opinion against savage capitalism

[Monketh]

Originally posted by fken
It would be too hard for me to contradict yourself. If you think there is any kind of honour to answer like you do, especially Monketh, I think it\'s good for you and I wont aswer. I\'ve nothing to get by contradicting you, I will just lost my time by trying to read carefully a text which has nothing to deals with what I said.
So all you said is surely right even if a very majority was absolutly far of what I said. (and believe in me, as Im not native english I must concentrate myself to read and sometimes you are speaking about anything else implicitly trying to contradict what I said... I think Ill think you are not trying to confusing me just to be sure to bore me and win a very useless price...)

Oh, I\'m sorry man.  I always write like that, I like fancy words too much for my own good.

Example: You said capitalism isnt born in United States... but, Monketh, do you really think I care about that? And in fact the great majority of what you said wasnt objective especially when you said something which dont deals with what I said (and moreover after quoting me!). So, as I think you are someone intelligent, I will ask you to read what I wrote again and try to rephrase your answer if what you said dealt really with what I meant.

Okay, I will rephrase all that.

But as you said there is no racism in USA, Im really astonished. Maybe Im wrong but each times someone said something about skin colours in USA... its amazing how its sad! The movies, the news, the history... everything seems to say: in USA, white people and black people arent equal... But if you say the contrary... and as you surely live in USA (is it true?), you will learn me that USA is a superb melting pot with absolutly no racism... a s o.

What I meant is that rascism is rare in the USA.  The vast majority do not care about race now.  We still like rascist jokes, though.  There are economic differences left over from slavery, but those can be removed by good parents and hard work.

Please tell me you were joking when you said USA are good cause they buy iraq\'s oil... tell me you were joking... (I never said it was a good joke off course).

Kind of joking.  We pay a lot of money to the whole middle-east for oil.  They hate us.  You would think if boycotting was common, americans would stop buying from people who did not like them.

\"Ironie\" is a kind of joke. It\'s when you say something which is wrong just to make fun of it. It\'s a way to show you are against it cause what you say is so huge, so incredible that you cannot trust in it.
Example: KKK\'s members are the best friends of black community.

Ok, I guess I read you correctly then.  Here\'s the new word of the day: \"Satirical.\"  Things which are satirical (satires) make a point by irony.

If you say something without sharing the opinion but just want to show how dumb it is you can and if you thing some people could not understand you were laughing you can add: \"je suis ironique l?\"-> \"Im ironic yet!\"

Eh?  \"Je suis ironique l?.\"  I am ironic there.  I am learning french, I\'ll have to remember that one.

I dont read all your post cause here in France its 3 o clock and read something which astonish me (because its far of what I could expect) at 3 o clock is too boring.

Agreed.

I have seen something about French revolution... All you have to know is that franch revolution was a way to manipulate the people to take the power. It\'s how I felt it and how I keep on feeling it. Im not proud of my country of my history (a history with some holes which allow my mind to think my country is a good one, has done good choices, ...)

Yep, the people took power.  It was very bloody at times, though.

Could you say me whats patriotism? I saw this word at the end... its a nice word and as I really think patriotism is nationalism (but nationalism make people think about Nazi so patriotism is better), I think you could show me Im wrong.
But if patriotism is only a way to say you have to protect your country and your government opinion by forgetting to think about the problem, and share your own opinion with the other, please just tell me that and dont keep on replying to this thread cause everything would not be objective...

Patriotism is fighting to save your country from tyranny.
Nationalism is fighting for your country because it is your country.
Hope that helps.


Now, to the matter of Native Americans (a.k.a. indians);
The U.S. Government \"bought\" a lot of land (all that west of itself on the continent) from the French government a couple hundred years ago, it was called the \"Lousiana Purchase.\"
They told the native americans to get off the land, and move to reservations.  Many refused, and when they refused, the army would either attack them directly or else kill their foodsource, the buffalo.
Some native americans tribes would write treaties with the government for safety or land or trade.  Sometimes, the military or other branches of the government (it is made of many people, so it happens a lot) would illegally break the treaty.  Out in the desert, who will stop a rampaging, rascist general?

[Foresteer]

About the racism thing i just meant i was sorry you got picked on (didnt mean i was sorry as contempt or pity. I just meant i was sorry for the sadness that you said you faced :-/ )

Also i dont have to bring a gun INTO school to do a shooting i just have to get NEAR it and kick a door down or shoot a guard (and since guns can shoot half a mile.. yeah Id be preety successful in that right)

Not that I\'d do such a thing naturaly but gun \"control\" never solved anything, ANYBODY can but a gun ANYWHERE regardless of the \"law\" or \"control\" also CRIMINALS admit they DO NOT COMMIT CRIMES WHEN THEY KNOW THERE WILL BE A GUN INVOLVED. They may wield guns when they know the person they are attacking doesnt have one, but rarely will if they know they do (some pople are mentaly sick and will be violent regardless of thier personal safety)

As per countless studies of, about and with criminals.. Gun control isnt the answer quite the opposite giving EVERYBODY guns in the answer. There are \"experimental\" cities in america where guns are not controled registered and no forms of control exist (they also used to be very violent). Now they have had almost NO violent crime as the criminals are scared of dying themselves. So i just say let the numbers speak for themselves, as you cant twist a statistic my friend it has only one meaning.

Also like monketh i speak rather complexly and am sorry ;( (i have to concentrate hard to understand you but i still enjoy talking with you :tup:  )

Well i am utterly exhausted.. im going to bed :O

[Efflixi Aduro]

Who cares? Really, you don\'t live here and we havn\'t invaded you....yet.

Get over it, if its not your contry, why should you care. For all I\'m concernd the only people allowed to be pissed at the US right now and the Afganies and the Iraqies for invading their country, blowing it into bits to find one guy, and (supposedly) leaving.

