opinion against savage capitalism

[fken]

I agree with that:

2: an economic theory advocating free competition and a self-regulating market and the gold standard

for me liberalism is allowing the companies to do everything they want: free market, ... . For me the liberalism is the fact that the government wont forbidden anything to the industries and to the companies.
For me \"liberalism with capitalism with individualism\" is what I called savage capitalism.
Off course it works together and it gives the actual WTO.

[Nada]

Originally posted by fken
so... are you thinking like me? I didnt get if you though like me cause when I read this I think you try to contradict me (\"That might be the case but\". And sorry but if they turn into human bombs its because they think their life cost less than their idea... of course there are indoctrination!

Well you might be a wee bit indoctrinated
I meant to say that it is possible, and it\'s certainly the case for some atleast, that the thought \"my life\'s not worth it so I might just blow myself up for the good cause\" might not be the result of their own reasoning but rather instilled in them through brainwashing.

Originally posted by fken
be sure that the one who made the translation arent his friends: they are his ennemies... logically you cant believe in them... but I understand there is a problem cause it means we cannot judge Bin Laden as long as we cant speak arabian...

Another conspiration theory. To my knowledge, the Arabic media reported the same things as the Western media with regard to the content of his speeches.

Originally posted by fken
you speak about a natural process???
...
We know today that humanity is amazingly increasing the process...

Here are the causes of desertification (UN Convention to Combat Desertification)
I agree that I should not have used the world \"natural\" but I was under the impression that you were blaming global warming and I wrote \"natural\" when trying to say \"not caused by human activities creating global warming\". I do not dispute the fact the humans play a part in desertification. From the little research I\'ve done on the web, the Sahara desert formed around 4500BC, some time after cattle were introduced by humans. Should we see a causal link between those two events, I don\'t know.

Originally posted by fken
if you want to create a fusion reaction you have to create a fission reaction first (-> it\'s still dangerous... it\'s less dangerous but it\'s still dangerous...)

I\'m not a physicist. I did not know that, can you explain or post a link please? I\'ve heard no chain reaction was involved. Do you find renewable sources of energy completely satisfying, in terms of danger to the environment that is (not energy production capacity)?

Originally posted by Foresteer
france worked fine without the EU in the past ... they just become one garbled stew of nations then each nation blends into itself

Well, in the past France had its colonies, its naval power, (perhaps one could include its thinkers and philosophers), and its language was \"the\" lingua franca. The UK has pretty much lost the same things except that its language is now the lingua franca.
Concerning the garbled stew, the constitution 54.87% of French voters rejected stated in article I-3 (The Union\'s objectives): The European Union \"shall respect its rich cultural and linguistic diversity, and shall ensure that Europe\'s cultural heritage is safeguarded and enhanced.\"

[Zan]

Originally posted by fken
This is what the great majority of french (maybe european) think about america.

As an european I would like to give more truth to this statement by altering one world.

This is what the ignorant majority of french (maybe european) think about america.

As the number one in the world America is target to a lot of criticism from other countries, especially Europe who is looking to compete with the US\' place in the world. While america isn\'t perfect and there are definitely some things done better in Europe, only a completely ignorant person would call a once backwater continent that managed to become the number one economic and military superpower in the world in only a few hundred years crappy. America\'s succes speaks for itself in my eyes.

Also do not judge a country and it\'s inhabitants by the actions of it\'s leader. Leaders come and go.

[Keyaz]

so what is going on? its over my head
is this pact against freedom of speech or something?

