Why I love Linux,.

[Androgos]

Originally posted by ramlambmoo
I dont run a Web Server from my bedroom for my website displaying my wonderfully rendered 3D images while using my dreamcast to run the linux kernel.  If i did, im sure i\'d be very impressed with linux.  The way it is, im not.

Actually....  :rolleyes:

/me whispers \"I do those things except the dreamcast thingy \"

[ramlambmoo]

3.) I rarely have to sign any EULA\'s

4.) The EULA\'s I do have to agree to are designed to protect my rights, not the rights of a large company.  

Hmm, lets look at a sample Linux Software license shall we.  Oh well since GeForce 7800 GTX has been discussed lets see how their linux Software license is designed to protect you, and not the rights of a large company (them).

No Reverse Engineering. Customer may not reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble the SOFTWARE, nor attempt in any other manner to obtain the source code.

All title and copyrights in and to the SOFTWARE (including but not limited to all images, photographs, animations, video, audio, music, text, and other information incorporated into the SOFTWARE), the accompanying printed materials, and any copies of the SOFTWARE, are owned by NVIDIA, or its suppliers. The SOFTWARE is protected by copyright laws and international treaty provisions. Accordingly, Customer is required to treat the SOFTWARE like any other copyrighted material, except as otherwise allowed pursuant to this LICENSE and that it may make one copy of the SOFTWARE solely for backup or archive purposes.

Oh and gotta love this bit of looking out for you:

6.2 No Liability for Consequential Damages. TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, IN NO EVENT SHALL NVIDIA OR ITS SUPPLIERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, INDIRECT, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES WHATSOEVER (INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF BUSINESS PROFITS, BUSINESS INTERRUPTION, LOSS OF BUSINESS INFORMATION, OR ANY OTHER PECUNIARY LOSS) ARISING OUT OF THE USE OF OR INABILITY TO USE THE SOFTWARE, EVEN IF NVIDIA HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.

Wow, thanks nividia for looking out for us, protecting us from evil reverse engineering, and protecting their precious copyright, and making sure they\'re not responsible if anything happens.  Linux Software lincenses are so much better!! [/sarcasm]

Note: I dont really give a fig about software licenses, and i dont think they are any of a consideration in choosing an o/s, or that windows licenses are any better.  I just thought the statement that linux software licenses are looking out for your well being was kinda funny.

/me whispers \"I do those things except the dreamcast thingy \"

And thats why you like linux.. i can understand that.  Oh and the dreamcast thingy is real, i didnt make that up.  I\'ve seen pictures of someone doing it.  People have way too much time on their hands.

[Androgos]

Originally posted by ramlambmoo

No Reverse Engineering. Customer may not reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble the SOFTWARE, nor attempt in any other manner to obtain the source code.

All title and copyrights in and to the SOFTWARE (including but not limited to all images, photographs, animations, video, audio, music, text, and other information incorporated into the SOFTWARE), the accompanying printed materials, and any copies of the SOFTWARE, are owned by NVIDIA, or its suppliers. The SOFTWARE is protected by copyright laws and international treaty provisions. Accordingly, Customer is required to treat the SOFTWARE like any other copyrighted material, except as otherwise allowed pursuant to this LICENSE and that it may make one copy of the SOFTWARE solely for backup or archive purposes.

Oh and gotta love this bit of looking out for you:

6.2 No Liability for Consequential Damages. TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, IN NO EVENT SHALL NVIDIA OR ITS SUPPLIERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, INDIRECT, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES WHATSOEVER (INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF BUSINESS PROFITS, BUSINESS INTERRUPTION, LOSS OF BUSINESS INFORMATION, OR ANY OTHER PECUNIARY LOSS) ARISING OUT OF THE USE OF OR INABILITY TO USE THE SOFTWARE, EVEN IF NVIDIA HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.

Wow, thanks nividia for looking out for us, protecting us from evil reverse engineering, and protecting their precious copyright, and making sure they\'re not responsible if anything happens.  Linux Software lincenses are so much better!! [/sarcasm]

Wierd,  I always thought the windows license said exactly the same thing

[ramlambmoo]

Wierd, I always thought the windows license said exactly the same thing

Yes, try reading my post, thats exactly what i said.  Im just responding to the claim that linux licenses are better.

