formulation, especially if you look at all the other medieval fantasy RPGs (pen and paper ones, that is). They all show quite clearly what this genre is, and it is nothing like a combination of \"medieval\" and \"fantasy\".

You put so much spin on that, I wonder if even you understood what you meant. But it is your interpretation.

[Moogie]

Teegress, if all you\'re going to do is make smart comments at people\'s points, you should stop posting. You make yourself sound so immature here. You agree with Seytra with that first quote in your post, so what else is your point? Why are you continuing the snidey remarks when you seem to have nothing more to discuss on the matter?


Regarding \"Not everyone who comes here is an RP genius.\" Of course not. That\'s why we explain to them; point them in the right direction. And if they are decent, calm, friendly people, they will be grateful for the help and move on, learning the rules so they might abide by them in the future. There\'s nothing wrong with breaking an RP rule if you had no idea it existed but then accept that it exists and abide by it without any fuss. Unfortunately, many people refuse to do this, for reasons I\'ll never fully understand. It is those who come causing trouble and play the \"GMs are so unfair omg!\" card, because they just refuse to learn and accept a rule that they were not aware of when they began playing. But that\'s their problem, and their \'rebellious\' attitudes will get them in more trouble.

[Neo Neko]

Originally posted by Seytra
The problem are the border cases, which will always be there, no matter what the rules are, because rules can never be precise enough to prevent tricks and stupidity. The only thing that is needed is (un)common sense. If you have any doubts whether what you are about to do is acceptable, then simply don\'t do it.

So what you are saying is that if we don\'t want to use the random generator. But are still unsure whether anything we could cobble together on our own would be acceptable. Is that we should just steer clear of Planeshift all together. Kinda short sighted or myopic isn\'t it?

Originally posted by Seytra
What we have is a bunch of clueless n00bs who don\'t know what RP stands for and what \"roleplay\" means. At best, we have people who have been deranged by other MMO\"RP\"Gs.

No. What we have here is an example of a person with a possibly warped and overly idealistic view of what roleplaying should be. No offense intended. But honestly. Take a step back and remember here that this is a comunity that is accessable to a wider comunity of people than your traditional roleplaying clubs offer. It is avalible to anyone on the internet. And I bet among them you can find thousands of definitions about what roleplaying should be that will not agree with the one you hold. So who\'s wrong? Is anyone wrong? Wouldn\'t time and effort be better spend finding a happy medium? Where the hardcore RPers who dress up as their character on a regular basis, can co-exist with those of us that simply create characters as personifacations of aspects of ourselves?

Originally posted by Seytra
Any decent RPer would not need any naming rules, because they would be able to choose a fitting name based on the setting and background. If need be, they would use the name generator without having been told to do so.

Decent? Decent? I pitty the foo that thinks that is decent! When in reality it is only an obtuse overly idealized design for some sort of perfect personal community. One that will always be far from the reality.

Originally posted by Seytra
\"Medieval Fantasy\" must be interpreted as a whole, not the parts. It is not an \"or\", not even and \"and\". It is a classification which is well-known in RP circles. It is a definition of a genre, like \"science fiction\". Medieval fantasy means that it is not our medieval, but simply a state of scientific development that is similar to what was there in our mediieval times. It also means that there are elements that were not present in our medieval, or at least not exactly as they were (like magic).

Again overly simplistic. And you are not going to have an easy time limiting this community to those ideal RP-circle knowing members. Frankly majic in all the varrious forms it has appeared in human history easily covers parallels to those in Planeshift and alot more. Hell advanced technology is magic to someone who does not understand it. Personally I have always been a fan of archaeic universes. And medieval? Medieval what? Brittan? Europe? Asia? Medieval covers alot of ground that would not I suspect be tollerated in the game ATM. In fact my primary character had a name that was basically derived from medieval japan. But I was told it didn\'t fit because it was from some anime.

Originally posted by Seytra
Thus, it is a very precise formulation, especially if you look at all the other medieval fantasy RPGs (pen and paper ones, that is). They all show quite clearly what this genre is, and it is nothing like a combination of \"medieval\" and \"fantasy\".

O lawdy! Where to begin....... D&Ders can be quite obtuse. Probably the reason I never fell in with those circles back when I was in public schools. Seriously for everyones sake stop thinking you are better than everyone else. Come down of your high horse and join the rest of us to build a better comunity/program.

[Karyuu]

Originally posted by Neo Neko
Come down of your high horse and join the rest of us to build a better comunity/program.

The rest of us? The rest of who, people who can\'t seem to understand rules and keep arguing for something they are not going to win anyway? What are we arguing for, again? I\'ve lost all track of this discussion. Are you arguing against the rules themselves, which have already been posted and are final, or arguing for their fine-tuning, or what?

So what you are saying is that if we don\'t want to use the random generator. But are still unsure whether anything we could cobble together on our own would be acceptable. Is that we should just steer clear of Planeshift all together.

I have very strong doubts that anyone here has such a giant colossal lack of creativity that they cannot think up a name suitable to Planeshift. They can look around the forums, they could peek inside the RP section, they can join IRC channels and ask the opinions of others (GMs included) - there is no such thing as an inability to think of a name. You can even get ideas from the generator, if you don\'t want to use it. I don\'t think there is any excuse whatsoever.

In fact my primary character had a name that was basically derived from medieval japan. But I was told it didn\'t fit because it was from some anime.

If it was derived from medieval japan alone, I don\'t think it would\'ve been a problem. However, the anime really pushed it. I hope you don\'t think the decision to change it was unwarranted :)