America sucks, but im not gonna bomb it or mail Anthrax to bush, no point, people do things their way, and you can sto p them, get on with life

thats what i honestly think.

anyway, continue your ramblings ^^

[fken]

Yeah Demarthl yeah lol

---
you spoke about indoctrination... why not... look around you! Around me I grow up with a bad picture of USA and with an incridibly beautiful one.
The bad is what adults said about USA: the pollution, the justice (\"I fund an insect in my hamburger!\"),Bush, Ronald reagan, Swarzenegger, Columbine, weapons, Gangs, violence, they are scared by s e x and cant live without watching violence at tv, racism, ... really I think there is a real bad ad for the USA in these arguments...
The good one is more implicit but it\'s the patriotism of the USA, the one that you see in their movies. There is always a good american who save the world. Oh off course not in all the american movies (Michael Moore? :rolleyes:  lol) ... no Im sure you are not understanding me... so I must give example: Independance day (where a US citizen find the solution to save the world), Will Hunting (the genius is born in united state). No you want a better example? -> do you know what the CIA, the SWAT, the FBI, the pentagon and the white house are? And do you know how are called the spies service of the Congo? of the chilian? of india? What the name of their government? and so one...
->what I called beautiful picture of USA is everything which make you think they are more powerful than the rest of the universe...

I dont understand arabic and as the subject is really important I WILL NEVER CONCLUDE ANYTHING AS LONG AS I DONT LISTEN TO EVERYBODY. When someone tell you that someone is a thief do you send him to the jail without knowing what he did? The accusations are too important to believe in the first thing you listen. I just listen to what journalists sumed up from the translation of an anonymous...
This is not a conspiration theory but simply a security : Dont forget the population can be wrong sometimes (WW1 and Jean Jaures murder for example). Thinking you have ennemy without thinking why is what I called ignorance.

What\'s \"lingua franca\"?

Zan you spoke about compete? Do you think it\'s sport? Do you think we are all trying to become the best and that individualism is good?
For me the USA arent an example just because they werent fair play.
Europa can do the same thing too:
They can sell weapons to united state and to their ennemies during 3 or 4 years and then, once Soldiers are tired waging a war and protect american. After they could give money by forcing people to buy european products and after 60 or 80 years Europa can say to USA, \"eh! we saved your ass during the war now you have to follow our decisions with the war in Iraq\".
Off course it\'s not what intelligent americans said. Off course it\'s not what the government said (maybe Bush but Bush is an original). Off course it wasn\'t the government which sold the weapon to the Germany (... I dont think it\'s the government... if it was the government warn me please)... but I will never have respect for their acts! If they are rich it\'s only because they fund benefits where Europa was wrong (the two WW !) and where victims was suffering.

You spoke about ignorance? One of my friends went to united states to study. I asked : \"how did you find it\". She answered she needed 3 monthes to adapt herself to their mad way of life, to the environmental issues because she wanted to shout when she saw their mad behaviours... I think it\'s an educational problem cause even in France I everytime see dumb people who dont care about nature and drop batteries outside their car windows for example... but she said me americans were worse... someone to agree?

To be honest I must quote an american friend who is here in france and said me french bank are &$%$%$... He said that the issues he had dont exist in USA (the banks are abusing here, I recognize...).

I will pm you, Nada, and explain it in french to you (nuclear fusion subject).

[Foresteer]

Im gonna go gentlel on the *supposed * american bashing because i cant really make heads or tails of it i can only address what i understood so i may sound scattered.

\"We saved your ass\" thing.. yeah some rednecks still tout that but then again you saw hitler and didnt even start work on a military, you where kinda asking for it. I must commend the actions of the french resistence though, they did they best possible with what there was. Also it was kinda paying back the Statue of Liberty and the funding of OUR revolution (which we would have lost without french intervention despite what some historians whos eyes are full of \"stars and stripes\" say) You saved us, We helped you *barbary coast and other events* and pay you back for the revolution, You give us a sweet statue thats been the pride of our nation ever since, We kicked the nazis out of your country sounds pretty fair to me.