[Wired_Crawler]

Originally posted by ramlambmoo
Hmm, lets look at a sample Linux Software license shall we.  Oh well since GeForce 7800 GTX has been discussed lets see how their linux Software license is designed to protect you, and not the rights of a large company (them).

Very, very bad example. The license of NVidia software has nothing to do with the GPL license (here is the link to the text of GPL license), which covers the linux kernel and most of the user programs. Linux community doesn\'t like NVidia because of the license You gave as example.
Other good examples of licenses for Open Source software:
LGPL license
BSD license (You will find plenty of links to other licenses there)

[Ralas]

Originally posted by ramlambmoo

What dialog box? Linux on its own has no dialouge boxes, sounds to me like your having a problem with your desktop environment. That is not Linux\'s fault. My window manager (fvwm) has no dialogue boxes, but yeah, no errors.  

Well explorer.exe is just the windows desktop environment too, you know.  While your statement is technically correct, for the user whether the error is in the linux kernel or the interface dosnt make much difference really.  Just the kernel on it\'s own would be rather useless to me, so when i talk about linux i mean the entire thing. I think i was using gnome or something.  

Yeah, gnome kind of sucks.  KDE is better, but it also has some issues.  
The point, I think, is that it is fairly easy to opt out of these big, buggy, bloated all-out Desktop Environments whose basic function is the misuse of resources, in favor of something lighter.  It is true you can get alternate window managers for windows, but not nearly as simple.  (two words in gentoo:  emerge fvwm).

KDE, I should address.  I actually don\'t think I ever got one of those dialogue boxes in all my years of running KDE, or at least it was never KDE\'s fault.  Meaning it did happen a few times, but it was always something stupid that I had done, and it was always something that was easily reperable.  Actually the only one I can think of is when you start kde without a sound module probed, it doesn\'t really like that.  But that\'s easy enough to fix.  My point is that things do go wrong in linux and in its component parts, but it is always the fault of the user, and it is always fairly easy to figure out what is wrong and to fix it.  It is a lot easier to fix a problem in a .conf file then in  a .dll file.  When something goes wrong in windows, you\'re pretty much just screwed in my experience.

@Wired:  This is the real, that other world is the wired, I\'m sure of it.

EDIT: spelling (sigh)

[JellyWerker]

wow, there is so much bigotry here, for both sides. I personally use linux, stopped using windows when I worked all summer for xp, and when I went to install it, the code was used.

    The geforce 7800 has drivers for linux, as nvidia uses a unified architecture, so one driver for all cards, read the f*** up! that isn\'t being a windows user hater, that\'s using my brain.

    And it is obvious that most of you who didn\'t like linux because of dependancy issues when you tried it tried noob distros, ever tried debian? or archlinux? or gentoo? these distros are prettymuch built without dependancies.

    This is turning into a flame war, and it is my guess that it will soon become like the thread about the peta sponsored racoon beating.

Edit: Annah: Have you looked at longhorn lately? Thye have cut out everything worht upgrading for, who want to pay $200+ to find files slightly faster and some new eye candy?

[lynx_lupo]

ooh yeah, the console thing was fun. I remember a video with the that winning music, showing first a console, then zooming on the screen. You could see linux running. And as the cherry, the guy started msoffice on it.  

[khanistine]

Originally posted by JellyWerker
wow, there is so much bigotry here, for both sides. I personally use linux, stopped using windows when I worked all summer for xp, and when I went to install it, the code was used.

    The geforce 7800 has drivers for linux, as nvidia uses a unified architecture, so one driver for all cards, read the f*** up! that isn\'t being a windows user hater, that\'s using my brain.

    And it is obvious that most of you who didn\'t like linux because of dependancy issues when you tried it tried noob distros, ever tried debian? or archlinux? or gentoo? these distros are prettymuch built without dependancies.

    This is turning into a flame war, and it is my guess that it will soon become like the thread about the peta sponsored racoon beating.

Edit: Annah: Have you looked at longhorn lately? Thye have cut out everything worht upgrading for, who want to pay $200+ to find files slightly faster and some new eye candy?

