Carkarass

[DaveG]

Originally posted by amogorkon

The server would just have to look at a log of recent advancements,

I dont think there is such a log...

I\'m sure there\'s something like this.  If there isn\'t, it would be very easy to implement.

Originally posted by amogorkon
Then why not loosing hitpoints?

HP is directly determined by the stats, so you\'re just reccomending a different way to loses stats.  

If the characters in PS are going to be as varied as we hope, then you can\'t just hurt one specific thing.  It has to be character specific.  (ex: losing HP would make low HP characters like mages horribly weak)  That\'s why I went with most recently advanced stats.  I\'m not talking about a big loss.  Maybe just 1/4 of the stats gained in the past total hour of gameplay time.  Just stats, not skills; this would require weighting them differently, because some skills would be harder than others to learn.

The loss of some tria and cerain other (non-rare) items should occur on death when the character is killed by a humanoid monster.  (aka, your corpse was looted)  You could then get your stuff back by \"avenging\" your own death.  (or an ally could do so, or just whoever kills the thing first )

[Rilar]

If the characters in PS are going to be as varied as we hope, then you can\'t just hurt one specific thing.

Why not? It is only logic that you loose life when you die. Weak chars wont get much weaker, because they dont have much to loose (because of the percentage). Besides, I dont suspect mages to die more often than melee-fighters...

Maybe just 1/4 of the stats gained in the past total hour of gameplay time.

And what if the char havent gained anything within that time? I would gain much money, train alot in a short time, hide somewhere, go afk in the meantime. After a half an hour I come back and dont loose any skills when I die.

(aka, your corpse was looted) You could then get your stuff back by \"avenging\" your own death.

here is a long thread about that subject  .

[DaveG]

Originally posted by amogorkon

Maybe just 1/4 of the stats gained in the past total hour of gameplay time.

And what if the char havent gained anything within that time? I would gain much money, train alot in a short time, hide somewhere, go afk in the meantime. After a half an hour I come back and dont loose any skills when I die.

I say this again:  You are paranoid...  Granted, though, this is a good thing on this issue.

First of all, the auto-booting of AFKers is already planned.  If you do nothing for 10 min, you\'ll be logged off.  Secondly, we could just make it the past hour of active/training gameplay time.  (Ex: If you didn\'t advance anything in 10 minutes of the past hour, it\'d just go back to 70 minutes to get the full hour.)  Thirdly, someone stupid enough to try and exploit this would be wasting time they could otherwise be using to do something useful.

[Rilar]

I say this again: You are paranoid...

Maybe I should feel honored for that  

First of all, the auto-booting of AFKers is already planned.

Oh? Thats new to me.

If you do nothing for 10 min, you\'ll be logged off.

I (beeing paranoid ^^) am imagining yet the first mod to get around this... Just a little programm which measures the time to 9 min and then simulates the hitting of a key, maybe to walk...

Secondly, we could just make it the past hour of active/training gameplay time.

Thats good... but it doesnt answer my question: how do you explain that in rp?

Thirdly, someone stupid enough to try and exploit this would be wasting time they could otherwise be using to do something useful.

Fools are everywhere...

[DaveG]

Originally posted by amogorkon

Originally posted by DaveG
I say this again: You are paranoid...

Maybe I should feel honored for that  

You\'re welcome.  

Originally posted by amogorkon
I (beeing paranoid ^^) am imagining yet the first mod to get around this... Just a little programm which measures the time to 9 min and then simulates the hitting of a key, maybe to walk...

It will always be possible to make a program to cheat in some way.  All you can really do is prevent cheaters from doing it in-game.  (ex: too flexible macros)  GMs would just have to be on the lookout for this stuff.  You might be able to make an algorithm to detect this sort of thing, but if this ever becomes a problem... the solution is to ban the user.  (not to mention, there would be virtually no benefit to AFKing...)  So, I think this is the point we stop with the devils-advocate-ness.  

Originally posted by amogorkon
Thats good... but it doesnt answer my question: how do you explain that in rp?

