Author Topic: Hate to be the bearer of bad news...  (Read 4255 times)

Kias

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« Reply #30 on: August 12, 2005, 12:55:55 pm »
The big problem I have with OpenGL on this Vista thing is that if Microsoft was to make DirectX way easier to work with that OpenGL for developers then the number of games ported to Macs would get lower than they already are. Annoying to say the least.

I\'ll wait and see how things fan out but from Microsoft\'s past record of keeping things to themselves and excluding anyone else, I\'m not holding my breath :|

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leji

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« Reply #31 on: August 12, 2005, 02:30:11 pm »
If that\'s really true, they could probably be sued for abusing their trust... hopefully they\'d lost, the good point is that it would probably unite all M$-alternatives communities
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wertigon

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« Reply #32 on: August 14, 2005, 07:35:23 pm »
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Originally posted by leji
If that\'s really true, they could probably be sued for abusing their trust... hopefully they\'d lost, the good point is that it would probably unite all M$-alternatives communities


Don\'t count on it, though... The only lawsuit they ever lost against antitrust issues was the one with EU about Windows Media Player... And even on that one, they still got away with barely a scratch. :(
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fken

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« Reply #33 on: August 14, 2005, 08:53:15 pm »
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Originally posted by dfryer
If worst comes to worst, someone will write a D3D renderer for CS, and our side of the problem will be solved.


are you kidding ????????

I am not Jesus : if someone hit me I wont let him hitting me again...

nobody has to accept MS acts and if ps works only under Windows I hope there will be a correct ps-like under linux and mac os...

ramlambmoo

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« Reply #34 on: August 14, 2005, 09:37:01 pm »
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The problem isn\'t to get AeroGlass to run under OpenGL however. If you port AeroGlass to OpenGL it means you have to emulate D3D through OpenGL, and THAT will be the biggest hurdle to overcome.

Ask the guys working on Wine why they, despite having had YEARS to work on it, still haven\'t come anywhere near a perfect D3D emulation. Or DirectX for that matter. It\'s because emulation is everything but easy. Even *if* Microsoft were to use the Wine codebase (which they won\'t since it\'d basicly mean they\'d have to give Linux and Wine all their enhancements) they\'d still have lots of work to do, and that\'s where most of the bugtesting will end up.  


Yes, well thats not an issue really because we all know microsoft would never run areo glass on openGL instead of directX.  I was just questioning the \"6 months\" figure as being inaccurate for converting areo.  

As for the guys working with Wine, maybe the fact they havent got a perfect emulation working is because, well, they arent the ones who wrote the DirectX graphics library.  When you think about it, If there is a group that could write a decent emulator for DirectX, if would be the people who created it.  But thats a null point, since microsoft having to emulate directX isnt going to happen.

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Well, ever heard of Apple? When they first released their GUI for MacOSX, they pulled this exact same stunt, minus the piping OGL through whatever their proprietary 3D-library is called. It didn\'t take long before people complained about their OGL apps lagging to death, and Apple had to switch to OGL or face everyone switching to Linux/Windows. Fortunately, they didn\'t have the problem of having tonnes of legacy apps using a legacy proprietary API.  


Yes, this is exactly my point- Apple were not in a position to dictate terms here.  How many people use whatever the hell Macs graphics library is / was?  I dont even know if it still exists, or what its called.  On the other hand hundreds, if not thousands of apps rely on DirectX, and with their market share, they are in a good position.  While Apple couldn\'t reasonablly justify developers having to switch their programs to their graphics libraries to cater for that extra 5% of the market, Microsoft have a graphics library which will run better for 95% of users.

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What Microsoft does is only slightly better. I can\'t say I don\'t understand their reasoning, I just don\'t agree with it. It\'s by far too shortsighted IMO, and they\'re relying far too much on Microsoft keeping their monopoly - 95% today, but how much market share will they have in a month? A year? Two years? A decade? That, however, is a different topic alltogether, so I\'m just gonna STFU now.