Amen brotha. This says pretty much my thoughts.. Androgos made alot of good points too. Seems alot of these windows users bashing on linux can\'t tell the difference between closed source, open source, GPL vs closed source code liceneses etc. If your gonna bicker about something stupid at least build a decent foundation on which you base your opinions so that we don\'t laugh at you at the start. Gotta get at least halfway thru the arguement, I mean com\'on.

Personally I use linux 99.9% of the time because that\'s what serves me best. Do I hate windows, no. Do I dislike windows because of certain functionality they\'ve put into it, sure. I\'m sure if I had alot of free time I can look thru the linux kernel and find alot of implementations I disagree with there as well.

Sometimes linux is the best tool, sometimes windows is. Sometimes neither are and Solaris, a *bsd, one of the mac os\'s could be, etc, etc... you get my point. Really why bicker over something so silly and in a mmorpg forum of all places, rofl. Where\'s the love? Where\'s the peace? No seriously where is it?

Sorry, had to. Peace be with you my fellow computer users. Now let\'s find something worth arguing about like IE vs Firefox, or red vs blue. How about the color of the sky? I\'m out, gl with this.

[ramlambmoo]

Amen brotha. This says pretty much my thoughts.. Androgos made alot of good points too. Seems alot of these windows users bashing on linux can\'t tell the difference between closed source, open source, GPL vs closed source code liceneses etc. If your gonna bicker about something stupid at least build a decent foundation on which you base your opinions so that we don\'t laugh at you at the start. Gotta get at least halfway thru the arguement, I mean com\'on.

Personally I use linux 99.9% of the time because that\'s what serves me best. Do I hate windows, no. Do I dislike windows because of certain functionality they\'ve put into it, sure. I\'m sure if I had alot of free time I can look thru the linux kernel and find alot of implementations I disagree with there as well.

Sometimes linux is the best tool, sometimes windows is. Sometimes neither are and Solaris, a *bsd, one of the mac os\'s could be, etc, etc... you get my point.  Really why bicker over something so silly and in a mmorpg forum of all places, rofl. Where\'s the love? Where\'s the peace? No seriously where is it?

Sorry, had to.  Peace be with you my fellow computer users. Now let\'s find something worth arguing about like IE vs Firefox, or red vs blue. How about the color of the sky? I\'m out, gl with this.

Ahem?? Some of these windows users bashing linux?? If you\'re referring to me perhaps you might want to give some quotes instead of making unbased claims?  I\'ve been programming for 5 years and i find the claim that i dont know open source from closed source personally insulting.  
If you think this is turning into a flame war, then dont participate.  From my view we\'re just having a discussion about the differences between the o/s because we want to.  We\'re allowed to disagree.  I havnt seen anyone flaming me, and i dont think i\'ve flamed anyone in return.  If you dont like the conversation, dont participate.
Oh and btw, I.E vs firefox is just stupid.  Firefox wins hands down.  

And it is obvious that most of you who didn\'t like linux because of dependancy issues when you tried it tried noob distros, ever tried debian? or archlinux? or gentoo? these distros are prettymuch built without dependancies.

This is turning into a flame war, and it is my guess that it will soon become like the thread about the peta sponsored racoon beating.

Noob distros?  This is the one thing i hate above almost everything else about linux: No matter what distro you use, whenever you talk to a linux user they\'ll tell you its the wrong one.  I have tried debian but it didnt work well for me.  Never tried archlinux and gentoo though.  Personally i dont have the time required to install every single linux distro.  But i mean the fact that you have o rely on knowing with distros are \"noob\" distros and thus choosing other ones is just another reason not to use linux, personaly.

My point is that things do go wrong in linux and in its component parts, but it is always the fault of the user, and it is always fairly easy to figure out what is wrong and to fix it. It is a lot easier to fix a problem in a .conf file then in a .dll file. When something goes wrong in windows, you\'re pretty much just screwed in my experience.  

Yeah, but same for windows.  Most of the errors i get are from me doing something really stupid or from my programming.  Though your point about .dll files is indeed valid.

[Induane]

Admittedly when I first install Linux on a machine I have a long routine I go through to get it just perfect.  In windows I have no such routine but its partially because most of the software i\'d wan\'t isn\'t free or its just not a configurable.  

