Rude players stealing kills

[canyouimagine]

How come players can use magic to steal the kill of a creature when you have aleady started to attack them?

Player: Klyph, keeps using magic to steal my kills when I have aleady started fighting the character.

Is this a bug or am I S.O.L. becuase he knows magic?

[Androgos]

Reported bug, please check the BT before posting

[Kaithro]

Hello, I\'m the \"rude\" player mentioned here.

Klyph basically only \"steals\" kills when he\'s trying to keep a hunting spot to himself and interlopers come along demanding to \"share\", trying to force it down his throat if he refuses.  The one exception I made was when two players were using a tag team to keep a mob to themselves for hours and hours.

That said, there may be a bug here or just a design feature.  I can shed a little more light on this issue.  A plaryer with high agility and high strength can kill steal a mage every time on a mob they can kill in one hit.  That has happened to me.  It takes longer to cast a spell at level 30 in the magic skill than it takes for a fighter to smack a mob.

If I start blasting a mob first with magic, then another player starts hitting it with a weapon, I cannot then start melee combat against it, instead I get a message saying I have to be grouped with that player.  This means I have to nuke it to death to get the kill.  Fighter types exploit this to my expense quite often until they either can or can\'t push me away from the spot.

Also, I have seen where if they manage to pre-empt me by hitting with their weapon I can still get the kill back by nuking with magic, it seems to require that I land at least two nukes on the mob to get the looting rights.

The thing here is, the system is not too bad as it is, the real root cause of the problems we have is that there is not enough of a loot dropping mob population to support the current player population.  So, we end up with situations of contention.

I\'ll be happy to talk to any dev if they want to collect info or debugging information with me.

Regards,
Kaithro

[Kaithro]

Ok, I got into another competitive situation tonight and learned a little more about this.

First, I do not have to hit the mob twice with a spell, just once.  Further, from what I can see it works 100% of the time if I manage to start casting the spell before the opponent starts attacking with their weapon.  Then, if they hit the mob first, they get damage on it, but after the spell actually hits and does damage I end up getting the kill no matter who lands the most damage or the killing blow.

It seems, from that and other experiences, that a spell takes effect as soon as it is started.  The casting delay seems to have more to do with a concentration component to maintain a spell, or maybe just to prevent rapid chain-casting.

I am sharing this info because I don\'t even remember the last time I competed with another caster.  But if someone with level 30 in any Way was to compete with me then we might learn more.  I don\'t know if this is specific to Summon Missile of the Crystal Way or if it is a general thing with magic.

Also, I am less sure that magic itself is bugged and more certain that this is a design feature.  The bug may be in the opponent getting messages that they are hitting the mob when they shouldn\'t be able to.  Or, conversely, magic is bugged, and the spell should not take effect until the casting delay is finished.

Sorry, that was a bit long-winded.
Kaithro

[Kaithro]

Aha!  I found bug-tracker after Androgos mentioned it here.  I posted an update to the bug report there.  So um.. what is this forum for then?

[canyouimagine]

Kaithro are you Klyph? What about when I have it first and you come along and steal it? That is stealing at that point. And until they add more creatures sharing is only a polite thing one could do.

What can one do about players like this?

Originally posted by Kaithro
Hello, I\'m the \"rude\" player mentioned here.

Klyph basically only \"steals\" kills when he\'s trying to keep a hunting spot to himself and interlopers come along demanding to \"share\", trying to force it down his throat if he refuses.  The one exception I made was when two players were using a tag team to keep a mob to themselves for hours and hours.

That said, there may be a bug here or just a design feature.  I can shed a little more light on this issue.  A plaryer with high agility and high strength can kill steal a mage every time on a mob they can kill in one hit.  That has happened to me.  It takes longer to cast a spell at level 30 in the magic skill than it takes for a fighter to smack a mob.

If I start blasting a mob first with magic, then another player starts hitting it with a weapon, I cannot then start melee combat against it, instead I get a message saying I have to be grouped with that player.  This means I have to nuke it to death to get the kill.  Fighter types exploit this to my expense quite often until they either can or can\'t push me away from the spot.

Also, I have seen where if they manage to pre-empt me by hitting with their weapon I can still get the kill back by nuking with magic, it seems to require that I land at least two nukes on the mob to get the looting rights.

The thing here is, the system is not too bad as it is, the real root cause of the problems we have is that there is not enough of a loot dropping mob population to support the current player population.  So, we end up with situations of contention.

I\'ll be happy to talk to any dev if they want to collect info or debugging information with me.

Regards,
Kaithro

[zanzibar]

Klyph, you have absolutely no right to steal kills simply because you \"don\'t feel like sharing\".


Esserfin is another player who\'s really bad for this kind of crap.


If anyone does this to you, report it to the Game Masters by making a petition where you say who\'s doing what to you when where and how.

[Nikodemus]

Why don\'t you both try to find compromise next time you will have problem?

It is all known problems, but like in real life, you can\'t avoid them, you have to learn solving them.