As for columbine and whatnot.. You can\'t drudge up every skeleton in our closet and say thats the way we are (need i only mention a dictator like... I dunno Napoleon? the very man who invented buerocracy? Enough Said )
Dont wanna go on nation bashing and i have missunderstood that just explaining we all have problems that we must address (also we are bigger then you guys by far.. so the idiot ratio goes way up the more people there are XD )

Also if i may ask when did your friend come here? (depending on the year they very well may be \"mad ways\" we have fixed just about every one that existed 5 to 10+ years ago thanks to people such as greepeace and the libertarian party). I have friends who have gone to france and say that french are full of themselves and condescending and that the nation is corrupt and doesnt get much done... Do i beileve them? No! Even if i trust them their views are skewed by living in america so long. I will only form an opinion once i visit myself and i encourage you to do the same

As for Arney (shawtzi-whatnot) and i found a bug in my soup.. that comes from either the right wing or from idiots (ofter the two are one in the same.. its been a mad 5 years my friend )

also i watch TV so what? Scared of sex now you are just talking about things you dont know (yeah there are those people who thing just because they had sex and got pregnant *the very definition of stuppid in my book* na dhad a smaller whiney EVERN MORE ANNOYING monster spoiled form of themselves that they can run TV and Radio as they see fit.. but they are the magority.. and the masses in all countries are stupid)

Also as i recall rascim is RAMPANT in europe (just one example belgiums and germans i could look it up more but whats the point?) .. we have just about eradicated it here and it barely comes up any more over here so :rolleyes:

Im even not gonna address all the points you made as i dont have to. For every one of those i could find a french counterpart i promise you.. the problems you mention are human (as in all of us), not American

Also nuclear fussion? Sweet Cold fussion is better though (and it exists, energy companies just pay to have it taught otherwise)

EDIT: also have you heard of San Fransisco? Portland, Oregon? they are on and above european par on ecological issues and the idiot ratio is almost non-existent from what I\'ve seen AND heard.. truely grand cities they are (not suprisingly they are on \"the left coast\".. maybe why they are so great )

[Nada]

Originally posted by fken
Around me I grow up with a bad picture of USA and with an incridibly beautiful one. The bad is what adults said about USA: the pollution, the justice (\"I fund an insect in my hamburger!\",Bush, Ronald reagan, Swarzenegger, Columbine, weapons, Gangs, violence, they are scared by s e x and cant live without watching violence at tv, racism, ... really I think there is a real bad ad for the USA in these arguments...
The good one is more implicit but it\'s the patriotism of the USA, the one that you see in their movies. There is always a good american who save the world.
...
I WILL NEVER CONCLUDE ANYTHING AS LONG AS I DONT LISTEN TO EVERYBODY
...
The accusations are too important to believe in the first thing you listen.

Let me get this right, you do not wish to accuse anyone unless you get everybody\'s side of the story, yet you rely on hearsay, a handful of political leaders, and TV to judge the USA and its 293 million citizens?
Also, as far as I know, French people are generally the heroes in French movies. I suspect this is pretty much the same everywhere.

Originally posted by fken
And do you know how are called the spies service of the Congo? of the chilian? of india? What the name of their government? and so one...

I don\'t know the name of their secret services, so I\'ll conclude that either they have none or they have pretty good ones (I\'m reasonably sure that India has one because of the tensions with Pakistan).
[edit] You\'ve peaked my curiosity , so I did some more research:
The chief intelligence agency in India is called the Research and Analysis Wing or RAW. Chile has a semiformal umbrella group called the National Intelligence Directorate or DINA (obviously one of Pinochet\'s favorite tools). I guess Congo has some form of secret service or police (afterall they had to suffer Mobutu\'s dictatorship), can\'t find the name. [/edit]
As a Frenchman you should know that the president of the Democratic Republic of Congo is Joseph Kabila (had to search for his first name). India\'s Prime Minister is Manmohan Singh (my background helped me there). As for the President of Chile, I must confess that I had to resort to a web search, it\'s Ricardo Lagos Escobar.

What\'s \"lingua franca\"?

A lingua franca is \"a language used as a common language between speakers whose native languages are different\" (Compact Oxford Dictionary).

[fken]

one us-citizen polluted 4 times more than one european
And even if all the chineses pollute like the european it would be an ecological disaster...
...
Even if I think I must see before judging I think it must be true (because it has been told by good source: scientists for example)
president bush asked for buying pollution rights of african countries (do you think it\'s normal?)