Now the rest of you can go move to Iraq or Afganistan and then complain.

[fken]

your point of view seems to be still incredibly amazing...

Foresteer spoke about stats... Sweet. Ask to a british how many people died last years in their country because of gun...
less than 100 persons has been shot.
It\'s strange because in GB the policemen dont have any gun...
-------------------------
Monketh are you telling me you that Iraq must thank USA because USA is buying their oil? Everybody in the world know it was the goal of the war : to get the oil of the Iraq unhabitant...
Bush spoke about democraty, about tyranny of Hussein... but in fact if you ask to a Iraq unhabitant what he wants today he will answer you he would come back to the Saddam Hussein time... I think USA just created a new islamist violence pole, In 10 or 20 years I think some terrorist attacks against Europa or USA will be created there... Thank you Bush...
---------------------------
\"Je suis ironique l?.-> I am ironic there.\" is wrong translation
l? could means now too.
---------------------------
Thanks to the french revolution rich people took the power by manipulating the french people. The people doesnt take the power!

Dont tell me Robespierre was a normal france unhabitant...
---------------------------
So Efflixi Aduro said me, if Im not wrong, that as long as USA dont wage a war against france or Europa I have nothing to care about it... Nice so why defending the Poland in 1939? hey Poland it\'s not us. Poland had nothing to deals with France... it\'s like tchekoslovakia... and once France realize it was a mistake... it was too late...
Oh you have not a Tyran like Hitler in your government... you have Bush, you have Schwarzy, you had reagan, you were created a nice cold war by playing with Russia, you wage a war every 3 years to train your new weapon on civilians, a big number of your presidents has been killed, you are buying the pollution right of Africa, you dont want to stop using antipersonal mine, you want that your soldier get immunities, your companies want to control everything especially our privacy, some people in USA thought Saddam Hussein was the one who destruct the twin tower, some people are scared by poverty so they created places like Beverley Hills to feel protected (I said that because you live in LA so I think you must know what Im talking about), and so one...
So off course Europa will follow you blindly...
But dont worry we have our problems too. All what I said was that we will always care about what USA do because USA are ... a threat sometimes.

[Nada]

Originally posted by fken
but in fact if you ask to a Iraq unhabitant what he wants today he will answer you he would come back to the Saddam Hussein time...

I\'m happy to see that you\'ve started learning Arabic. Obviously you would not believe in someone else\'s translation, especially the Western media\'s, would you?

Originally posted by fken
\"Je suis ironique l?.-> I am ironic there.\" is wrong translation
l? could means now too.

I find the translation works fine, but of course I\'m not a linguist.

Originally posted by fken
Thanks to the french revolution rich people took the power by manipulating the french people. The people doesnt take the power!

Oh, come on! Monarchy or democracy, choose whichever you like best. Don\'t tell me Robespierre or modern politicians \"force\" people to accept their ideas (Remember, you were adamant that the French were being manipulated into voting \"yes\", did that happen?). And if ever people are so easily manipulated, well they get the leaders they deserve.

Originally posted by fken
Oh you have not a Tyran like Hitler in your government... you have Bush, you have Schwarzy, you had reagan, you were created a nice cold war by playing with Russia, you wage a war every 3 years to train your new weapon on civilians

Not like Hitler, you say, but you place Bush/Arny/Reagan on the same moral level?
Anyway, can someone explain to me what Arnold (cantspellhisname) has done to be hated as much?  
Weapon practice on civilians? If they want to train their soldiers, there are far more interesting targets don\'t you think?

Originally posted by fken
some people in USA thought Saddam Hussein was the one who destruct the twin tower, some people are scared by poverty so they created places like Beverley Hills to feel protected

For once, I agree with you: the keyword here is \"some\".

[Nada]

Originally posted by fken
but in fact if you ask to a Iraq unhabitant what he wants today he will answer you he would come back to the Saddam Hussein time...

I\'m happy to see that you\'ve started learning Arabic. Obviously you would not believe in someone else\'s translation, especially the Western media\'s, would you?

Originally posted by fken
\"Je suis ironique l?.-> I am ironic there.\" is wrong translation
l? could means now too.

I find the translation works fine, but of course I\'m not a linguist.

Originally posted by fken
Thanks to the french revolution rich people took the power by manipulating the french people. The people doesnt take the power!

Oh, come on! Monarchy or democracy, choose whichever you like best. Don\'t tell me Robespierre or modern politicians \"force\" people to accept their ideas (Remember, you were adamant that the French were being manipulated into voting \"yes\", did that happen?). And if ever people are so easily manipulated, well they get the leaders they deserve.

Originally posted by fken
Oh you have not a Tyran like Hitler in your government... you have Bush, you have Schwarzy, you had reagan, you were created a nice cold war by playing with Russia, you wage a war every 3 years to train your new weapon on civilians

Not like Hitler, you say, but you place Bush/Arny/Reagan on the same moral level?
Anyway, can someone explain to me what Arnold (cantspellhisname) has done to be hated as much?  
Weapon practice on civilians? If they want to train their soldiers, there are far more interesting targets don\'t you think?

Originally posted by fken
some people in USA thought Saddam Hussein was the one who destruct the twin tower, some people are scared by poverty so they created places like Beverley Hills to feel protected

For once, I agree with you: the keyword here is \"some\".

[Taurenthefirst]

Originally posted by fken
your point of view seems to be still incredibly amazing...

Foresteer spoke about stats... Sweet. Ask to a british how many people died last years in their country because of gun...
less than 100 persons has been shot.
It\'s strange because in GB the policemen dont have any gun...
-------------------------

the british are just really great people lol

Monketh are you telling me you that Iraq must thank USA because USA is buying their oil? Everybody in the world know it was the goal of the war : to get the oil of the Iraq unhabitant...
Bush spoke about democraty, about tyranny of Hussein... but in fact if you ask to a Iraq unhabitant what he wants today he will answer you he would come back to the Saddam Hussein time... I think USA just created a new islamist violence pole, In 10 or 20 years I think some terrorist attacks against Europa or USA will be created there... Thank you Bush...

ok what in the world gives you the idea that we caused a war over oil?  the cost of war FAR outweighs the price of oil lol, think about it, use your brain.  plus, there\'s not as much of a shortage of oil as people think, its mostly just gas companies driving up prices.

