Author Topic: Limit FPS: better performance without loss of quality  (Read 1590 times)

Wired_Crawler

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« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2005, 09:21:58 am »
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@Nilrem
Sorry, You are totally wrong. Why ? Because You write about watching TV/monitor picture, not the reality, or the reality lightened by strobe light. Please, first read the articles, which I mentioned.
1. Hummingbirds (wikipedia link) - You can\'t see their wings, because You can\'t see single frames. Retina cells do not send the whole image to the brain simultaneosly at the same moment, so the image is blurred.
2. The monitor - hehe, don\'t You really see the difference, when the refresh rate is 60Hz and 85Hz ? I do. At 60Hz screen blinks. At 75 Hz blinking is still noticeable. Even at 85 Hz You can see flicker when looking at the screen from a distance.
3. Wheels - hehe, try to observe wheels in natural, sun light. I guarantee, You will not see this effect, no matter, how hard You will try. You can only see it on tv/monitor screen or when using strobe light. It is NOT the eye/brain, which slices the reality to frames.

Back to the topic.
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Originally posted by Xayton
Anyway it\'s absurd that the login window, that doesn\'t have any advanced graphic, uses 100% of cpu (still the problem of limiting fps).
Agreed. I haven\'t noticed it until now, it is really crazy (I use Linux). I think it is a bug, not necessarily related to high fps rate. After turning on the driver option \"sync to vblank\" (I get constant 85-90 fps) the cpu usage is still 100% all the time, no matter, how the rendered scene is complicated. It should be posted to bugtracker, I think. It may be CS bug though.
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Originally posted by aarobber
If the canvas is not visible then rendering will not occur.
True. When the planeshift window is completely obscured by other windows, cpu usage drops to 0% (I use Linux)
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Nilrem

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« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2005, 11:30:46 am »
Quote
Originally posted by Wired_Crawler
Off-topic

3. Wheels - hehe, try to observe wheels in natural, sun light. I guarantee, You will not see this effect, no matter, how hard You will try. You can only see it on tv/monitor screen or when using strobe light. It is NOT the eye/brain, which slices the reality to frames.




Aaaghhhhh this is a war!!! ^_^

Agree with you in your 2 reasons given above, it\'s true a camera is used, so you can say i used wrong examples.
But, in the third case, come on! Just look at the wheels of the cars when you\'re in a highway, you\'ll see that; at some moments it will seem to you that the wheel turns backwards.

Anyway, this discussion is pretty complex, because it reffers to how the brain interacts, and that, for sure, it\'s still pretty unknown.
After all, we can all share our thoughts, but, mine is, that the brain can\'t be working \"in real time\" with the images that the eyes are sending it; hey, that\'s a lot of data processing. We can adventure: you say the eye sends data continuously to the brain (because eye, as you say, is analogic) then perhaps the brain, every given amount of time, takes all the images from the \"buffer\" and compones the image as a ponderation of the ones in the buffer; but then it\'s only that image what you see. I keep my theory.

I\'m using a tft monitor, and i changed to 60Hz, i honestly don\'t see the screen blink. I\'m under 75Hz normally and the screen doesn\'t blink to me.

But, again, it\'s a too specialliced conversation; I\'m not the right man. :P

But we\'ve been mixing some concepts, one is the blinking thing, and the other is the feeling of smoothness.
Some of the links given, threat the human eye as the top of the top, well, we\'ve to be proud of what we have, but, for sure, we don\'t distinguish ourselves because of our eye capability, but for our brain; yes, although some discussions might make think the countrary :D
There are lots of things we can\'t see, but we know that exist (i think it\'s called infrared and ultraviolet, so we only have a piece of visible spectrum)

That reminds me of sound, it\'s said that we can hear from 20Hz-20KHz, in fact that\'s what CD uses, it records the information at 40KHz (well, it\'s a number beyond that to make it hard to copy) and we really enjoy the experience of a CD, at least, I don\'t hear anything missing. Of course there are the ones that buy DVD-Audios, and expensive speakers that claim to go far beyond, but, honestly noone hears a tone at 30KHz. Perhaps not even at 20KHz ;)

Again, the topic is very interesting imo, but still too complex, at least, for me, as to claim for a big truth.
Anyway, there\'s a sentence you said, and yes, this is almost looking too at the word you said, but, well i feel I\'ve too (*evil face*) \"Retina cells don\'t send the whole image at the brain simultaneously at the same moment\"
Well, in that sentence there\'s implied the meaning of discrete=digital, if they don\'t send it at the same time, that means that there are fractions of time, where some of them are inactive, that is, not capturing, so then, it destroys the analogic term.

