News on next update

[Maverik]

For real just stop argueing about this, just let it go.

[pigottsm]

how did i miss the government? thanks for filling me in

what i was saying is the guild should pay for the house, not the members, they can hold fundraising hunts and stuff, where all proceeds go to the guild, or offer their services for people in exchange for tria, such as their smithing skills. etc, they don\'t have to charge their members

[Maverik]

Thats an excellent idea, but donations are always welcome .

[Seytra]

@ fken: I am perfectly aware that you called me extremist three times. :rolleyes: However I was saying that it was unjustified in two cases, thereby implying that the third case might be justified.

As for your interpretation of what \"extremist\"  means: this is obviously flawed, to put it mildly. An extremist has extreme views (edit: like \"black and white with no shades inbetween\" /edit), not views on things that don\'t concern them which, on top of it, is something you cannot even know of me.

Also, what makes you think that the mere fact that you are leading a guild makes you any more qualified to comment on it than anyone else? How dare you assume that I necessarily have no idea about it or that it does not concern me for the mere fact that you know of no guild I am in or leading?

In fact, what you are saying is that you don\'t want any restriction for guilds because you fear that your guild might not be feasible anymore. In order to reach that goal, you completely and utterly ignore the negative consequences that not having restrictions has. This is quite irresponsible of you, and this is despisable IMNSHO. :tdown:

Yes, I am proposing to take some freedoms away: the freedom to abuse the game by making pointless guilds. Guess what? The game already has rules, like any other game, yet you don\'t oppose these, while they surely also take freedoms away! And why is that? Because without rules, it would be impossible to actually define what the game is! And another thing that might not have crossed your mind yet: the fact that there are myriads of pointless, soon dead or otherwise unacceptible guilds proves that there needs to be some rule to reduce that, because obviously self-management doesn\'t work (duh, we have more than 10 people, of course it doesn\'t work!).

To say that everything must be allowed just because then everyone has absolute \"freedom\" is idiocy IMO. Edit: Oh, and it is an extremist view. /Edit

Not to mention that guilds naturally affect everyone, not just people in other guilds. They affect me by appearing in RP, and by appearing on the screen, so don\'t tell me they don\'t affect me.

Edit: As for Robin Hood: This hardly is a guild. But yes, they were forced to pay. Not by money, but by service. They provided the ganag with supplies, for example, and manpower, and those were even recurring fees, contrary to the one-time registration fee!

[pigottsm]

let it go, let\'s discuss something else

[fken]

@pigottsm: i dont want to change the subject now


@Seytra:

As for your interpretation of what \"extremist\" means: this is obviously flawed, to put it mildly. An extremist has extreme views (edit: like \"black and white with no shades inbetween\" /edit), not views on things that don\'t concern them which, on top of it, is something you cannot even know of me.

I dont said it was my definition of extremism: I just said I find your behaviour extremist

Also, what makes you think that the mere fact that you are leading a guild makes you any more qualified to comment on it than anyone else? How dare you assume that I necessarily have no idea about it or that it does not concern me for the mere fact that you know of no guild I am in or leading?

I never said that / never even thought that
Ive no clue of your guildss name and it\'s not concerning the subject. I spoke about my guild to Xordan because, my guild is a little old guild (in 2-3 monthes we will have our birthday!).
Anyway, guild leader or not, if playing ps interfers with my irl life too much I\'ll have to disband or let ps down.
So dont interprete my arguments in the wrong way...

In fact, what you are saying is that you don\'t want any restriction for guilds because you fear that your guild might not be feasible anymore. In order to reach that goal, you completely and utterly ignore the negative consequences that not having restrictions has. This is quite irresponsible of you, and this is despisable

I never said that / never even thought that
And if it\'s impossible to keep my guild I would disband (after some monthes of work like website programmation and so one...)

IMNSHO

Translation required!

Yes, I am proposing to take some freedoms away: the freedom to abuse the game by making pointless guilds. Guess what? The game already has rules, like any other game, yet you don\'t oppose these, while they surely also take freedoms away! And why is that? Because without rules, it would be impossible to actually define what the game is! And another thing that might not have crossed your mind yet: the fact that there are myriads of pointless, soon dead or otherwise unacceptible guilds proves that there needs to be some rule to reduce that, because obviously self-management doesn\'t work.