I tend to

Install Wine, and cedega CVS, download all the backgrounds I can find that I like, install WindowMaker, as I tend to like that one alot, configure KDE or GNOME to look really cool so that when I\'m gone anyone can use my computer with no problems and also go \"Wow!\"  Karamba and Desklets help in this department.  Then I find the WindowMaker theme I like - blue rose personally.  Then I install SDL libraries and OpenAL libraries if not installed.  I\'ve gotten attached to Ubuntu and its good package management but I may try Gentoo soon.  

Then I install all the games that I like to play, Age of Empires II - The Conquerors, Warcraft III, World of Warcraft ---> for my roomate - it performs better in cedega linux than windows, Starcraft, Diablo II, and finally Cube. Then I get the latest nvidia drivers loaded and setup.  Occasionally I play with adding \"allow composite with glx\" so I can do cool composite rendering engine stuff. Then I get firefox updated to the latest binary build so I can get all my nice cool extensions and such, then I am done and I never have to touch the system again.

My windows trend seems to be (partially do to my own fault I\'ll admit)

Install -

Figure out why it halts at loading agp440.sys

recovery console disable agp440 and disable mup

yay - it boots, install 3D driver as it wasn\'t detected.  Use debug to locate what my modem is as my memory can\'t seem to conjur up that data, then install drivers for it just so when I go to hardware manager I don\'t see all those yellow excalmation points.  Figure out what USB adapter controller I have and install the drivers for it as they wern\'t detected either thus limiting me to an old PS2 mouse, then changin from the default blue theme to Olive, adding a different background and installing my games.  Then I install firefox,  Later I wonder why MSN messenger and iexplore.exe are listed as running in the processes tab, hmmm . . . regedit blah blah software--->Microsof-->windows-->current version-->run - then delete everything there.
smae for current user.  
then msconfig
disable all those pesky startup stuff.
install firewall protection
download spybot and adaware
download clamwin
scan scan scan
eliminate all 3 viruses by deleting the dlls and getting fresh ones from dlls.com  allow spybot and adaware to nuke all 15 or so spyware programs that have managed to install themselves already.
Configure firewall so that iexplore can\'t access the internet as just having it running somewhere in the background for no apparant reason makes bad things happen.
take a nap
fresh look all\'s good seems stabile, just don\'t touch anything - games only.
3-4 months.  MSN messenger keeps running despite all efforts to prevent its startup.  Worse it crashes with weird rundll32 errors for no apparant reason and the computer restarts spontaniously.  Oops more services are now causeing the computer to halt.  Disable them from recovery console,

then I give up and reinstall all over again.  I think I\'ll get it all setup and then ghost it to a new spare hard drive, so I can ghost it back when I need to.

Yes, both windows and linux can be a hassle to install, setup, and use.  Windows error reporting isn\'t as helpful for me personally, but maybe someone else can make better sense of it than I.  truthfully the only problems I have stem from abusing administrator privlidges or using unstabile bleeding edge packages.  I can\'t help it I want to try the new features!!!

[Platyna]

Someone has forgot not everyone live in the USA, for example in Poland $100
is that what many people has to survive a month for. Anyway that quote:

Originally written by Annah
I personally am very pleased of my Windows Server 2003 os. It never crashed until now, and I have it for more than one and a half year. Powerful, stable, fast, and yeah, it can compete with any Linux distribution when it comes to \"network/server\" management or security.

Is going to be written down for generations to read in my login fortunes file.
When I have read this to my colleagues at work they had a good laugh, even
if majority of them are Windows users. The truth is no one who is sane will run
a production server on Windows. If we have to run Windows because an
application requires MSSQL and there has to be access to that from eg. the
internet we are connecting it behind a Linux machine, cutting all the ports
except MSSQL one and doing tunnels to it via SSH. So, I would suggest reading
first proofs of concept posted on Bugtraq how silly is all that MS security.
Windows is neat OS...for workstation, for the people who doesn\'t do much
besides running Office or playing games and who has a sysadmin smart
enought to put a masquerade and secure them behind UNIX server.


Regards.

[ramlambmoo]

Someone has forgot not everyone live in the USA, for example in Poland $100 is that what many people has to survive a month for.  

