Originally posted by Seytra
Originally posted by jorrit
Perhaps but Seytra seemed to suggest that gaining power is inherently bad. No matter how it was done. i.e. the suggestion was even to do a full wipe very three months or so.
Probably I have failed to express myself clearly, then. I did not intent to suggest that gaining power is always bad. I was saying that it most often is done without RP reason, RP background, RP justification; in summary: more often than not, levelling and RP are two completely separate things.
Yes, people will argue that they \"RP someone who only wants to gain power, by whatever means\", or that they \"PL in an RP way\". Sadly, this way to paper over their uncaringness for RP becomes obvious when you try to actually RP with them, and also when you witness that the non stat-driven factors that usually are involved in gaining power, namely social interaction, are completely absent from their so called \"RP\".
I agree that there are those that don\'t care about actually interacting with people, and resort to mindless PLing only. By and large, these people don\'t stay around forever, so they\'re only a minor annoyance. The problem is not that these people exist, that they are here, but that PS has a system that encourages them. The lack of quests and the braindead NPC AI makes PLing too tempting.
Originally posted by Seytra
So what makes that so bad, as RPers can simply ignore them, then?
1) RPers cannot simply ignore them. They are obviously the ones who camp all MOBs, so that when an RPer needs to level they will have to put up with greedy PLers and beg them to let them have a kill or two.
As far as I\'m concerned, the bulk of the solution to this problem is answered in
this thread here.Originally posted by Seytra
2) How do PLers show off? Exactly, by using their pretty stats. Even if they don\'t start griefing, they will and do battle among themselves or walk around challenging everything that moves or talks or somewhat remotely looks like a player. Therefore, they disrupt the RP by challenge spam and / or by cluttering up the scenery and chat window with their battling.
You think that those with high stats automatically evil or something? Stats and skills are part of the game. Granted, they don\'t work as well as one would like yet. The solution to this has been suggested many times, and is to simply ban dueling in the plaza and make a special place for it in the arena.
Originally posted by Seytra
3) A PL is never going to talk appropriately. They can\'t be bothered to designate their OOC talk. They don\'t even understand nor care what that means.
So yes, PLs do detract from the RP experience.
First of all, the whole (OOC)-ness is not that obvious to someone new. Secondly, while I do use the parens for quick OOC chat and I agree that in RP situations it is needed, it quickly gets excessive. Often a group of people hovering near Harquist is having one massive OOC conversation, and parening everything just gets stupid. Obsessively parening everything is overkill; just talk.
About the systematic wipe idea: I agree that occasional wipes are needed to implement features. Not to intentionally kill levels. You should not be trying to cancel out the game itself. Make the game work idealy, don\'t hack it by frying things.
Originally posted by Seytra
Grinding sword, armor and HP up to max in order to be able to provide quest rewards is, obviosuly, pure nonsense. By the time you reach these stats, you could have rewarded hundreds of quests.
No. First of all, maxing out sword and armor takes almost no time. PS, as it is before the wipe, has logarithmic skill progression. You advance relatively fast, then after a certain point it gets insanely harder to progress (stats are more expensive). Secondly, have you ever tried to attack a monster with crap stats?... Doesn\'t work does it? If you want to actually use the game at all, like say, going on a quest in monster infested areas, you need to be able to actually kill them without dying. To play PS you need to gain these stats. And ONLY someone who has high stats can afford to sponsor quests, because it is the only way to get money.
Originally posted by Seytra
While I agree that there needs to be a balance between RP and levelling, I maintain that powerlevelling has, or rather should have, no place in PS, and most definitely PL must not be catered to!
I think a missunderstanding is in place, here. I and the devs want a noticable skill/stat system, and to have it progress naturally as you play the game. Some training can be IC and is fine. We, however, don\'t want levels to be the only part of the game.
Originally posted by Phinehas
Personally my belief is that levelling should be done in cooperation with RP.
Yes. BALANCE.
@Seytra: Your stance on these issues suggests that you don\'t believe the game should even have stats/skills in it. The solution to these issues is to fix the problems, not throw half the game. The game is intended to be a cohesive RP world, which requires skills/stats to allow the characters to progress and interact in an immersive way. This is what the devs are making. (having nothing to do with jorrit\'s comments; just look at the game itself) While there are admittedly some abuses, the solution is to fix them, and not just fry things.
There are 2 poles to this issue: to full RP with no levels, and to full PL with no interaction. Both sides are crap. Please people, meet me in the middle here... 