But then, back to the topic, now the server is running again :P see you in game, it seems noone\'s really interested in this ;)

TOPIC:

Verrliit, you can submit that petition to the bugtracker whenever you want, after all, Androgos seemed to want that petition handled by himself.
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Wired_Crawler

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« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2005, 01:10:18 pm »
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Originally posted by Nilrem
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Originally posted by Wired_Crawler
Off-topic

3. Wheels - hehe, try to observe wheels in natural, sun light. I guarantee, You will not see this effect, no matter, how hard You will try. You can only see it on tv/monitor screen or when using strobe light. It is NOT the eye/brain, which slices the reality to frames.

Aaaghhhhh this is a war!!! ^_^
No, it is not!! It is discussion (very interesting topic for Hydlaa Plaza imo). To make some things clear: the scientists do not know ALL about eyes and seeing, so the statements I make are based only on most reliable knowledge atm.
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Agree with you in your 2 reasons given above, it\'s true a camera is used, so you can say i used wrong examples.
But, in the third case, come on! Just look at the wheels of the cars when you\'re in a highway, you\'ll see that; at some moments it will seem to you that the wheel turns backwards.
Belive me, I tried it many times, as a child, and later, no luck. Well, it is possible, if a highway is lit by artificial light (those big lanterns). Or if the car has a neon lamp under the floor :) There are other explanations. The eye ball makes very small, quick moves all the time. If the  eye moves in the direction in which the wheel rotates, you can have an impression, that it stops for a short moment. Also, those pretty rims can reflect sunlight and produce some kind of strobe effect, when the angle, at which light reflects, changes (for example you drive faster or slower then other car).
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Anyway, this discussion is pretty complex, because it reffers to how the brain interacts, and that, for sure, it\'s still pretty unknown.
Yes, that\'s true. Some eye-specialists say, that nobody knows, how the world looks like, and that every person sees the world in different way.
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After all, we can all share our thoughts, but, mine is, that the brain can\'t be working \"in real time\" with the images that the eyes are sending it; hey, that\'s a lot of data processing.
Of course! The speed of chemical reactions is limited, but...
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We can adventure: you say the eye sends data continuously to the brain (because eye, as you say, is analogic) then perhaps the brain, every given amount of time, takes all the images from the \"buffer\" and compones the image as a ponderation of the ones in the buffer; but then it\'s only that image what you see. I keep my theory.
...no.  There is no clock, like in computers, which forces the brain to take snapshot of the image.
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I\'m using a tft monitor, and i changed to 60Hz, i honestly don\'t see the screen blink. I\'m under 75Hz normally and the screen doesn\'t blink to me.
Argh. I was writing about CRT monitors. LCD displays work  differently.
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But, again, it\'s a too specialliced conversation; I\'m not the right man. :P
Well, You have opportunity to wider Your knowledge and beat me on this field :))
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That reminds me of sound, it\'s said that we can hear from 20Hz-20KHz, in fact that\'s what CD uses, it records the information at 40KHz ...
Actually, it is 48kHz and it is sampling rate, not the maximum frequency of the sound. It means, 48000 sound samples are taken every second. You need at least 2 samples to hear sound (because we hear changes in the air preasure) so the maximum sound frequency is about 20kHz.
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Anyway, there\'s a sentence you said, and yes, this is almost looking too at the word you said, but, well i feel I\'ve too (*evil face*) \"Retina cells don\'t send the whole image at the brain simultaneously at the same moment\"
Well, in that sentence there\'s implied the meaning of discrete=digital, if they don\'t send it at the same time, that means that there are fractions of time, where some of them are inactive, that is, not capturing, so then, it destroys the analogic term.
Now we talk about single cells. Well, a single cell can not work continuosly, because it works on chemical reactions basis. It needs to \"regenerate\" after sending signal to the brain. But the eye as a whole - it hasn\'t defined active/inactive periods (well, maybe blinks of eyelids).
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But then, back to the topic, now the server is running again :P see you in game, it seems noone\'s really interested in this ;)
Oh, they are, I\'m sure. They simply don\'t know, what to write... ;) See you :)

Sorry, no on-topic part this time. Beat me.

EDIT: probably i did not understand You correctly in the part about sound. Let\'s leave it, and let my reply be simply an information for readers.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2005, 01:18:06 pm by Wired_Crawler »
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