There aren\'t many mages who try to participate with fighters, but when the situation happens and they want to kill the same animal  at the same time there are two options.
1. The mage starts casting spell in the same time as the fighter attacks the mob. He hits it few times before the mage\'s spell successfully hits the mob. In this moment the fighter is helpless and can do nothing. The mage kills the mob with spells and takes the loot.
2. Mage and fighter start in the same way as in option 1. Only this time fighter is skilled enough that he can kill the mob before the mage finis the spell. Fighter wins and takes the loot.

If the fighter isn\'t smart he will think the mage has stolen his mob. Of course he is wrong, but sadly it is hard to explain this to him. He won\'t think that the mage has the same right to the mob as the fighter.
This is how current system works, it isn\'t fair and if mage won\'t be able to claim the monster by his spell, then it will be even worse as pure mage profession won\'t have practical sense.

My conclussion is. You can\'t avoid problems by setting unrealistic bariers like claiming mob by attacking it. The problems will stay as they are in humans nature. By providing players system, where they can decide in natural way how they are going to solve their conflict is better. In the worst cause one will kill the other to take what he think is his. This is how people often solved their problems in the past and still are.

[Pestilence]

stealing kills? hmm

sharing is a must?

Sorry to say but claiming spawnplaces is a comon thing. And I don\'t think there are so few that it is mandatory that people should share.

I think t is the polite thing to do. Specially with the weaker tefu seeing there are only two, but to say it is against the rules to not share.........

Anyhow I think this problem normally occurs when you demand a sharing instead of asking and being polite. I have seen some people and how they react to the situation and can\'t blame other people for not wanting to share with them.

And it\'s not like there are not enough rats or not enough tefusang in the wild and in the other rooms or not rogues and thugs that drop swords. And it\'s not like even rats are less profitable then a shared tefusang.

Anyhow don\'t think this is the right section for this post

[Kaithro]

This is a bug discussion forum, so I am not going to answer to personal concerns.  

My behaviour is changing as I find myself getting more PPs and not enough money to train.  So, I am getting to be more aggressive to get the money I need.  As far as this magic issue goes, it can be considered a feature which can be used by any player (not just me).

Keep in mind that there is no rule against competitive hunting.  I know this because I used to get KS\'d by other players and advisors and GMs told me it was not against the rules.

Perhaps we should be less vocal in our attacks on each other and more vocal on the root cause.  Simply put, right now, mining is a low yield alternative to hunting and there are not enough loot dropping mobs for the player population.  So, there is inevitable contention between players over the limited resources (trias).

Since it would require a lot of coding/debugging/testing to add in more of the crafting skills.  I suggest that we ask for more loot dropping mobs.  And/or the devs could add loot to the mobs that don\'t drop it right now such as boggles (only drop 1-3 tria), fanatics, sewer rogues, most dungeon thugs, clackers, consumers, trebors(sp?), and probably other things too.  I have also noticed that the higher level Tefusangs that give 100% or more exp still drop teeth that are only worth 16 tria.  It seems to me that just a little balancing would help cure a lot of this contention we now find ourselves with.

[Nikodemus]

Every new player who haven\'t played long enough to see everythink starts complaining there is not enough mobs to loot and he want more.
It isn\'t always like that a tought mob will give proportionally good loot. It is probably another theory brought from different game which isn\'t right.
And how can we expect somethink better from a tefusang than a teeth? (we should be able to loot at least 2 teeths because there are always 2 the same teeths considering only these are worth in smithing process and  all other teeths can\'t be used. But that is different story) It doesn\'t matter if a tefusang is weak or strong. It has always only 1 teeth (should have 2?) which can be used because valuable.
Note that when there is more of somethink on the market it is loosing on value.

When you are looking for a tria, don\'t go to forums asking for them. Earn them ingame. But do it if you have good and well thought idea which isnt just another weird thing brough from different game.

[Xordan]

omg people grow up. Nobody can \'claim\' a spawn area for themselves. Everybody has equal right to every spawn area. The rule is; don\'t attack something someone else is already attacking. If there\'s another monster nearby which isn\'t being attacked, then attack that.

[bulbonius]

Im getting really pissed. THis jerk named Proteus Glenn keeps stealing My kills. And He\'s to strong for me to hurt. They said they have the right to hog the spawn cause they were there first. Do you think one of The GM\'s could kick him for a day for stealing kills?

[Drey]

hmm, maybe if you try telling one when he is doing it we can check it out maybe have  some words. banning is a bit extreme no?

[Robinmagus]

Originally posted by bulbonius Im getting really pissed. THis jerk named Proteus Glenn keeps stealing My kills. And He\'s to strong for me to hurt. They said they have the right to hog the spawn cause they were there first. Do you think one of The GM\'s could kick him for a day for stealing kills?

Can you people not talk about something anymore? I agree with Drey. Try informing him of his wrong doing. and then a GM. Dont go \"Ban teh jerk Ban teh Jerk\" on the forums please.

And besides. The rules dev has spoken! Bow kill stealers, bow!