What changed the state of the world was the WW1 and dont worry American wait 4 years...
in the WW2 they was forced to enter the war because of Japan. But who know how the things would happened if there were no Pearl Arbour...

The racism in Europa exists. one of my grand-father is algerian (Kabyle) and I cant tell you I\'ve been insulted since I was 7 because of my origins...

cold fusion is still a myth I  dunno if it already exists and really I think our government are too proud: they are not as powerful as they are saying!

I dont think Columbine is the way you are! But it happened! The violence exists and omg guns are still sold to children! freely!

and the masses in all countries are stupid

The first thing you have to know about manipulation is that if you want to manipulate someone you have to make him think he is superior, untouchable, impossible to manipulate...
Every people think they are more intelligent than the mass of the population. The tv show us we are all more intelligent than our neighbourghood. A french poll shows us that the french think they drive better than the others frenches...

French army still existed and fight close to the britishs during this war. Never forget that. The problem is that everyone was manipulated. In my mind Hitler would have been killed quickly. Some people used him because he was popular but its government would not survive once the peace would come. I think the only thing the allies saved was the trade and the democracy but the democracy would reappears after... as you said france had dictators in its history like Napoleon and the the things would be quiet today even if Hitler won the war... off course its nice that Allies win but I wont judge the situation more horrible than how it was. The only real problem was the KZ: it was the real awful thing of that war.

I spoke about american image here in France but off course americans, frenches and the others humans arent really different. So I think its a human problem too... but I think it\'s an educational problem before everything.

Nada you dont answer to my question : what\'s the name of their government? not their presidents! (its curious... I knew only escobar...)

and for my sentences \"I WILL NEVER CONCLUDE ANYTHING AS LONG AS I DONT LISTEN TO EVERYBODY\", I was sure you wouldnt get it... I dunno why... but I was sure. So what I wanted to say was : the american opinion and the opposition opinion... You are not objective cause you knew what I was saying...

[Foresteer]

Originally posted by fken
I dont think Columbine is the way you are! But it happened! The violence exists and omg guns are still sold to children! freely!

Either your being ironic with the eurpoean opinion again or you are malinformed SEVERELY

There are european school shootings too.. In fact even with all that \"gun control\" europe has more gun crime then we do (sources Wall Street Journal AND Deutch Welle *see  American AND German newspapaers agree*)

Also Im sorry about your grandfather.. Racism only breeds more racism so dont let it get to ya

Cold fusion has been practically tested in japan and india and even in france i think .. the worlds formost alternitive energy nations

I saw a forum page where a family named there child \"aryan pride\", Ive seen people re-elect bush.. Trust me the masses are stupid :rolleyes: Ive seen it (i dont drive better then anybody though.. i dont drive as its a pollutant. I walk or bike everywhere, trust me though I am the exception to the rule when it comes to not polluting ya\'ll europeans aint got nothing on me :] now if only i can get the rest of my country to do as i do XD )

Also i am aware of that statistic but things have really cleaned up as my sited sourced greenpeace and the green party which has suprisingly been working alongside libertarians lately have been getting more and more pissed AND active about american pollution.. i would dare say we only pollute twice as much (yeah still bad but twice as good as before )
 
As capitalism is doing its thing (oil prices are so high that coroprate GREED ACTUALY MAKES them design more eco-friendly things.. irony in its finest, the people who got rich raping the planet now have to save it or go bankrupt)

Aint revenge a bitch?

AS for the ww1 ww2 thing i have no clue what you mean.. but i hoped clear up the stuff i did understand

[fken]

Originally posted by Foresteer

Originally posted by fken
I dont think Columbine is the way you are! But it happened! The violence exists and omg guns are still sold to children! freely!

