Ok This Just Cuts It...

[Foresteer]

Clicky
Clicky... The Next Generation
Clicky Mach III
Clicky v.4.0.1

*its a bit of a read but i will at least assume you have read the first 2 clickies*

As the title says \"This Just Cuts It...\" Somehow our current government has found a way to F*** up EVERN MORE! (we arent gonna make it to 2008 sorry guys )

I am NOT showing ID just to cross state lines.. sorry bush and the rest of the senate if you think so you can just screw yourself X(

Yeah SS (funny how you share the same name and function in the same way as hitlers did isnt it?) i just said on the internet bush and the senate can take some device and ram it up thier pertinant orifices if they think im going to follow this.

In fact i have with a vengence resumed the research into the citizenship requirments of some other western (and some of the better eastern) nations..  as one person so boldly and truthfully put it

\"Welcome to the U.S.A.S.S.R comrades!\"

thats right people get your brown suits and hats with red crosses with crossed bible and sickles in the middle!! (not red stars.. instead of marx\'s athiest adgenda we have to follow the bush jesusville adgenda i mean why live to long with stem cells? but thats another rant about out base rights being stolen by the \"keystone kops\" government.. back to the current)

the articles just about sum it up.. i hope you are as outraged as i am! If it doesnt get repealled in the next 3 years when it takes effect, guess what everybody?! the USA is minus one \"pissed off green\" and some other country is plus one \"pissed off and pissed of at his former home country green\" although i\'ll be much less pisssed knowing bush and the rest of the new facist state isnt breathing down my neck

Thoughts anybody?


NOTE: also in further \"conservitives for the people not big government\" big government not for the people news all recruiters had to take the day off to \"supposedly\" learn how to not con sick both mentaly and pysically high school students into fighting in bush\'s iraq

Actualy they are just gonna learn slicker ways to do it...
anyway heres the details (they promise a job skill and collage HA! They actualy dont teach a job skill.. just how to point a gun and shoot.. and how to die for a religion and facist belief you very easily could care nothing about )

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2005/05/12/army_plans_day_off_from_recruitment/


i dunno jackasses maybe people dont wanna join the army because you are ABSOLUTELY WRONG and dont wanna play into your grab of oil and land?!?!?! naaahh ya think?
Funny think about doing the blatently wrong thing.. even saying \"cuz hes a bad man and jesus hates arabs\" wont pull the wool over everybodies eyes... yeah sorry bout that \ *not really*

[derwoodly]

You seem a little tense you should try one of those Kudzu Koolers that I saw on  the site in your sig.

[Foresteer]

hahaha the spocktails! (i say that yesterday.. that does look kinda tasty)

yeah im a little tense about it.. i just learned i am going to be treated *worse* then the common criminal is currently.. what US citizen wouldnt be?

[Jazeera]

Land of the free eh? well nothing wrong with the country and it\'s inhabitants, but the government... well, another reason I am glad I don\'t live in the US...

Off Topic: when I first read this, I thought it was another of those WWIII threads...

[buddha]

Foresteer, you are not alone.

I live in Los Angeles, which went (by some estimates) 95% for Kerry.  Civil rights is one of my hot-button issues.  Even thinking about RealID my blood pressures goes up.

It\'s not even noon, and now I want a Grey Goose martini...

EDIT: For people not from the U.S., the Republican party (Bush\'s party) was founded on the idea of states rights vs. federal rights.  Bush and his cronies crapped all over this idea with the stupid Terry Schiavo thing and now the RealID, which is a national identification card.  OH, there\'s more, but not I\'m too annoyed to continue.

[Foresteer]

Yeah what really boils my blood about it is it passed

100-0!! no opposition by anybody! I think some strange things are going on o.O.

*Foil Hat Time* Ok bush opposes just about everything that lengthens the american lifespan (old people dont spend muchmoney OR pay many taxes) Over the years with products and the \"Xtreme @narchy\" movement has only served to make americas youth politcally apethetic (all of america seems to be). The news muffles anything thats not \"the party line\" (just like the U.S.S.R) and touts the \"governments great doings\" that really do nothing.

 I mean if this was the 1960s there would be millions of people storming the capitol young and old alike.. i dare say American Revolution Against \"King George The 2nd\" would be winding up.

