reasons for jobs

[shorty13]

jobs should be worked on because:

1) they are needed for many other skills/implementations (such as thieving {depending on the system used}, player run economy/government, etc.)

2) It would allow players to RP as an ordinary citizen, not as an adventure/creature killer.

3) Kind of goes with #2.  It allows people to make a some money without having to kill creatures for loot and finding quests.  It also will balanceout a little bit more the problem of pp vs. money.  It helps people start off to buy cheap stuff.

4) If jobs are ever implemented, more than likely players will have to create new characters or there must be a wipe, unless the first time a player logs in after jobs are implemented, they are brought to a screen where they can select a job.  (which would be more work than a wipe or something).  And also the devs stated that they don\'t want to have to do the wipe again after they do it.

What do you guys think?
All I can say is that I hope it will be implemented fairly soon.

[ajdaha]

I don\'t like the concept of jobs anyway. Why do people have to be confined to jobs to do actions. If I am not a doctor it does not mean that I cannot seal wounds or deliver a baby.

[zabeal]

Originally posted by ajdaha
I don\'t like the concept of jobs anyway. Why do people have to be confined to jobs to do actions. If I am not a doctor it does not mean that I cannot seal wounds or deliver a baby.

Ah, but who are the people who we trust to deliver babies? The people who have done it over and over again. Saying someone who has a job is good at something does not mean that no one else can do it, but no one else deals with it as regularly.

In general with PS, there are no classes, so why limit people to one occupation as well? But then again, if you choice to focus, you will be stronger in that one area. It\'s up to you to choice.

[Moogie]

There\'s a difference between jobs and skills. You can still practice any skills you want. But a job should offer a means of income and career prospects through using those skills.

[ajdaha]

Job titles are needed in life to summarise what a peson can do for another person that wshes to evaluate person number 1.
But why do we need such titles in a game when a character can be evaluated by his skills as quick as I can say \"acceptable\"?

[MaidenIndigo]

Originally posted by ajdaha
I don\'t like the concept of jobs anyway. Why do people have to be confined to jobs to do actions.

It\'s called comparative advantage.

Modern economies have very specialized individuals in the work force to the point where it seems so commonplace that you don\'t really think about it.  In another MMORPG I used to play regularly, I was a fisherperson.  Why?  Because I enjoyed chatting with the other fishers and my skill level was high enough that it made my character some good money.  I didn\'t fight regularly because I wasn\'t very good at it compared to other players and I made more money/hour fishing than fighting.

It has been proven by economists time and time again that hiring based on comparative advantage is the best way to improve a country\'s economy.  \"Jack-of-all-trades\" sorts of workers like in many third-world countries aren\'t able to make as much money because they\'re kind of good in a bunch of different professions, whereas specialized workers are very good in one or two professions.

Anyway, I agree with Zabeal that jobs would be too confining (personally, I play PS to get away from my job )  But to say that any ol\' person can set broken bones and birth babies is a bit silly.  I wouldn\'t want Hilgar the Savage of the clan \"Bloodthirst\" delivering my newborn kitten.  That sounds like something Lady Clavierwood of the clan \"Talad\'s Mercy\" might do instead.

Job titles would be nice because a person\'s skills are not visible to other players.  Someone would have to tell you \"I have level X [skill].\"

If jobs were to be implemented, they shouldn\'t be forced onto a player right away.  A player should first be able to test the waters and see what skills s/he likes most.  Then they would be able to go to, say...Gillian Scalebrook, the master chef and offer up their fishing or cooking services for a fixed monthly fee.  Depending on whether or not the character has a high enough level fishing or cooking skill, the player would either be hired or turned down.

One thing, though...would two-week-notices apply in PlaneShift?  XD

~Indi

ps - I\'m watching too many episodes of the X-files...Gillian Scalebrook? ~_~;

[Nilrem]

Mmmm what an exciting topic...
Fisherman, fighter, healer...
Didn\'t anyone of you already realised that the job that, eventually, is going to give you the most income would be the psychiatrist one?
I think Jayose has a beautiful hunt i would borrow...
The first visit has no charge!

PS: ergg too many forum reading = Headache. Btw, who was going to be the doctor?? XDDD

PD: Edit: Now that i see the other topic (Hi MaidenIndigo!) (?!?)