I know the rules. I already had that kind of discussion and even I will tell you a secret I was defending your point of view... but really now Im really wondering why people would have to wage a war to that pointless guild creations. Do you think a pointless guild will have a chance   in comparaison with a guild which has a house and 3pterausors off course its a kind of fee which allow people to show to the others they have a guild! but it\'s not a real restriction! like yours...

One question: how about others languages guilds? The main problem I meet on internet with american or english people is that they often forget their language isnt the only one of the Earth. if a serbian come to Yliakum and try to create a real guild under ps but only have 6 members for now... if there were a retrictions like having 10members minimum, it would be impossible to create the guild even if the serbian guild leader would find the 4 other members in the next 2 or 3 monthes... and 2 or 3 mothes after... where are the first 6 others members?
I know that especially because my guild is a french guild of 14members. I dont want to accept everyone without knowing them because I personaly respect the ps rules and I know I must represent my members and be responsible of them... Now you are right I quote my guildleading experience in example

(duh, we have more than 10 people, of course it doesn\'t work!)

is it the explorers guild which said there were only 9 places max in their guild-like groups? (not sure... but it was an old guild for sure)

To say that everything must be allowed just because then everyone has absolute \"freedom\" is idiocy IMO. Edit: Oh, and it is an extremist view. /Edit

That idea is an anarchical idea... not mine sorry. Dont go to the ... extrem  

Not to mention that guilds naturally affect everyone, not just people in other guilds. They affect me by appearing in RP, and by appearing on the screen, so don\'t tell me they don\'t affect me.

wahou !!! but why are you affected??? eh! if you look a guy who love another guy, would you feel affected?? if you look a guy who buy a better computer than yours, would you feel affected?? if your neighbourg fu ck with another girl than his wife, would you feel affected? if your neighbourg choose to live during the night without annoying you, would you feel affected? If you are affected by things that dont concern you it\'s maybe the day to look for a psy...

Edit: As for Robin Hood: This hardly is a guild. But yes, they were forced to pay. Not by money, but by service.

With that, Im ok! And it\'s normal. In a group if someone dont work the others would let him down.
But retrning to the case of Robin Hood, if someone e\'xternal would have been there to say \"eh! Brother Tuck isnt prductive enough he must be banned!\" Im sure the entire guild would have find another guy to steal

So I think everythings will be more realistic thanks to the guildhouses... and if you are annoyed to rping my advice is the following : option -> dont display guildname... because Im sorry but even if MornGlawar is the guildleader of Edhelgarth, It\'s not written on his face so if you wanna be rp, be rp entirely and dont display the guildname : simply ask it like a good roleplayer !

[neme5i5]

If so then let\'s keep it in the game. No more web page/ outside rule impacting formation?

[fken]

thank you neme5i5! I forgot one point, the one which is the biggest problem of the psointless guild: they have no website or useless one : the new members understand easily that their guild isnt very very good and lt it to go in the more official ones... so it\'s something important irl. And with the houses it will be more important because houses are irl.

[DaveG]

/me just realized that I\'m the only one who has something to do during the day...  :rolleyes:

I agree with Seytra on the subject of guild fees.  There are too many idiot guilds, and too many guilds, period.  A creation fee is desperately needed.  Just 1000 tria or so would be fine.  Additional, there should be a member minimum of 5 to 10 people.  Any fewer for more than a week, and the guild is automatically disbanded.  After that, I think there should be a game-play time requirement.  If too many of the members go inactive, the guild is automatically disbanded.  Manual disbanding would refund the fee, but not imploding due to members quiting PS.  (just kick inactive out of the guild)

Dues should be an option to build up guild funds, but not to pay to the government.

[Seytra]

Originally posted by fken
I dont said it was my definition of extremism: I just said I find your behaviour extremist

I see.

Originally posted by fken
Anyway, guild leader or not, if playing ps interfers with my irl life too much I\'ll have to disband or let ps down.
So dont interprete my arguments in the wrong way...

So you were saying that maintaining a guild must not require a tremendous lot of work besides the actual guild matters? Geez, I obviously completely misunderstood your intentions, then, sorry! Obviously I agree in this case. A one-time effort would be bearable IMO, though.

Originally posted by fken

IMNSHO

Translation required!

It\'s a common internet acronym and stands for \"In My Not So Humble Opinion\".