Ohhh yes my friends.. they bided thier time, but the McCarthys and Jim Crows of the world have bided thier time.. Socialistic Facism and once again reared its ugly head; not in iraq, not in europe Or asia but on the HOME FRONT.

what really steams me is its like the \'60s never happened now X( i mean all those students teachers rebels and trailblazers basicaly spent thier lives for nothing... its like we are in the 1950\'s where whatever the bible is \"said to say\" by those in power who read it is just done by the masses. Well at least we got part of the \'50s \"american dream\" back.. the traitorous part anyway :/.

*McCarthy Style \"Terrorist Trails\" And \"Al Queda\" Blacklisting, anybody?*

The whole terrorsist thing has been warped, yes we\'ve been attacked, WITH A COUNTER-ATTACK we struck first by building our bases wherever the hell our dictators felt and by changeing the world-wide politcal scene.. these people *most anyway* i actlualy feel are justified in many of thier riots and action. They see a problem and they take to the streets and *try to* STOP IT. not like fat-assed yuppie america where \"God says respect you leaders even though they are the closest thing to satan we will ever see\" and we just sit at home and bitch about it, and even when those of us DO act it gets muffled.. More people protested iraq then did vietnam.. yet you NEVER HEARD OF IT!!

In short... by shares in ammunition compainies.. we\'ll all be rich when \"Freedom Wars: King George Strikes Back\" happens.

Everything America had in checks and balances has been swept away. the government does at it pleases
\"Welcome to 1984 my friends its only 21 years late\".

PC is even forging newspeak.. they use \"more correct words\" for things such as violent uprising against us just doing as we please \"uprising against our freedom\". look around you people.. jeez i spent most of my life gearing up to blast the NWO to hell when it raised its ugly head...

And I\'ll be damned if it didnt sneak up on me ;(

Good to hear it buddha... now anybody got any ideas on how o roll back the political clock? ive halted all hobbies and have buckled down on thinking of ways to turn it around.

Hell i fear the sun and socialising more the facism itself ** and ive been ordering pamphlets and walking up to strangers to spread the word

Final though: take action people

(even non-americans can help... more then you think, if YOUR politicians find out about it and this law gets a critique from a forein power then its not only going to make news.. but will put it in the american eye and make OUR senators squemish about losing votes and popular opinion.. wanna help make america not be a power-hungry beast.. heres your chance to help! )

We may not prevail in the short term. but when people remeber how we said it was gonna be like crossing into mexico just to get from one state to another, they will relise and they will be PISSED.. it may take a lot to rile americans these days but we still hold the ideal when we finaly DO get everybody pissed.. things change and it gets scary >:| heheheheh anyway GOOD LUCK!

[derwoodly]

As much as I enjoy Buddha\'s posts I have to point out for those that don\'t live in the states, that LA is in California.  Which is also refered as the left coast.  The fact that LA voted for Kerry by 95% shows how out of touch LA is with the rest of the country (not sure where that number came from, but I trust Buddha\'s numbers).  Speaking of numbers, Bush won the popular vote by a wide margin.  Bigger than most of the other presidents.

This is not too say Bush is perfect, or some how he will be elected for a third term, or turn the US into a theocracy as some have claimed. None of that is going to happen.  

Back on topic.  The id is nessasary because are Drivers licenses are worthless as id cards.  It is just is too easy to get one.   As for loosing your privacy, that has already happend, and will continue to happen.  It is a global trend that shows no sign of stopping.

Here is a quote from MSNBC on what Kerry would do for security.  I doubt Kerry would have any objections to national ID cards. ( the beauty of quoting Kerry is he plays both sides of the fense!)

Kerry: Kerry has made fulfilling the 9/11 Commission?s anti-terrorism blueprint a top priority, vowing to ?immediately implement? its recommendations if elected.  Kerry has a five-point plan for improving homeland security: improving country?s ability to track down terrorists by overhauling the intelligence community and how these agencies interact; plug security holes at airports, seaports and borders;

@Buddha - Relax video games are getting better and better soon you will never need to leave the house anyways!

[buddha]

Howdy again,

The 95% figure is not accurate.  I know it is somewhere in there, as the central california valley voted mostly for Bush but the cities went for Kerry, and the state itself was about 80% Kerry.  Thus the cities were greater than 80% for Kerry and some people said as high as 95%.

But, as a point of fact, Bush did not win the popular vote by a wide margin.  It was a rather slim margin.  I could get the figures, but it doesn\'t seem like it\'s worth our time here.