Thanks to the french revolution rich people took the power by manipulating the french people. The people doesnt take the power!

Dont tell me Robespierre was a normal france unhabitant...

yeah actually he was... he grew up poor, but BECAUSE he worked hard he was able to get a scholarship and go to a university where he bacame a lawyer...

Oh you have not a Tyran like Hitler in your government... you have Bush, you have Schwarzy, you had reagan, you were created a nice cold war by playing with Russia, you wage a war every 3 years to train your new weapon on civilians, a big number of your presidents has been killed, you are buying the pollution right of Africa, you dont want to stop using antipersonal mine, you want that your soldier get immunities, your companies want to control everything especially our privacy, some people in USA thought Saddam Hussein was the one who destruct the twin tower, some people are scared by poverty so they created places like Beverley Hills to feel protected (I said that because you live in LA so I think you must know what Im talking about), and so one...
So off course Europa will follow you blindly...
But dont worry we have our problems too. All what I said was that we will always care about what USA do because USA are ... a threat sometimes.

i agree usa is a threat, that\'s how cool we are lol just kidding

but anyway, why in the world are you listing ronald reagan in a group comparing hitler? yeah the others are definite exagerations, but plenty of people do not like them for various reasons so atleast that makes some since... but reagan??  he was not only one of the most popular presidents america has ever had, but he was one of the most succesful leaders in modern times! first of all, he ENDED the cold war, you put him in there like he started it, btw nobody \"created\" the cold war, it was just a result of the fear of communism and powerful military technology during WWII and afterwards...
and well if \"europa\" will follow us blindly, well their heading down the wrong path for popular culture.. ours sucks(like you said about beverly hills). but economically they would probably be much better off (i\'m no expert of course) and people would probably have more freedom (not that that\'s always a good thing)

and a war every 3 years? big time exageration. the last one ended in \'91 i think, the first gulf war, which was ALSO over suddam hussein (however you spell it) not oil...

oh, btw, iraq SHOULD be thanking us, not because we buy their oil, which has nothing to do with anything, but because we liberated (there\'s a bush word for ya   )
them from the tyranny (and another!) of suddam.  he killed between 100\'s of thousands to millions (know one know how many, but even the lowest estimates are alot) of his own people.   and alot of iraqis are thanking us, well maybe not directly, but haven\'t you ever seen the video where there are hundred\'s of people tearing down the statue of saddam? although that is part of the media distorting everything, i usually trust video\'s, technology hasn\'t really gotten to where you can fake a video of that many people doing something that unique (it\'s difficult to \"add in\" people tearing down that exact same stature without them actually tearing it down, or without it looking atleast a little bit fake...)

[fken]

Originally posted by Nada

Originally posted by fken
but in fact if you ask to a Iraq unhabitant what he wants today he will answer you he would come back to the Saddam Hussein time...

I\'m happy to see that you\'ve started learning Arabic. Obviously you would not believe in someone else\'s translation, especially the Western media\'s, would you?

ok so you are right if I want to follow what I said I must say anything else. But if you really think Im wrong here you must admit you were wrong before... and you will never admit anything...

Originally posted by Nada

Originally posted by fken
\"Je suis ironique l?.-> I am ironic there.\" is wrong translation
l? could means now too.

I find the translation works fine, but of course I\'m not a linguist.

Im not a linguist but I said I think the translation isnt true: it meant \"je suis ironique en ce moment\" So Im ironic now (or yet)!

Originally posted by Nada

Originally posted by fken
Thanks to the french revolution rich people took the power by manipulating the french people. The people doesnt take the power!

Oh, come on! Monarchy or democracy, choose whichever you like best. Don\'t tell me Robespierre or modern politicians \"force\" people to accept their ideas (Remember, you were adamant that the French were being manipulated into voting \"yes\", did that happen?). And if ever people are so easily manipulated, well they get the leaders they deserve.

Dont you think we were manipulated? nice you are alone! even my father which voted yes was saying to me: I vote yes but its... (as you will get it wrongly I dont translate it) ? contre coeur. I know my father and, if he said that, it was not for nothing. Indeed if he voted yes its because he wanted to vote yes... but whats happened simply bored him. And Im able to understand why.

Originally posted by Nada

Originally posted by fken
Oh you have not a Tyran like Hitler in your government... you have Bush, you have Schwarzy, you had reagan, you were created a nice cold war by playing with Russia, you wage a war every 3 years to train your new weapon on civilians

Not like Hitler, you say, but you place Bush/Arny/Reagan on the same moral level?
Anyway, can someone explain to me what Arnold (cantspellhisname) has done to be hated as much?  
Weapon practice on civilians? If they want to train their soldiers, there are far more interesting targets don\'t you think?

if you like him propose him a place as president of France. I wont speak about Schwarzy anymore even if I have arguments.

Originally posted by Nada

Originally posted by fken
some people in USA thought Saddam Hussein was the one who destruct the twin tower, some people are scared by poverty so they created places like Beverley Hills to feel protected

For once, I agree with you: the keyword here is \"some\".

sweet... but SOME IS TOO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


-------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by Taurenthefirst

Originally posted by fken
your point of view seems to be still incredibly amazing...

Foresteer spoke about stats... Sweet. Ask to a british how many people died last years in their country because of gun...
less than 100 persons has been shot.
It\'s strange because in GB the policemen dont have any gun...
-------------------------

the british are just really great people lol

I dont think its the only one reason...