Well i dont live in the U.S, i live in australia.  The CIA world fact book gave poland\'s GDP per capita (purchasing power parity) $12,000 (2004 est.).  That would indicate something like $1000 a month.  But anyway im not an expert on Poland. The point is if you\'re living on $100 a month you\'re not going to buying many Computers.  If you have enough money to buy a computer package than an extra $100 isnt exactly that much money.  Unless you\'re buying an older computer, in which case it would probablly come with an older version of windows or linux.  And, after all that, I am not living in Poland, and i do not rate the ability of said product to be distributed and bought by the lower income earners in a foriegn eurpoean country as very high on my list of considerations when purchasing an O/S.

[Annah]

Originally posted by Platyna
Anyway that quote:

Originally written by Annah
I personally am very pleased of my Windows Server 2003 os. It never crashed until now, and I have it for more than one and a half year. Powerful, stable, fast, and yeah, it can compete with any Linux distribution when it comes to \"network/server\" management or security.

Is going to be written down for generations to read in my login fortunes file.
When I have read this to my colleagues at work they had a good laugh, even
if majority of them are Windows users. The truth is no one who is sane will run
a production server on Windows. If we have to run Windows because an
application requires MSSQL and there has to be access to that from eg. the
internet we are connecting it behind a Linux machine, cutting all the ports
except MSSQL one and doing tunnels to it via SSH. So, I would suggest reading
first proofs of concept posted on Bugtraq how silly is all that MS security.
Windows is neat OS...for workstation, for the people who doesn\'t do much
besides running Office or playing games and who has a sysadmin smart
enought to put a masquerade and secure them behind UNIX server.


Regards.

I still support Windows Server 2003, and my words said towards this os. Besides, competing with something doesn\'t mean it necessary has to be over it. But through this operating system you have to admit that Windows went very close to Linux\' stability and other \"features\".

Also, don\'t talk for something you didn\'t see how it works for yourself. Never trust only in other\'s words.

 

Meh, anyway, is good to know it amused you.

 

[Platyna]

And my words were about that Windows is not capable to be a server. It
doesn\'t matter if it is Windows called XP or Windows called Server, I can put
an Amiga 500 with Workbench and call it Workbench Server as well.
I have Windows Server 2003 at work on one of my workstations, I am using it
when I have to play with MSSQL and Query Analyzer or Crystal Reports and for
workstation it is ok - it not crashes like ME or 98SE, but I wouldn\'t put it on any
machine that actually does something imporant...
XP (and all these \"servers\" which are based on win2k or XP) is surely more
stable, but this is not comparable for Linux because these two systems were
created for completly different purposes; Windows was a neat GUI for DOS
its role was to make easier everyday life of not so computer literate user while
Linux had been created by a bunch of hackers for being a networking system,
later on server system. So XP is very stable while performing tasks Windows
had been created for - running multimedia, programs, games etc. while Linux
performs better at services. Generally multimedia in the past vere offten killing
Linux not because Linux itself but broken modules. So generally Linux\'s new
realm was user programs while Windows\'s it is server programs. We were
once testing IIS on Windows Server 2003 Enterprise Edition vs Apache on
Slackware 9.1...we used a program which generates great HTTP traffic and
loads the HTTP server, commonly used by the admins to test performance
both of the servers had, of course connections limits set on them etc., well IIS
first lagged badly while it came close to its limit and after a while we saw a
nice BSOD while Apache just started to give \"Service unavailable\" errors at
new connections. Also you are forced to use GUI on your Windows machine
which eats your CPU and RAM.
Well it is also connected to \"fast\", Windows has nice and fast GUI, which is
surely comparable to KDE and even a little faster, it executes programs quckly
but it is dying when we come at mutiuser and multitasking land, well Windows
at the beggining were designed to be used by one user, sure it has since like
98 login screens etc. but it doesn\'t really make it multiuser system there
comes security, Windows has primitive permissions and users management,
you can use programs like Windows Password Changer to get admin
password at runtime because it is stored in a binary file writable for all (that\'s
how we are recovering forgotten Windows passwords. ) while Linux uses
process accounting, user and permission management known from UNIX which
is really powerful, simple and fast. Networking in Windows is a great joke,
especially that they are using very offten their own protocols instead using
these commonly used and known, not telling about complying to RFC that are
commonly accepted as proper definitions of Internet standards.


Regards.