Last, Bush ran on an anti-gay, anti-terrorism platform.  Most of the cities went Kerry--you know, the people who actually have to interact with gay people and are the ones that will be affected by terrorism.  If you live in Sioux City, Iowa, neither homosexuals (who are strongly closeted there) nor terrorists (who agree it\'s not worth their time) will be an actual \"menace\" to you.  Thus, it is the Midwest and rural areas who are out of touch.

YOu know, I should stop this.  This isn\'t the place for political debate.  I am very frustrated by this administration for a number of reasons.

So... think the Lakers will get Phil Jackson back?

[derwoodly]

Heh! Basketball!
Now your pressing my buttons!  Pro sports today make our government look like a shining emerald city!

Back on topic.  I have lived in California all my life, I have lived in the Bay Area most of my life, have freinds that are gay, voted for Democrats, been to Powwow\'s and earth days and listened to NPR,  and bunch of other liberal activities.

I challenge you to see the other side of the coin.  For one year, pretened your a red neck country boy and kick some liberal arse.

[buddha]

That is an interesting excercise. I do actually try that once in a while.  I come back to the same fundamental problem: there are some positions which are inherently indefensible.  I am an agnostic.  I do not believe in any sort of god or soul or divine force.  So a good example of \"stepping into the other guy\'s shoes\" is to try to think like a Christian.

So let\'s pretend I\'m an American style fundamentalist Christian.  I would believe the homosexuality is some sort of offense to God.  Further, I would believe that it is a personal choice rather than biological consequence.  Now, I would be forced to conclude that gays are deliberately sinning and doing Satan\'s work.  Since I am now a fundamentalist, I conclude that homosexuals are actually evil and must be stopped at all costs.

Of course, fundamentalist christianity is inherently indefensible.  All you can say is: \"God said it\", though you cannot even defend that god actually said it because of biblical inconsistencies and ambiguities.  Thus it is an article of faith and completely divorced from the realm of debate.

I get myself into these spins all the time.  I think I can see why these fundamentalists do things that I think are so terribly immoral, but there motives are excluded from debate.

This leads me to an example I like to use.  I expect a large majority of forum members are men.  As men, and probably kind of nerdy men, we have experienced the \"best friend\" phenomenon with some woman we were interested in.  How frustrating is it to hear her say \"I just want a guy who will treat me with respect\" ? I mean, here you are, treating her with respect and she doesn\'t even consider wanting you.  So what\'s up?

Well, I have come to the conclusion that people really don\'t know what they want.  Men who treat women poorly tend to attract women, though none of them ever complain to their friends \"I just want a guy to abuse me\".  Why? Well, rudeness and self-interest sometimes come off as strength.  

(I\'m getting back to topic now)

So when you ask a fundamentalist why they hate homosexuals, they present some reason like \"god hates f**s\" or something retarded like that.  In fact, they are expressing a gut instinct they don\'t understand in a way they feel is sociably acceptable.  They don\'t understand their motives, so they create reasons.  Unfortunately, religion, like alcohol, is often a socially acceptable reason for immoral behavior.

Ask yourself this question: Why do you avoid the odor of feces?  Probably all of us find it disgusting, but there is no good reason.  We could come up with one, but that is a high level justification for something very basic.

Because of this, I try as hard as I can to make decisions based on reason.  I don\'t always succeed. But reason leads me to very \"liberal\" opinions.  For instance, ~80% (I don\'t know the actual figure) of gun violence in the U.S. is a member of the gun owner\'s family using it on another member of the gun owner\'s family.  Therefore, we should reduce the number of guns in this nation.  This seems reasonable to me.

In much the same way, a RealID card will probably be used by credit card, insurance and marketing companies much more often than the federal government.  More U.S. citizens have died in Iraq as a member of an invading army than have been killed by terrorists of any nation.  Thus, reason tells me this war is a failure.  Things like that.

Wow, I really went on.  My appreciation to any of you that have made it this far...

[derwoodly]

http://washingtontimes.com/metro/20030730-093823-2459r.htm

Now that I have grown up a bit I think it is naive to think that all county folk are out of touch with reality.  Consider this, you live in LA.  A place made famous by Disney land and Hollywood.  Now who is in touch with reality?

Back to topic
National ID is no big deal.  I mean really how many times do you cross state lines?  And it is not like every road has a checkpoint.  And you?re already required to carry all sorts of ID anyways.