Originally posted by Taurenthefirst

Monketh are you telling me you that Iraq must thank USA because USA is buying their oil? Everybody in the world know it was the goal of the war : to get the oil of the Iraq unhabitant...
Bush spoke about democraty, about tyranny of Hussein... but in fact if you ask to a Iraq unhabitant what he wants today he will answer you he would come back to the Saddam Hussein time... I think USA just created a new islamist violence pole, In 10 or 20 years I think some terrorist attacks against Europa or USA will be created there... Thank you Bush...

ok what in the world gives you the idea that we caused a war over oil?  the cost of war FAR outweighs the price of oil lol, think about it, use your brain.  plus, there\'s not as much of a shortage of oil as people think, its mostly just gas companies driving up prices.

you are right however  oil isnt the only reason I quoted: oil, bombs testing and rebuilding service for american companies. There are others reasons I still dunno and dont want to know in fact...
I wont forget Bush said that France wont get his part of the rebuilding of Iraq... sweet isnt it? It remembers me a piece of cake, doesnt it? You need to learn something now: a government will never wage a war for nothing! There are always something behind the official reasons. Im hurt too when I think about it... but its the truth. The day you will understand that dont tell it to your neighbourghood... or you will realize anything else: human illness is everywhere and nothing is simple. As long as human behaviours seem to be simple its because you are wrong.

Originally posted by Taurenthefirst

Thanks to the french revolution rich people took the power by manipulating the french people. The people doesnt take the power!

Dont tell me Robespierre was a normal france unhabitant...

yeah actually he was... he grew up poor, but BECAUSE he worked hard he was able to get a scholarship and go to a university where he bacame a lawyer...

lol amusing. As you are are lying I wont be nice in my answer. You would have to translate that alone ;-)

\"Sa famille paternelle appartenait ? la noblesse de robe et il a d\'abord exerc? la fonction d\'avocat, comme son p?re et son grand-p?re.\"

Originally posted by Taurenthefirst

Oh you have not a Tyran like Hitler in your government... you have Bush, you have Schwarzy, you had reagan, you were created a nice cold war by playing with Russia, you wage a war every 3 years to train your new weapon on civilians, a big number of your presidents has been killed, you are buying the pollution right of Africa, you dont want to stop using antipersonal mine, you want that your soldier get immunities, your companies want to control everything especially our privacy, some people in USA thought Saddam Hussein was the one who destruct the twin tower, some people are scared by poverty so they created places like Beverley Hills to feel protected (I said that because you live in LA so I think you must know what Im talking about), and so one...
So off course Europa will follow you blindly...
But dont worry we have our problems too. All what I said was that we will always care about what USA do because USA are ... a threat sometimes.

i agree usa is a threat, that\'s how cool we are lol just kidding

but anyway, why in the world are you listing ronald reagan in a group comparing hitler? yeah the others are definite exagerations, but plenty of people do not like them for various reasons so atleast that makes some since... but reagan??  he was not only one of the most popular presidents america has ever had, but he was one of the most succesful leaders in modern times! first of all, he ENDED the cold war, you put him in there like he started it, btw nobody \"created\" the cold war, it was just a result of the fear of communism and powerful military technology during WWII and afterwards...
and well if \"europa\" will follow us blindly, well their heading down the wrong path for popular culture.. ours sucks(like you said about beverly hills). but economically they would probably be much better off (i\'m no expert of course) and people would probably have more freedom (not that that\'s always a good thing)

I dont compare Hitler to Reagan... there was no irony there...
I simply dont like Reagan Policy, like I dont like Bush father policy like I dont like Bush junior policy... and if 1$ cost 0,70? it doesnt mean europa needs your help... in 3 years you lost 30% of your economical power...

Originally posted by Taurenthefirst
and a war every 3 years? big time exageration. the last one ended in \'91 i think, the first gulf war, which was ALSO over suddam hussein (however you spell it) not oil...

you are right you dont really have to wage a war to drop bombs... But you understood me, dont you? USA bombs a country every 2 or 3 years...

Originally posted by Taurenthefirst
oh, btw, iraq SHOULD be thanking us, not because we buy their oil, which has nothing to do with anything, but because we liberated (there\'s a bush word for ya   )
them from the tyranny (and another!) of suddam.  he killed between 100\'s of thousands to millions (know one know how many, but even the lowest estimates are alot) of his own people.   and alot of iraqis are thanking us, well maybe not directly, but haven\'t you ever seen the video where there are hundred\'s of people tearing down the statue of saddam? although that is part of the media distorting everything, i usually trust video\'s, technology hasn\'t really gotten to where you can fake a video of that many people doing something that unique (it\'s difficult to \"add in\" people tearing down that exact same stature without them actually tearing it down, or without it looking atleast a little bit fake...)

I would have a lot of respect for you if you travel to Irak go on the market and say to the iraq citizen what you just said... Dont tell me they arent intelligent enough to understand it would be insulting them! (and insulting another country it\'s what I call a kind of racism)

[Black_rose]

Originally posted by fken
your point of view seems to be still incredibly amazing...

Foresteer spoke about stats... Sweet. Ask to a british how many people died last years in their country because of gun...

well actually it\'s the person behind the gun, and right now, a lot of prejiduce is being upheld in my country, a long with poverty and other homeland issues that no one is addresssing.....
-------------------------

Monketh are you telling me you that Iraq must thank USA because USA is buying their oil? Everybody in the world know it was the goal of the war : to get the oil of the Iraq unhabitant...

i agree
---------------------------

---------------------------

Thanks to the french revolution rich people took the power by manipulating the french people. The people doesnt take the power!

Dont tell me Robespierre was a normal france unhabitant...