How much market share will they have in a month? 95%.  In two years?  At a very minimum, i\'d say 80%.  In a decade?  Well, in a decade we\'ll be up to Windows Blackcomb and beyond, im not going to speculate about that.  Keep in mind that microsoft have been around for 30? years.  If theres any company that has a long term view, its them.  I mean, they can always fix the OpenGL compatibility issue later, cant they?  No real hurry, for them, and in the meantime they get an oppurtunity to kill it off by making it run poorly.  IMO they\'re just hedging their bets- Refusing to play ball in the meantime, doing some damage to it, and then they\'ll just make everything right again if openGL wins out.  Contrary to how it first looks, it would seem a pretty smart move.

The biggest issue i\'d be worrying about here, is not that my precious openGL apps wont run on windows, because you can always fix that but just running full screen, or turning off the stupid useless eye candy GUI, which I personally wont run anyway.  The real issue here is that by Forcing people into DirectX, it reduces the portability of programs to other operating systems, thus reducing their attractivness.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2005, 09:38:23 pm by ramlambmoo »

fireofsoul

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« Reply #35 on: August 15, 2005, 12:07:33 am »
Haha i saw a picture of planeshift in vista.. there are no buttons.. and everything is mushed up

wertigon

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« Reply #36 on: August 16, 2005, 05:26:06 pm »
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Originally posted by ramlambmoo
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The problem isn\'t to get AeroGlass to run under OpenGL however. If you port AeroGlass to OpenGL it means you have to emulate D3D through OpenGL, and THAT will be the biggest hurdle to overcome.

Ask the guys working on Wine why they, despite having had YEARS to work on it, still haven\'t come anywhere near a perfect D3D emulation. Or DirectX for that matter. It\'s because emulation is everything but easy. Even *if* Microsoft were to use the Wine codebase (which they won\'t since it\'d basicly mean they\'d have to give Linux and Wine all their enhancements) they\'d still have lots of work to do, and that\'s where most of the bugtesting will end up.  


Yes, well thats not an issue really because we all know microsoft would never run areo glass on openGL instead of directX.  I was just questioning the \"6 months\" figure as being inaccurate for converting areo.  

As for the guys working with Wine, maybe the fact they havent got a perfect emulation working is because, well, they arent the ones who wrote the DirectX graphics library.  When you think about it, If there is a group that could write a decent emulator for DirectX, if would be the people who created it.  But thats a null point, since microsoft having to emulate directX isnt going to happen.


It\'s a moot point, and I said so since the beginning. :P

However, for the record the Wine guys have the documented APIs for DX, they know how they *should* render, and they\'re a bunch of brilliant software developers, especially with Novell/TransGaming/Whatever pumps in resources into developing Wine even further. And today the situation is merely okay, and much remains to be done. That says something.

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Well, ever heard of Apple? When they first released their GUI for MacOSX, they pulled this exact same stunt, minus the piping OGL through whatever their proprietary 3D-library is called. It didn\'t take long before people complained about their OGL apps lagging to death, and Apple had to switch to OGL or face everyone switching to Linux/Windows. Fortunately, they didn\'t have the problem of having tonnes of legacy apps using a legacy proprietary API.  


Yes, this is exactly my point- Apple were not in a position to dictate terms here.  How many people use whatever the hell Macs graphics library is / was?  I dont even know if it still exists, or what its called.  On the other hand hundreds, if not thousands of apps rely on DirectX, and with their market share, they are in a good position.  While Apple couldn\'t reasonablly justify developers having to switch their programs to their graphics libraries to cater for that extra 5% of the market, Microsoft have a graphics library which will run better for 95% of users.


Yes, Microsoft is the only company in a position to push their own, proprietary *lock-in* technologies to this extent. That doesn\'t make it right. We have an Open Standard. It\'s called OpenGL. No matter how great DirectX is, as long as it isn\'t open, it won\'t be used by anything non-MS. And it\'s not too hard to imagine that in five years, Microsoft will have around 60% of all desktop computers in the world, if not less. China, Taiwan, Brazil, South Korea, Japan, South Africa... All countries that in the very near future won\'t be running Windows as their primary OS. See the links below for more info. (And yes, I\'m aware it\'s \"only\" the governments that switch at the moment, but the people will follow their lead, and probably sooner rather than later.)

http://english.people.com.cn/200404/05/eng20040405_139504.shtml
http://www.techworld.com/opsys/features/index.cfm?featureid=1661
http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS9000119646.html
http://www.itworldcanada.com/a/CIO-Gov.-Review/3f0b617f-682d-49c1-a7fe-3d91c00112d1.html

So then I ask ye - Why destroy OpenGL and make your OS suck even more? No, better to start playing nice, while there\'s still time, and start building trust instead of trying to bully your own APIs through.