[ajdaha]

But you see, what I\'m trying to day is that there is no need for jobs. Skills such as delivering a baby could be learnt. These days if you want to be able to deliver a baby you will most likely take a whole course in medicin learning lots of things which you don\'t need to do what you set out to do. It wastes time where as in a skill based proffession system you choose which skills you learn individually, that way, since planeshift doesn\'t fuction like the real world, you can take advantage of your skills in a more appropriate way.

Edit: why do they make dar-chocolate ice cream? Its so unbearably bitter.
Yuk, Yuk. Throw Up

[roguewolftamer]

if ur every going to put jobs in, it should be craft-wise, cause combat jobs limit the game too much.

career jobs are fine for crafting reasons (and you can gain the title that job offers)

[Aspasia]

I personally like the idea of jobs, so long as its the user\'s choice.  There are some people who would love to be craftspeople, and it doesn\'t mean that they\'d just sit around making things all day. After all, you have to go acquire materials, and some of those materials might mean going on a quest to obtain them.

You could get quite an economy going, with miners selling their ores to shop owners/crafters to make things. And people could specialize.  Like you could have people that become great shield-makers, but others who are all around smithy\'s.

But there are many things that I think would need to be considered to support such a system. For one, the skill level someone has should determine the qualities and/or quantities of what they produce. There has to be some way to balance it so that one person,  or group of people, don\'t dominate the industry forever and cause price inflation.

Also there would need to be some place where people could set up a shop so other players always know where to go to get their goods. Either be able to own or rent one of the buildings in the towns, or set up some sort of marketplace.

I also think it would be neat if people could \"apprentice\" with someone of a higher level instead of just training via NPCs.

Of course all of these things would have to be balanced to prevent abuse. The apprenticing should have costs associated with it somehow.

And something that will have to be considered no matter how \"crafting\" is implemented is a means of preventing regions from turning into a shouting match of vendors trying to advertise.

But this are just MHO of course ;o).

[Cha0s]

Originally posted by Aspasia
Of course all of these things would have to be balanced to prevent abuse. The apprenticing should have costs associated with it somehow.

Not necessarily. A master may take an apprentice for free either out of the goodness of his/her heart or for free labor. Either way, there doesn\'t HAVE to be a cost.

[Aspasia]

Originally posted by Cha0s

Originally posted by Aspasia
Of course all of these things would have to be balanced to prevent abuse. The apprenticing should have costs associated with it somehow.

Not necessarily. A master may take an apprentice for free either out of the goodness of his/her heart or for free labor. Either way, there doesn\'t HAVE to be a cost.

I just see a potential hole that could be abused so that people level in a broad swath too fast. What I meant by \"cost\" doesn\'t necessarily mean \"materal\" costs, but costs in time or some limits. For instance, only allow 1:1 relationships for master/apprentice at any given time.

[roguewolftamer]

maybe it could be a benefit thing, almost like an allegiance

u become the apprentice to someone who\'s mastered that craft and in return u get benefits, other then his personal help, like getting a bonus in what you craft (a better chance to make items) or even just learn recipes that ur master knows

[keder]

apprenticeships i\'ve had, i got paid for. it was a very low rate, based on the master\'s evaluation of my skill, plus a reduction since i was specifically learning from him rather than truly working for him. as my skill improved, so did my pay and i began to take on projects that were for clients rather than \"learning assignments\" (ie: thrown away after). to cover the costs of paying me and learning materials before i started to take on client projects, i also got the \"shit work\" (sweep floors, wash walls, etc.). things that need to be done, but no one wants to do. and it is hard to justify hiring someone for it, but very easy to have an apprentice do it as \"disiplinary training\" (learning to follow the master\'s orders).

some of this would translate very well into PS, other parts not so well. it is certainly an idea worth examining. PS limits could run along the lines of the master can\'t train any higher than 3 below her own ranking. there probably should also be a master/trainer skill for it, to teach the basics of how to break a skill down and teach the pieces to a student.

perhaps:

trainer skill = (skill - 3) = max able to train someone else to

so someone ranked 4 in training and 11 in sword would be able to train an apprentice only up to 4 in sword.

with 11 in training and 11 in sword, she would be able to train an apprentice up to 8 in sword.

outside of it being a PC rather than an NPC that does the training, i don\'t see any other changes. (still need progression points, still need to practice what you learn before learning more, etc.)

more to think about...

--- keder maloy