Rich people always had power. not just after the french rev.
---------------------------

So Efflixi Aduro said me, if Im not wrong, that as long as USA dont wage a war against france or Europa I have nothing to care about it... Nice so why defending the Poland in 1939? hey Poland it\'s not us. Poland had nothing to deals with France... it\'s like tchekoslovakia... and once France realize it was a mistake... it was too late...

i see your point.

Oh you have not a Tyran like Hitler in your government... you have Bush, you have Schwarzy, you had reagan, you were created a nice cold war by playing with Russia, you wage a war every 3 years to train your new weapon on civilians

nah. we get into wars to cover up homeland issues. like ancient rome did with gladiators.

, a big number of your presidents has been killed, you are buying the pollution right of Africa, you dont want to stop using antipersonal mine, you want that your soldier get immunities,

being serious, i never heard that.
 

your companies want to control everything especially our privacy, some people in USA thought Saddam Hussein was the one who destruct the twin tower, some people are scared by poverty so they created places like Beverley Hills to feel protected (I said that because you live in LA so I think you must know what Im talking about), and so one...
So off course Europa will follow you blindly...

All of that is pretty much true. and bush tricked people into believing it. even though WE KNEW THEY WERE NOT CONTACTING EACHOTHER. they must be working together.

But dont worry we have our problems too. All what I said was that we will always care about what USA do because USA are ... a threat sometimes.

I understand that aswall, but we are a threat more then sometimes.

[fken]

I dunno the real number of assassinated american president. but JFK is one of the most famous, his brother too I remember and some other... JFK its not too far...

all country are allowed to pollute untill a specific level... America reach this level and Bush wanted to buy right to pollute to Africa... (off course it has been seen like an insult by the others countries unhabitants). But Im not sure Bush was the only president who ask for it (maybe it was before bush for the first time... but Bush ask it again off course...)

Im not sure but every countries sign a treaty again anti personal mine using... except China and USA... (Im not sure if there is not another countries... but it\'s what I learnt).

Bush (here I am sure that it was Bush) wants that american soldiers get immunities once they are fighting... off course, in Iraq, we had nothing to reproach to american soldiers

------------------
I said sometimes because I want to say that not everything america does is bad...

[Taurenthefirst]

Originally posted by fken
Dont you think we were manipulated? nice you are alone! even my father which voted yes was saying to me: I vote yes but its... (as you will get it wrongly I dont translate it) ? contre coeur. I know my father and, if he said that, it was not for nothing. Indeed if he voted yes its because he wanted to vote yes... but whats happened simply bored him. And Im able to understand why.

please clarify this statement.  to me it sounds like you were saying your father was part of the french revolution, which cant be true unless he is 200 years old and either you are like 170 years old or he had you fairly late in his life (french revolution ended late 1700\'s to early 1800\'s)
so, i really dont understand what your saying here...

Originally posted by fken
if you like him propose him a place as president of France. I wont speak about Schwarzy anymore even if I have arguments.

I assume you guys are talking about the \"terminator\" here (also known as kindergarten cop, and many others  ) )
i think he is pretty happy with his job in the land of fruits (mostly oranges)  and nuts

Originally posted by fken

Originally posted by Nada

Originally posted by fken
some people in USA thought Saddam Hussein was the one who destruct the twin tower, some people are scared by poverty so they created places like Beverley Hills to feel protected

For once, I agree with you: the keyword here is \"some\".

sweet... but SOME IS TOO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i personally have never ever heard this rumor before till this thread, some im assuming (we know how bad things can turn out when we do that :] ) that not many other people think that, so that \"some\" would be a very small number, mostly stupid people, which every country has

Originally posted by fken

Originally posted by Taurenthefirst

Monketh are you telling me you that Iraq must thank USA because USA is buying their oil? Everybody in the world know it was the goal of the war : to get the oil of the Iraq unhabitant...
Bush spoke about democraty, about tyranny of Hussein... but in fact if you ask to a Iraq unhabitant what he wants today he will answer you he would come back to the Saddam Hussein time... I think USA just created a new islamist violence pole, In 10 or 20 years I think some terrorist attacks against Europa or USA will be created there... Thank you Bush...

ok what in the world gives you the idea that we caused a war over oil?  the cost of war FAR outweighs the price of oil lol, think about it, use your brain.  plus, there\'s not as much of a shortage of oil as people think, its mostly just gas companies driving up prices.

you are right however  oil isnt the only reason I quoted: oil, bombs testing and rebuilding service for american companies. There are others reasons I still dunno and dont want to know in fact...
I wont forget Bush said that France wont get his part of the rebuilding of Iraq... sweet isnt it? It remembers me a piece of cake, doesnt it? You need to learn something now: a government will never wage a war for nothing! There are always something behind the official reasons. Im hurt too when I think about it... but its the truth. The day you will understand that dont tell it to your neighbourghood... or you will realize anything else: human illness is everywhere and nothing is simple. As long as human behaviours seem to be simple its because you are wrong.

Originally posted by Taurenthefirst

ok i dont really understand the cake analoagy, or anything you said after that fken, but about the \"bombs testing and rebuilding service for american companies\":
why would ANYONE need to test bombs on real people unless they were like chemical bombs and they were trying to see how much it tortures people before they die (if you can prove to me that u.s.a. used these types of weapons in the war with iraq than ill....ummm..... well ill do something.......crazy!)
otherwise, there are MANY large military test sights for the amercan amed services (for example, area 51, duh!)
where bombs could (and are) be tested much more effieciently than in the heat of a war... would your rather be able to collect data with state of the are sensors and the most advanced technology in the world while sitting in a laboratory, or while during the middle of the war...
plus, the idea of creating wars for TESTING bombs is purely stupid from a logical standpoint... why do we need to test bombs? to use them in wars... duh.  kinda defeats the purpose doesn\'t it? just imagine
Soldier: this bomb is the only thing keeping us from having to go to all out infantry war, so were gonna send it right over!  Oh yeah, its never been tested before, so let\'s just hope it works!

man i wish people would think sometimes...