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What Microsoft does is only slightly better. I can\'t say I don\'t understand their reasoning, I just don\'t agree with it. It\'s by far too shortsighted IMO, and they\'re relying far too much on Microsoft keeping their monopoly - 95% today, but how much market share will they have in a month? A year? Two years? A decade? That, however, is a different topic alltogether, so I\'m just gonna STFU now.


How much market share will they have in a month? 95%.  In two years?  At a very minimum, i\'d say 80%.  In a decade?  Well, in a decade we\'ll be up to Windows Blackcomb and beyond, im not going to speculate about that.  Keep in mind that microsoft have been around for 30? years.  If theres any company that has a long term view, its them.  I mean, they can always fix the OpenGL compatibility issue later, cant they?  No real hurry, for them, and in the meantime they get an oppurtunity to kill it off by making it run poorly.  IMO they\'re just hedging their bets- Refusing to play ball in the meantime, doing some damage to it, and then they\'ll just make everything right again if openGL wins out.  Contrary to how it first looks, it would seem a pretty smart move.

The biggest issue i\'d be worrying about here, is not that my precious openGL apps wont run on windows, because you can always fix that but just running full screen, or turning off the stupid useless eye candy GUI, which I personally wont run anyway.  The real issue here is that by Forcing people into DirectX, it reduces the portability of programs to other operating systems, thus reducing their attractivness.


Exactly. I can live without the eye-candy, but I\'m in a minority. And what if there\'s some killer functionality that requires composite desktop to work? All this will do is set back the industry by a couple of years. They can\'t stop the use of OpenGL, but they sure as hell can try.

Of course, much can happen yet. Vista is just in public beta so far. It\'s highly possible the API will change, and that\'s why they won\'t give card vendors the specs to write drivers that play nice with OpenGL and Aeroglass at the same time. I\'m hoping that is just what it is. But if Vista ships the way it is right now... Then they deserve every harsh word they\'ll get.

Let\'s wait and see, shall we?
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Jakob

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« Reply #37 on: August 20, 2005, 07:08:01 pm »
Well... What does anyone expect from a bunch of paranoid schizophrenics who think that Google is out to get them?  Okay, so that has nothing to with this, but whatever.  The fact still stands that M$ is greedy and paranoid(not a good combination)

/me goes to look for Pear PC \"Maybe it\'s working better now.\"

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ramlambmoo

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« Reply #38 on: August 20, 2005, 08:55:16 pm »
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It\'s a moot point, and I said so since the beginning.


What are you saying is a moot point?  The 6 months or microsoft switching to openGL?  Make yourself a bit clearer.
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However, for the record the Wine guys have the documented APIs for DX, they know how they *should* render, and they\'re a bunch of brilliant software developers, especially with Novell/TransGaming/Whatever pumps in resources into developing Wine even further. And today the situation is merely okay, and much remains to be done. That says something.  


Says what?  That for all their brilliance and innovation they still couldnt get it working perfectly?  What is the point you\'re trying to make here?  All im claiming is that if someone had to make a DirectX emulation, then the people who wrote the DirectX library would probablly be in the box seat, agreed?

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Yes, Microsoft is the only company in a position to push their own, proprietary *lock-in* technologies to this extent. That doesn\'t make it right. We have an Open Standard. It\'s called OpenGL.


No, openGL is not the standard.  Do you have any proof of it being the industry standard, apart from the fact you would like it to be?  Lets see how many seconds the industry \"standard\" lasts when microsoft doesnt support it with vista?  Microsoft has an equivalent, similar API to OpenGL.  Saying OpenGL is the standard because it works on a wider variety of o/s is a void point when the one it doesnt work on (soon to be) has 95% of the market share.  Now that I read your statement again, you said \"Open\" standard.  What is that meant to mean?  Open source standard?  Well since Windows is a *closed* source program, they dont really need to adhere to open Standards?  Clarify what you mean by that.

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No matter how great DirectX is, as long as it isn\'t open, it won\'t be used by anything non-MS.