How do you explain my strange ability to hide 2 claymores in my pocket...  You can\'t argue for \"realism\" in a game that already has unrealistic parts.  I think what I said up a few posts about death \"injuring\" the person is plenty.  Besides, if we allow easy resurrection (if you can resurrect yourself in any way... it\'s easy) we can make up whatever rules work best.   :rolleyes:

[Rilar]

How do you explain my strange ability to hide 2 claymores in my pocket...  You can\'t argue for \"realism\" in a game that already has unrealistic parts.  I think what I said up a few posts about death \"injuring\" the person is plenty.  Besides, if we allow easy resurrection (if you can resurrect yourself in any way... it\'s easy) we can make up whatever rules work best.   :rolleyes:

Bad argument :-P Its not about \"realism\" in the meaning of beeing similar to the RL, the point is to make the game consistent in itself. The game has to be logical with its own logic. Just like a construct of ideas...

About your idea to lower the skills which have been trained last:
You get hit randomly on different parts of the body. If  the different parts were linked to different stats, the final hit could determine which stat you loose. If you dont want to loose intelligence for example, you have to wear a good helmet. The lost stats could be treated similar to the hitpoints. They also could be restored in the DR by necromants if you are willed to pay for it.

With that we had a starting point for part-related damage and its effects. A heavy hit on the legs could reduce stamina or even endurance/agility for some time.


The thing with the \"blood ritual\" (a similar idea from diablo 1, beta) with which you could exchange hitpoints to mana or the other way round could be realised, would be a nice idea, I think.


amogorkon

[DaveG]

On the subject of \"realism\"... I hate \"magical\" inventories, but as the game is currently set up, they are a necessary evil.  (off topic...)  On making things logical with itself, I agree, but I believe that taking permanent injury upon death is quite plausible.  

The in-game battle system, where you take damage to certain areas, should have a greater effect.  Many games have implemented detailed damage systems, and I think it would work here for both NPC and PC damage.  (ex: hit in legs => slower)  Mapping certain parts of the body to certain stats would make this easier to enact.

I like the idea of buying some stat penalties back while in the DR.  More options is usually a good thing.

[Rilar]

Again a bit more off-topic:

After mapping certain parts of the body to certain stats, the step from general hitpoints to specific hitpoints (for every part a own hp-counter) is not far...

[DaveG]

Originally posted by amogorkon
Again a bit more off-topic:

The original topic of this thread was the carkarass in the Death Realm... we are way off that now...  

Originally posted by amogorkon
After mapping certain parts of the body to certain stats, the step from general hitpoints to specific hitpoints (for every part a own hp-counter) is not far...

True.  HP would be used to decide when you die, and temporary stat hits would be taken depending on which part of the body was damaged.  (only small portion of which would be permanent)

[TiagoTiago]

what about a temporary drain on hp, stamina etc, all stats that would be usefull on a battle, everytime one gets in or out the death realm, so there would be a need to eat, rest, meditate etc b4 going into to battle again? (sorry if someone else already said that in another way, Idid\'nt noticed 8o)

aout the money bats, the money part wasn\'t my idea, but the  idea of diferent stat stealing swarm  monsters seems interesting, perhaps based onwhere you are on the dr there would be different types of swarms, perhaps based on what would be the most important stat for where you would respawn.

[Lordbug]

omg! a guy called Tiago!

----
in case you\'re waiting for me to say anything else... \"podem tirar o cavalinho da chuva\"

[DaveG]

Originally posted by TiagoTiago
what about a temporary drain on hp, stamina etc, all stats that would be usefull on a battle, everytime one gets in or out the death realm, so there would be a need to eat, rest, meditate etc b4 going into to battle again?

This sounds like another good idea, if the need to eat is ever added...  But, at far least I agree one should not be resurrected with full health.

[Rilar]

I agree. I think at this stage it is recommended to get into the DR with 0,1 hp and 0 stamina.
The time eating and resting are implemented, this could be also affected.
A few days before I experienced a little guildwar which was reduced on the spawnpoint. The members spawned with full health and killed the others because they wasnt at full health yet. Then the others respawned and killed the first, and so on. Atm I really would like getting into the DR practically unable to fight. And the DR should be non-pvp zone. Then the dead would have to wait till they are at full health again. In the same time the ones at the spawnpoint would regenerate also. So the forces were equal again at the spawn point. But at his point I would also suggest a random spawn point. It is just ridiculus to see 3 or 4 chars at one spot. I believe it is not really difficult to implement a random spawn point. Just define several (10 maybe) possible spots, connect them to a random generator and the problem of heavy sp-siege would be solved.