Originally posted by fken

Thanks to the french revolution rich people took the power by manipulating the french people. The people doesnt take the power!

Dont tell me Robespierre was a normal france unhabitant...

yeah actually he was... he grew up poor, but BECAUSE he worked hard he was able to get a scholarship and go to a university where he bacame a lawyer...

lol amusing. As you are are lying I wont be nice in my answer. You would have to translate that alone ;-)

that\'s not a lie... do you not know your history? look it up in any text book... encyclapedia(spelling?)
for example, from the yahoo encyclapedia (first one that came up in my search engine)
\"A poor youth, he was enabled to study law in Paris through a scholarship. He won admiration for his abilities, but his austerity and dedication isolated him from easy companionship. Returning to his native Arras, he practiced law and gained some reputation.\"

Originally posted by fken [I/]

Originally posted by Taurenthefirst
and a war every 3 years? big time exageration. the last one ended in \'91 i think, the first gulf war, which was ALSO over suddam hussein (however you spell it) not oil...

you are right you dont really have to wage a war to drop bombs... But you understood me, dont you? USA bombs a country every 2 or 3 years...

ok please tell me the last time usa dropped a bomb (other than the war with iraq or afgahnistan)  
i think if anyone in whatever country your from knows about a bombing the u.s. has done then i think i would know since i have lived here all my life (not that i know everything the american government/military does, i just dont think you have any evidence for this bogus statement
there was somalia, not really sure what happened there or what that was all about, but it was definitley more than 8 years ago (before bush jr.)
and then clinton bombed an asprin factory (God knows why), which would also be more than 8 years ago (clinton=before bush jr., in case you didn\'t know )

really do you have any idea what you are talking about?? nothing i understand from you (btw, your english is improving from what i can tell, either that or im just getting smarter :] ) sites any specific examples or shows any example of anything that happened in real life... it just seems to me that this is what you fantasize (spelling?) america to be... or is that what you are doing?

Originally posted by Taurenthefirst
oh, btw, iraq SHOULD be thanking us, not because we buy their oil, which has nothing to do with anything, but because we liberated (there\'s a bush word for ya   )
them from the tyranny (and another!) of suddam.  he killed between 100\'s of thousands to millions (know one know how many, but even the lowest estimates are alot) of his own people.   and alot of iraqis are thanking us, well maybe not directly, but haven\'t you ever seen the video where there are hundred\'s of people tearing down the statue of saddam? although that is part of the media distorting everything, i usually trust video\'s, technology hasn\'t really gotten to where you can fake a video of that many people doing something that unique (it\'s difficult to \"add in\" people tearing down that exact same stature without them actually tearing it down, or without it looking atleast a little bit fake...)

I would have a lot of respect for you if you travel to Irak go on the market and say to the iraq citizen what you just said... Dont tell me they arent intelligent enough to understand it would be insulting them! (and insulting another country it\'s what I call a kind of racism)

how in the world would that be insulting to them if i said wouldn\'t understand?  do you really expect everyone or even a majority of the people in iraq to speak english? do you expect everyone or a majority of the people in a country to speak more than their native language? how in the world would that be rascist?  that\'s just... well i dont really know what to call it because i dont understand how you came up with that idea.
anyway, back to the point, not everyone in iraq is thanking us, i didn\'t say they were.  i just said many (maybe i should have changed that to some, sorry my mistake) were.
however, just because they aren\'t thanking use doesn\'t mean they liked saddam.  sadly, many people (not just iraqi\'s) hate americans(how suprising, never would have thought that by looking at this thread) and then expect americans to save the world, over and over again(ok, well that only happened twice ), but then since they still hate america ( i don\'t blame them, everyone hates succesful people, companies, sports teams (stupid brazilian soccer team lol ) even countries)
and then they dont show their gratitude...
anyway, that\'s just my 2 cents

@black rose: what was the point of your last thread? everyone could have read almost exactly what you said in fken\'s post. you could have just said \"i agree with fken except for this one part\" much simpler

@fken  also btw, you need to learn when i\'m being sarcastic/making a sad attempt at being funny. for example, the thing about british being nice, that was a joke, even though im sure they are very great people

[fken]

I think you are kidding with a real important subject. Off course, nobody will change anything here. So why not joking...
You joked with french voting about european constitution
You joked with California governator
You joked with French history (I used wikipedia personaly :-D but Im sure an american will know MY country\'s history better than me... off course I knew you were joking)
( http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robespierre ) learn french or ask to a friend ;-)
You joked when I spoke about american who said Saddam Hussein was the one who sent the plain to the tower. But Im not sure you understood what was the threat there... Will I tell you? yeah because Im a nice guy always ready to help : french media shows us Americans who said that. Like you can see american media arent the only one which shows stupid things or tried to endoctrine people... but for sure, you will joke about that subject too by saying american media are everytime objective...
The cake analogy was an implicit image of europa in the 1900s about China... Your behaviours are like the one of europa before the WW1... but the difference is that USA know they cannot colonize. It\'s not usefull anymore. Now its time to colonize the Trade of the World and to exploit poverty...
You asked why dropping bombs would be usefull. I was wondering if you were joking but I concluded you weren\'t... Tell me if Im wrong please. It\'s just because you can test bomb on human bodies and then said \"We created the most powerful bomb of the world\"... off course you wont tell that because your president is here to shout that... It has been tested on human beeings just to prove you were more powerful than other to the rest of the world...
I am sure you wont believe in it because Im sure its still a secret in USA but Hiroshima and Nagazaki was just two tests of the bomb A...
Dont say its wrong dont say it was because you wanted to save the life of your soldiers. Because everyone (the one who learnt history outside the USA) know the reality...