So?  \"anything non-MS\" comprises of approximatly 5% of the market.  I dont exactly think microsoft are really that concerned about that, you know.  In fact, microsoft wouldnt even want Linux etc to be using DirectX, because then it increases the portability of the tons of windows app using directX.  DirectX is a technology designed for windows.

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And it\'s not too hard to imagine that in five years, Microsoft will have around 60% of all desktop computers in the world, if not less. China, Taiwan, Brazil, South Korea, Japan, South Africa... All countries that in the very near future won\'t be running Windows as their primary OS. See the links below for more info. (And yes, I\'m aware it\'s \"only\" the governments that switch at the moment, but the people will follow their lead, and probably sooner rather than later.)  


rofl... South Korea?  Hahaha.  Japan? Get real.  Lets have a look at the links you gave me:

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On April 3, the first China-Japan-S.Korea IT ministers\' conference for OSS (Open Source Software) was held in Beijing. It was jointly sponsored by China Ministry of Information, Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry and Ministry of Public Management, Home Affairs, Posts and Telecommunications of Japan, and Ministry of Information and Communication of ROK. The three countries signed \"the Memo for Cooperation on Opening Source Code\".


Big jump from Governments holding a meeting about open source, to \"Majority of country using linux and OpenGL in 5 years\".

The second article was just a puff piece showing some governments that had open source or linux inititives in place: Things like \"and they are showing keen interest in helping accelerate the maturation of Linux on the desktop\".  Thats not a definitive statement: thats an opinion about their intentions which may lead to growth of linux in the future.  Also \"The use of embedded Linux in Japan\'s consumer electronics industry is growing rapidly, as is the adoption of carrier-grade Linux in telephony\".  Notice they dont give any figures, just \"is growing rapidly\".  And not the consumer desktop linux division, but using linux in telephone communications.  Slight difference there.
The third article comes from \"Desktop Linux\", and is so obvious a neutral third party here, and couldnt possibly be basied towards one side.  Still, at least it gaves some figures.
\"National Public Radio (NPR) is airing a story about the Brazillian government\'s initiative to migrate 40 percent of its computers to Free Software such as Linux by 2006. The four-minute spot includes great quotes from Brazillian government officials, including one likening Microsoft\'s marketing tactics to those of a drug dealer\".
Someone airing a story about a supposed aim to convert 40% to linux by the end of 2006.  Well, thats a government aim.  Certaintly the brazilian government has a proven track record of trying to implement cutting edge technologies for the common good.  Have a look at their failed Ethanol fuel substitution experiment, and you\'ll see what I mean.  Of course, I\'m doubtful that switching to linux can cause widespread deforestation, envrionmental damage, huge social problems and billions of lost dollars, but well you never know... :P
In fact, if we\'re going to quote Biased articles, well I could go to microsoft.com and quote their articles as showing why Windows is better than linux in those countries you mentioned.
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserversystem/facts/worldwide/default.mspx
However, of course the Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Brazilian etc pages are in the local pages, so I cant quote some juicy propaganda for you.
As for your last article:
\"Countries in Africa are gradually adopting strategies that promote the use of Linux as an alternative to Windows, and South Africa is leading the charge, with the government\'s recent approval of an open source software adoption plan.\"
Gradually adopting strategies that promote the use of Linux as an alternative to Windows.  All very key words to note there.

In conclusion, I think you\'re making a bit of a jump from those articles to 40% of the world using linux in 5 years time.  Time will tell, eh?

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(And yes, I\'m aware it\'s \"only\" the governments that switch at the moment, but the people will follow their lead, and probably sooner rather than later.)  


Yes, because we all follow what our governments do.  Well, at least those simple minded fools in China, Korea, Japan, Brazil and India will. [/sarcasm]

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So then I ask ye - Why destroy OpenGL and make your OS suck even more? No, better to start playing nice, while there\'s still time, and start building trust instead of trying to bully your own APIs through.  


Well, if you dont understand why they\'re doing it now, as I\'ve explained to you earlier, then you never will.  Since they have created the most successful computing business ever, and created some of the richest people in the world along with it, one would think they have some idea of how to run a business.