Either your being ironic with the eurpoean opinion again or you are malinformed SEVERELY

There are european school shootings too.. In fact even with all that \"gun control\" europe has more gun crime then we do (sources Wall Street Journal AND Deutch Welle *see  American AND German newspapaers agree*)

Also Im sorry about your grandfather.. Racism only breeds more racism so dont let it get to ya

first why are you sorry for my grand father?

then ? what are you saying about school shouting in Europa??? As you said I NEVER LEARNT ANYTHING ABOUT THAT.
Are we thinking about the same? shooting is for gun using? to shoot somebody is killing someone with a gun isnt it? I never heard that in France and even in europa... I never heard anything about that... in France we are prefering knives and when ONE child is killed, everybody speak about school security for 2 or 3 weeks. There is no guns control when you enter in a french school. And there is no gun in school -> no school shooting...

[Taurenthefirst]

Originally posted by Foresteer
Well now bin Laden is couragous.. it takes balls to even think of pissing off America (especialy all those rednecks that where up in arms.. i thought we where gonna have a D-Day in afganistan with bass boats as landing craft and hunting rifles and shot guns )

lol those rednecks were about 85% of the people living in about a 100 mile radius of me lol
i wouldnt say we were quite \"up in arms..\" down here,
for about the first month everyone was really rascist,
but after that everything went back to normal.  you know, all of \"them\" (ooo scary) were just like everyone else, and fit in normally.
actually, our student body vice-president at school is a muslim from pakistan, and our president is african american.
most of the changes after bin laden were patriotic, not rascist... for about a year afterwards you\'d better have a flag hanging from your door and a yellow ribon bumper sticker still today, i see more red and white striped flags than i\'d ever seen the rest of my life before 9-11.
i think people really overestimate rascism in america, especially in the south.
(btw, i live in a rural area that is predominately white, not in a big city like ATL where there is even less rascism.)

p.s. just so im clear, i strongly agree with pretty much everything monketh said, and i would have commeted to fken but his use of the language makes my brain want to explode;(

[Black_rose]

Let me try this.

We knew that 9/11 was going to happen! the government knew! congress(mainly republicans) wanted to go to war and start a new crusade. i\'m telling you. we went to war with bin lauden, bombed everything to the ground, and took over. we musta struck a deal because if we wanted to catch him, we would have had him by now. then we go on a nuke trip against sadaam, \"dey \'ave der wepers uh der mass destruction, der nucular (it\'s nuclear jackass bush) der bein liberizers un terist\"
how do we enter the war to free iraq from terrorism? BOMB A HOTEL OF COURSE! i mean really, now it\'s a good thing that we got rid of those nukes huh? good job, wait what? there was no nukes?? well what happened to korea? we just forgot about them didn\'t we? until we \"found evidence of weapons of mass destruction\" what now bush? did you find high levels of methane near a sewage plant? they must be making bombs out of that explosive gas........ stemcell research is the only thing i agree with him on, cuz he wants it.

[fken]

Originally posted by Taurenthefirst
p.s. just so im clear, i strongly agree with pretty much everything monketh said, and i would have commeted to fken but his use of the language makes my brain want to explode;(

just to say I know Im not born in GB or USA but a lot of those who live there forgot to finish their words : \"No entry found for commeted.\"... Thank you Foresteer or I would still think its a word I dunno the meaning