-------------------
otherwise, there are MANY large military test sights for the amercan amed services (for example, area 51, duh!)
-------------------
the famous area51... lol and where are the aliens? Im sure there is nothing really interesting there... maybe new weapons like OICW...
--------------------------------------------------------------
plus, the idea of creating wars for TESTING bombs is purely stupid from a logical standpoint... why do we need to test bombs? to use them in wars... duh.  kinda defeats the purpose doesn\'t it? just imagine
-------------------------------------------------------
I think you must write that to your president... just write that and tell me what would be the answer...
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man i wish people would think sometimes...
-------------------------------------------------------
I wish too I wish too...
I would like a friend of you wrote the following questions on a sheet of paper and ask them to you. You will have to answer as quick as you can with the word you think about. You arent allowed to read it before answering ok? and dont forget to report that to me! ;-)
what do you do in your life?
history?
political?
Highschool?
student?
sciences?
history?
research?
colour?
patriot?
foreigners?
importation?
exportation?
language?
violence?
Whats better : If a real american protestant believer killed an integrist Afghanistan or if the integrist kill a real protestant believer?
energy?
tv?
channel?
fken?
France?
-------------------------------------
be careful there is a trap ;-)
-------------------------------------
how in the world would that be insulting to them if i said wouldn\'t understand?  do you really expect everyone or even a majority of the people in iraq to speak english? do you expect everyone or a majority of the people in a country to speak more than their native language? how in the world would that be rascist?  that\'s just... well i dont really know what to call it because i dont understand how you came up with that idea.
--------------------------------------
now you are insulting your own intelligence lol but its nice to see you are kidding with yourself. I like people who dont think they are serious everytime. It\'s a rare quality! I hope you would keep it.
-------------------------------------------
really do you have any idea what you are talking about?? nothing i understand from you (btw, your english is improving from what i can tell, either that or im just getting smarter ) sites any specific examples or shows any example of anything that happened in real life... it just seems to me that this is what you fantasize (spelling?) america to be... or is that what you are doing?
-----------------------------------------
I like when American save the world :
Japan, China, North Korea, Cuba, Congo, Perou, Laos, Vietnam, Cambodge, Grenada, Libya, El Salvadores, Nicaragua, Panama, Iraq, Somalia, Bosnia, Soudan, Yougoslavia, Afghanistan, Kosovo
(I missed one or two countries) want to thank you.
-> 8 millions death (60 years -> 22 bombed countries ... yeah I missed one)
this! This is a list of countries which are ready to thank you like Iraq has to do... I would like you to realize you have ennemies in each countries of this list. Thanks to your country.

------------
@black rose: what was the point of your last thread? everyone could have read almost exactly what you said in fken\'s post. you could have just said \"i agree with fken except for this one part\" much simpler
------------
I think Black Rose is a guy who think (to quote your expression)... And he isnt proud to be american when he think about what his country did. But I want to advice him that everybody can change everything, you just need to believe in it and do your best to help the others especially the poor people. Im sure you can do something especially in the USA. Dont let your country because of dumb people ;-)
---------------------------
@fken  also btw, you need to learn when i\'m being sarcastic/making a sad attempt at being funny. for example, the thing about british being nice, that was a joke, even though im sure they are very great people
----------------------------
Off course I knew you were joking...  :rolleyes:

[Efflixi Aduro]

Man whats with all this anti-countryism.

When I take over the world Im gonna stick giant motors on all the continents and crash em togeather to make one huge new continent named Ara. And the only country in Ara will be, Ara.

So there goes all the wars in the world except the civil ones.

Now, on a more sirous note, Fken you gotta stop having such typical veiws of the \"american\". I hate the war and I hate Bush, but God bless America because I can say that freely and openly.

Stop steriotyping the American because guess what, as much as you think about this war and are opposed to it, we think about it and oppose it 100 times more because we started it and our men are there dieing for no reason. Not to mention the other countries that also joined in...

[fken]

Originally posted by Efflixi Aduro
Now, on a more sirous note, Fken you gotta stop having such typical veiws of the \"american\". I hate the war and I hate Bush, but God bless America because I can say that freely and openly.

I know that a lot of american dont like Bush... But in fact you vote for him! Ive an american friend who learnt bush reelection here in france. He said \"It\'s a shame for united states\" and even he was too disapointed and said some bad things about USA I dont remember. I like him because he is intelligent and its nice to speak with him because he is logical and dont say he has the best behaviours (he doesnt judge mine I dont judge his behaviours, its perfect).

And in fact Im not really believing in stereotypes... I just read your reactions when I say something to verify the stereotypes... and really no one but Black rose seems to think about what their country is doing. What annoy me is that he/she must feel bad. I know what pessimism is. Im known as a man who dont believe in humanity. I even dont feel really french. I meant I wont be proud because Im french. Why? it would be silly! France is beautiful but a lot of things here arent like I want... And my neighbourghood doesnt look like me... They believe in everything the tv is saying, they like trash tv program. I dont watch tv anymore. I dont need it. And since I dont watch it I react differently. Some choice of my neighbourghood look so illogic sometimes... and some other things looks clearlier. Maybe Im wrong but I think tv controlled my mind sometimes. Now when Im in front of a tv and whatch at the news I realize quickly its not objective. I get every strange phrase like \"now you would see a program which will show you why you will vote yes\". The ads are illogic : some kind of humour. in fact, since I dont watch tv I dont need a new product, I dunno who is the latest new famous in fashion singer, I needed 3 weeks to know a rover was on mars and it wasnt a problem... But there are problems I swear you that if you dont watch your tv you could contradict the mass mind especially about a war in Iraq for example. And some people could look at you strangely (war in Iraq is an example for USA-citizens).

If I speak about my president or prime minister everybody will say \"It\'s a poor lier\" but we vote for him! If you speak about equality there is no problem, there is no more racism but once you say an arabic is better than you people shout its impossible...
Europa is happy to see Africa like it is because, like one of my friend said to me, if Africa had a real chance to trade (Im speaking about fair trade), Africa would be best than Europa thanks to their minerals, oil and other product. Everything is there thats why Europa went there to colonize...