[Edit: I got the numbers for Bush Kerry.  Bush 52 Kerry 47.  Seems like were both wrong on that one. Unless you think 5% is slim.  For comparison Reagan got 59% in what was called a landslide]

[Edit: Girls are not the only ones who make dumb dating decisions, Good guys dating bad girls is a stereotype too]

[buddha]

I totally agree with your second edit.

Showing papers to cross state lines is a big deal.  Think of the Soviet Union,  the communist Eastern block and Nazi Germany.  Do you think this information is really going to stop a single terrorist?  Remember, all the 9/11 hijackers had valid visas.  We should have been able to track them through their visas, but we didn\'t.

Show me another nation that requires paper for internal travel and I\'ll show you a dictatorship.

5% is not a large margin, especially not compared to other presidents.

EDIT: Now I\'m all irritated again.  Not with you, but the situation.

We have just sent our young men, and some of my friends, overseas to die for \"freedom\" and \"liberty\".  What does that mean?  What do \"freedom\" and \"liberty\" mean to you, to anyone?

When the day comes that we are under video surveillance within our own homes, noone will complain.  That\'s because it won\'t happen overnight, it will be the culmination of many steps.  Requiring papers for travel is one of those steps.  Soon, you won\'t just need an ID, you will need permission.   And don\'t think I\'m being melodramatic.  Ashcroft saw to it under the Patriot Act that federal agents can enter your home when you are away and never inform you of it.  Now, the Bush Administration is trying to allow them to do this without a warrant.  This is what Bush stands for:

1.  National ID to allow internal travel.
2. Prisoners held without attorneys as long as they are dubbed \"terrorists\".  American citizens have been sent over seas (to Cuba) to be held without bail, trial, representation or notice to their families.
3. Federal Agents may enter your home at any time without informing you or charging you with a crime.
4. The U.S. Congress has the right to determine your personal decisions with regards to euthanasia, marriage and reproduction.
5. National policy, including the decision to go to war, is crafted by Halliburton and the proceedings are not available to the public.  (Cheney\'s recent trial was thrown out by a Bush appointee)

This is not Reagan\'s republican party.  This is a nightmare.  Don\'t be an apologist for fascism.

[derwoodly]

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[Edit: I replaced the dumb remarks with dots.  I was just a bit frustrated with Bush bashing.  Just to make things clear, I do think Bush has made mistakes, but I don\'t think he deserves the nonsense of the original poster.  Truthfull I should know better than respond to this, so I will shut up now]
 

[Foresteer]

Ahh this is the Ps chatter I have been missing for a while.. at least its back =).. anyway let me throw my hat into the ring if I may *and I may *

Bush makes Herbert Hoover Look Like George Washington (Herbert hoover basicaly brought on the great depression and the rise in american socialistic parties in the 30\'s to combat him)

You Call it \"Bush-Bashing\" I equate it to \"Hitler-Bashing\" or \"Stalin-Bashing\" (leave them alone guys!.. jeez they\'ve made mistakes but thier just trying to help us :rolleyes: )

Not must else to add but Ive been reading some James Carville *aka the \"Rajun Cajun\"* and boy has these books got me psyched.. I totaly recommend them with the uttmost you\'ll listen to me (he has politics, food, freedom and other stuff all in one book whats not to like?)

Anyway keep spreading the word of our grave injustice.. im gonna get back to reading

*note yeah... constitutional amendment to legistlate (and voiding the most important precept of the constitution \"speration of church and state\" remeber that thing that keeps the church out of government AND the government out of church? it helps both sides you know) morality *gay marrige*, Halting stem cells to make us live shorter, Privitizing a program hes trying to fix but his \"fixes\" are what broke it in the first place, Murdering 1,000+ our boys to feed his father and cheney *both oil barons go figure*

Your right.. jee willkers that guys swell a \"Real American Man\" right up there with McCarthy or Even Jim Crowe!

[Monketh]

1.) If I recall correctly, even France has a national ID already.
2.) The Government already has your information, it\'s just spread out.
3.) Information gathering companies may have more on you than your government.

4.) To compare Bush to Hitler or Stalin trivializes the evil of two of history\'s worst dictators.  That alone should be enough to discredit you.  That Bushitler BS seems very common among liberals lately, and I feel sad because it distances people from new ideas, ergo less debate, less difference of opinion, fewer solutions.  You guys really need to hire a PR consulting firm.

5.) Foresteer, you\'re bordering on making me more conservative with your ranting.  
McCarthyism went down the drain, and Bush\'s approval ratings have proggresively gotten lower.  Bush will go down the drain, too.