The only thing you seem to learn to me was that you know your government is lying and you are \"patriots\" : it means that once the government lie you take your star sprangled banner and follow the liars!
You are ridiculous! and extremly dangerous. The rest of the world will always keep an eyes on you thinking you are a threat.
Personnaly I think it\'s not you the real threat but your behaviours and the way you have to \"forget\" how people can suffer. In that dicussion Im the only one who is taking care about Africa and south america. I the only one who said beeing taking care about poverty, about hungry, about suffering. You are speaking about economical issues and terrorist attack lol ... You create this terrorist attacks! Im not saying american created it  but you all! Your individualism is a threat for all the humanity.
I dont think Ill continue to speak about that cause I think all has been told. I changed no mind and some people has considerating me as a \"pro bin Laden\" because I said I wont judge him and because I dunno exactly what he want because I never directly heard anything  of what an extremist want. You will say thanks god I never listen to an extremist or I would have been killed! I would answer No No No in history it was never a mistake when someone listen to someone else! You prefer thinking what TV or neighbourghood said to you inspite of thinking by yourself! It\'s what created the worse things in history, the \"mass population effect\" (when frenches killed and made women suffering because they loved a german during the WW2, the anti communism of USA, or the anti wizard hunt, ... each time some groups mayhem alone people\'s body or mind...)
I think you are speaking about things you dunno. You will tell me Im wrong? You will tell me that Im the one who speak about things I dunno? lol I would answer Im the only one who said \"I dunno enough of things to judge because I never listen to everybody (to each groups if you prefer)\".
But I said I respect Bin Laden cause even if he is wrong (he killed innocents and I dont think its a good behaviours), he let his beautiful life to follow his ideas. I respect him because you need to be courageous to choose to let your perfect life to defend your ideas against the rest of the world. I know how the things are when you are opposed to the rest of the mass population ideas... I know it and I suffered because of some bas...ards who think their mind and their ideas are the only one which are allowed. When someone need help I help someone. One day a man of my classroom laugh at m saying \"eh why are you helping them. Do you need to make your good action of the day ? (it was ironic)\". I answered it was in my nature. I cant live if Im not trying to help people to live in a better atmosphere... He still cant understand me. When I pick up the batteries I fund on the pavement people look at me like if I was a beggar. I dont care about their judgement but I find them ridiculous: their earth is suffering and their individualism is better (\"it\'s not my job: Im not paid for that\")... I would like that every people would be responsible and dont try to find ridiculous excuse to explain why they are individual. If you are a bas**rd dont lie: say it, shout it if you want but dont tell to your children that you werent aware of what\'s happen in your country ot that you cannot do anything. Only dumb people will believe in you.

[Taurenthefirst]

im not sure what you just meant fken lol, but dont worry i wasnt insulting you about the language thing, im pretty positive that you speak english way better than i speak whatever your native laguage is (unless that language is spanish, but i dont think so based all your political veiws from comments i can understand )
im guessing probably french, of which i know about 4 words...anyway i guess that was kinda OT so i better put somthing important

Originally posted by Black_rose
Let me try this.

We knew that 9/11 was going to happen! the government knew! congress(mainly republicans) wanted to go to war and start a new crusade. i\'m telling you.

umm im not really sure how you came up with the idea that we KNEW about 9-11 before it happened. some sort of evidence would be nice, cuz ive never heard that.
i mean, no one predicted it publicly did they? other than that unless you work for the government i dont see how you could know whether or not they knew...
oh and please dont show any evidence from the media, and i hope you didnt get this idea from the media, cuz that is one of the most ignorant things som1 can do in america (trust the media)

[fken]

Originally posted by Taurenthefirst
im not sure what you just meant fken lol, but dont worry i wasnt insulting you about the language thing, im pretty positive that you speak english way better than i speak whatever your native laguage is (unless that language is spanish, but i dont think so based all your political veiws from comments i can understand )
im guessing probably french, of which i know about 4 words...anyway i guess that was kinda OT so i better put somthing important

oh sorry I posted it to quickly... I wanted to say that everybody is writing mistakes and it\'s really hard to me to understand what people wanted to say sometimes. For example, Foreester said something and I wasnt able to understand a sentence of one of his post.

Originally posted by Taurenthefirst

Originally posted by Black_rose
Let me try this.

We knew that 9/11 was going to happen! the government knew! congress(mainly republicans) wanted to go to war and start a new crusade. i\'m telling you.

umm im not really sure how you came up with the idea that we KNEW about 9-11 before it happened. some sort of evidence would be nice, cuz ive never heard that.
i mean, no one predicted it publicly did they? other than that unless you work for the government i dont see how you could know whether or not they knew...
oh and please dont show any evidence from the media, and i hope you didnt get this idea from the media, cuz that is one of the most ignorant things som1 can do in america (trust the media)

I heard the same thing. US government knew a terrorist attack was prepared... But nobody spoke to me directly and even if some people would say Im speaking about conspiracy I think sometimes Media are not really objective. But I wont tell you it\'s wrong... I even think it\'s possible...