But I didnt want to made stereotype because if you knew me Eflixi you would know I everytime defend the point of view which is undefended.
You tell me Palestinien are the best in the Israel/Palestine conflict I would defend the Israelien. You say the opposite I will defend the others. You would be objective then I would agree.

Here I felt aggressed like if people wanted to be right absolutly. So once someone tell me something subjective, sometimes I use stereotypes to contradict. I am able to fell subjective opinions because it\'s amazingly unlogical for me. And I think it\'s unlogical for you too because I dont feel Im more intelligent than you.

Do you realize each time I was right and demonstrate it the one I contradict never agreed? It\'s amazing. It\'s more amazing when you look someone who contradict you by using your word without getting the meaning of these ones... For example, when Taurenthefirst said it\'s not insult anyone when you say they dont understand english... it made me laugh first but after... I was wondering if he was really kidding... because I said it would be insulting them if you said they cant understand it\'s for their wellness that american went to Iraq. Because they arent babies anymore.

You know, Efflixi, if I was American and if I wanted to defend my country the first thing I would do would be to contradict the one in my side who said silly things. Because it\'s bad for your image and then when you try to say something true you would be sure your argument will be depreciated...

I try to understand people, not especially Americans, but people who  create poverty and suffering... I hoped you would defend your behaviours... you show me what patriotism is... thank you. But I dont think its a good image of America... In Europa it remind us the mistakes of our grand grand grand parents and it\'s not beautiful.

I spoke about this thread to one of my friend (objectively I hope). She wasnt in my mind for what I said about Bin Laden and I was forced to say it with another name because bin laden scare people... Once I explain my point of view (after 15minutes of intensive discussion) she agreed. But she was in my side with what I said about USA... and even she was more cynical... She went to USA and said me how it was. She said me that some streets in Philadelphia are still like in the western (no real pavement). I was astonished (she went to united state maybe 5 years ago)... For my french ideas its amazing to let poor people live in street like that. and even she was more cynical about USA and I wont tell you what she told me because it\'s not my ideas and if you are patriots you really would react badly.

But Efflixi, you spoke about stereotypes but the most of what I said werent stereotypes... Beverley hills exists. the 22 countries were bombed. Nuclear bomb has been tested in Japan. there is racism there (it\'s not only stereotypes a friend told me that, Michael Moore describe it in Bowling for Columbine ;-) ... but here im not objective cause when i watch at BFC I fund it not objective just by looking at the movie...), and so one... because here its 7:15 AM o clock and im tired -> sleep.

[Efflixi Aduro]

Bush is a dumbass and so are a lot of other people in this country but remember that just because bush is a dumbass it doesn\'t mean America is fighting the war.

Yes, poverty exists in the U.S. whou would have thought... WOW, the richest biggest bestes baddest strongest country ever has poor people in it.

Well, guess what. Every country has poor people in it. And your friend didn\'t really go to the best place if she wasn\'t looking for poor people.

Yes, Bverly Hills exists, I live like 30 mins away from it and I might live there if I make good money later if life. But, I mean, people just CHOSE to hate the U.S. without just reasons or support.

Just look at Iran during the Shah revolution. Iran was full of Us military bases and next thing you know, when the new power walks in, 1/2 of Iran hates the US and starts rioting on the streets saying death to the US because we wont let them kill an old man.

Secondly, if I say an arabic is better than me, nobody will care. No one here looks at arabic people as if they are terrorists.

Fken you can\'t really tell me about my own country when you havn\'t even visited. If you ever come to Los Angeles come find my house and I will show you the REAL usa. People are just trying to get through life as you are. No one stares at muslums or anything.

And I think, if anything, I should be critcizing your country and Euroupe.
I mean it, do people walk around saying \"screw the french because they don\'t like us\" here, NO. You know why? Because we are as opposed to this war and bush as you are.  And when somone says freedom toast, people just laugh. Go to a Mac Donalds and oorder a freedom fries and they will look at you like you\'re nuts.

This whole, \"I feel sorry for the U.S. because you voted Bush back in.\" atitude has to change too. Do you think people voted for him just because he supports this war? No. They have their own reasons for voting for him.

And as I said before, why do you ever care about the U.S.? I mean, I don\'t go around saying screw the french or anything.

You do realize how narrow your views are to the US? VERY. All you know about is the war so tell me this.

The Atomic bomb on Japan. We had two choices. Send in our boys to fight the war until we won. Or, drop a bomb and end it in one day and save tens of thousands of lives. So, you tell me. Would it have been the better choice for us to go in, win, but lose 80,000 more men just so we don\'t use the big bad bomb? Yea, I don\'t think so.
The United States has gone into Europe and saved peoples asses so many times but all people care about is bush. I mean it, lets say some guy from mexico suddenly began taking over north and south America and France came in to help. How do you think the attidude in Fracne would be, ys, it would be a \"Why are we helping ze damn Americans.\"

While, if the opposite happend. And The U.S. had to go to war in Euroupe to help france and some other countrys so they wouldn\'t be taken over, how do you think the atitude here would be? Positive. Because if we ever go to Europe and help, it would be a selfless act. And it would be the same if France helped us. They would both be selfless. But, this current war isn\'t. And that\'s why theres protests here, because bush just wants oil.

And theres your difference. If the US fought a selfless war people would support it, just like in WWI and WWII, but, if a country like France or somthing fought a selfless war to help us people would be protesting their asses off their. And THAT is your difference.

Many people don\'t remember the suffering the American people have gone through to heplp other countries. What about Veitnam, or Korea. What did we have to gain it those wars? Nothing.

And yet, one Ideot president gets greedy and goes to war with Iraq for its oil and half of Europe goes anti-american on our asses.