Originally posted by fken
One question: how about others languages guilds? The main problem I meet on internet with american or english people is that they often forget their language isnt the only one of the Earth. if a serbian come to Yliakum and try to create a real guild under ps but only have 6 members for now... if there were a retrictions like having 10members minimum, it would be impossible to create the guild even if the serbian guild leader would find the 4 other members in the next 2 or 3 monthes... and 2 or 3 mothes after... where are the first 6 others members?
I know that especially because my guild is a french guild of 14members. I dont want to accept everyone without knowing them because I personaly respect the ps rules and I know I must represent my members and be responsible of them...

My opinion on language-specific guilds is that they should not exist, because if they are based on language they are OOC. If they are not based on language, then there is no reason to have a non-english guild at all. The official language of PS is english, and thus every guild must be accessible for someone who speaks english. Otherwise it would encourage separation and thus fragmentation of the community, which is opposed to the concept of having one single PS universe.
However, I agree that if you don\'t speak english well it is very demanding and therefore a guild in your native language can be helpful, which probably is why it has been said that guild internal chat, etc. may be non-english.
I agree that there would be not too much of an incentive for players who don\'t speak that non-english language to join the guild, so it\'s a double-edged sword.

Originally posted by fken
Now you are right I quote my guildleading experience in example

Which is quite acceptable in this case.

Originally posted by fken

(duh, we have more than 10 people, of course it doesn\'t work!)

is it the explorers guild which said there were only 9 places max in their guild-like groups? (not sure... but it was an old guild for sure)

I don\'t know, but if, it seems outdated, seeing that some of their folds have way more members.

Originally posted by fken
wahou !!! but why are you affected??? eh! if you look a guy who love another guy, would you feel affected?? if you look a guy who buy a better computer than yours, would you feel affected?? if your neighbourg fu ck with another girl than his wife, would you feel affected? if your neighbourg choose to live during the night without annoying you, would you feel affected? If you are affected by things that dont concern you it\'s maybe the day to look for a psy...

It affects me by
- pointless guildnames that I see. Turning them off would solve that, yes.
- invite spam I receive.
- less than pristine newbies being accepted and instantly equipped with weapons and whatnot, then proceeding to create challenge spam and fight clutter or other annoying behaviour (like overrunning spawn places and trying to KS everyone away, though this was an extreme incident).
- RP, though by far less often. Basically if some newbie guild decides to brag about their guild in something that could be regarded as RP.

Yes, it is not the worst problem, but it still is one. And if it can be solved, than this is good, no?

Originally posted by fken
So I think everythings will be more realistic thanks to the guildhouses... and if you are annoyed to rping my advice is the following : option -> dont display guildname... because Im sorry but even if MornGlawar is the guildleader of Edhelgarth, It\'s not written on his face so if you wanna be rp, be rp entirely and dont display the guildname : simply ask it like a good roleplayer !

As I have acknowledged above this is possible but doesn\'t solve all problems. Also, I have gotten accustomed to the idea of \"guild markings\". Basically I RP that I don\'t know the guild name, but I recognise markings people wear. I\'m not sure if that was done in medieval times, too, but it sounds reasonable, especially considering that secret guilds don\'t show, which resembles the lack of markings quite nicely.

I don\'t RP everyone wearing name badges, though. That is used to distinguish the yliaki since fine-grained customisation isn\'t feasible yet.

@ DaveG: I don\'t really like the automatism you propose. Too many things may happen IRL that can take a great number of players offline for quite some time, like exam time, etc.. And if a decent guild dies, then this is not a problem since until that time it has been decent and afterwards it just doesn\'t show anymore. The problem is the number of pointless guilds, not the number of dying decent ones. After a pointless guild has died, it isn\'t a problem anymore.

Edit: After, say, 6 months of no member activity of a guild it may of course be automatically deleted. /Edit

This is why I am more in favor of a high startup fee than of recurring fees or other automation.

Yet, kicking inactive members is obviously something a decent guild will need to do, but this is something that should not be automated.

[neme5i5]

I don\'t like auto booting either, and I won\'t do it to others. If a big job comes up at work, or finals I could be out for a month or more. I suspect others will agree. Membership is a matter for it\'s members, and not you. If it\'s your guild great, then that\'s YOUR policy. Don\'t force everyone into your managment style.

[pigottsm]

okay, maybe i\'m not the first to notice this, but, here goes

at http://laanx.fragnetics.com/ it says the server is backonline underneath the graphs, and that we nead to run teh updater, but this doesn\'t work

[Easton]

check the date.. thats all i will say...

-Easton

[Darkhack]

pigottsm, look at the date.  That was May 18th.  That was a totally different update.

[pigottsm]

*slaps himself*

okay sorry for that