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Exactly. I can live without the eye-candy, but I\'m in a minority. And what if there\'s some killer functionality that requires composite desktop to work? All this will do is set back the industry by a couple of years. They can\'t stop the use of OpenGL, but they sure as hell can try.  


What if?  What if?  The point is there isnt some killer OpenGL app, and, with microsoft making these moves, it will ensure that any killer apps in the future will at least have DirectX support, if they want it to be a commerical success.  And if its an open source killer app, then someone could just take the source code and port it to DirectX to get it to work on windows.

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Of course, much can happen yet. Vista is just in public beta so far. It\'s highly possible the API will change, and that\'s why they won\'t give card vendors the specs to write drivers that play nice with OpenGL and Aeroglass at the same time. I\'m hoping that is just what it is. But if Vista ships the way it is right now... Then they deserve every harsh word they\'ll get.

Let\'s wait and see, shall we?


Yes, and they deserve every harsh word they got for Netscape, and every other technology they killed... but somehow I dont think they\'re too worried about harsh words.  I still dont think It will be this way when Vista Ships, but either way it wont affect me, since im not buying vista, and even if I did, I\'ll just turn the eye candy off anyway.

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« Reply #39 on: August 21, 2005, 12:09:25 am »
Doesn\'t bother me. I\'ve seen IE7 ... what a joke. this OpenGL thing must be the punch line.
I dont use windows.
As for DX to be the industry standard, i really dont care. The day i have to use windows to play some uberl33t game i\'ll buy a PS3 and forget PC gamming apart from solitaire :P
And im a strong believer that if it bothers you/does something you dont like/want dont use/buy it.
That simple, no use in getting all bitchy, and going all \"MicroSux TM\" on some God forgotten forum. They\'r morons, people get that. Get over it!
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« Reply #40 on: August 21, 2005, 12:35:42 am »
*passes by and can\'t continue without making a coment

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No!!!

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« Reply #41 on: August 28, 2005, 12:58:42 am »
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Originally posted by ramlambmoo
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It\'s a moot point, and I said so since the beginning.


What are you saying is a moot point?  The 6 months or microsoft switching to openGL?  Make yourself a bit clearer.
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However, for the record the Wine guys have the documented APIs for DX, they know how they *should* render, and they\'re a bunch of brilliant software developers, especially with Novell/TransGaming/Whatever pumps in resources into developing Wine even further. And today the situation is merely okay, and much remains to be done. That says something.  


Says what?  That for all their brilliance and innovation they still couldnt get it working perfectly?  What is the point you\'re trying to make here?  All im claiming is that if someone had to make a DirectX emulation, then the people who wrote the DirectX library would probablly be in the box seat, agreed?


1. Microsoft switching to OpenGL, duh.

2. Says something of how hard it is to make perfect emulation. I\'m disputing it\'ll take a mere six months to emulate D3D through OpenGL. However, I do agree that the D3D-guys will have an advantage.

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Originally posted by ramlambmoo
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Yes, Microsoft is the only company in a position to push their own, proprietary *lock-in* technologies to this extent. That doesn\'t make it right. We have an Open Standard. It\'s called OpenGL.


No, openGL is not the standard.  Do you have any proof of it being the industry standard, apart from the fact you would like it to be?  Lets see how many seconds the industry \"standard\" lasts when microsoft doesnt support it with vista?  Microsoft has an equivalent, similar API to OpenGL.  Saying OpenGL is the standard because it works on a wider variety of o/s is a void point when the one it doesnt work on (soon to be) has 95% of the market share.  Now that I read your statement again, you said \"Open\" standard.  What is that meant to mean?  Open source standard?  Well since Windows is a *closed* source program, they dont really need to adhere to open Standards?  Clarify what you mean by that.


Uhm... Dude. Everything 3D-accellerated except games more or less use OpenGL, or have a plugin/option for it. Maya, 3DSM, Medical softwares etc... Practicly the ENTIRE WORLD use OpenGL nowadays. Anything that runs on Linux and MacOSX and anything NON-Microsoft use it. So it\'s MS vs the rest of the world.

As for open standards:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_standard

In other words, Open Standards are there to increase interoperability. If you don\'t use Open Standards it\'s akin to saying \"No, I won\'t play soccer with you, we\'re not using my ball!\" Seen?

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Originally posted by ramlambmoo
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No matter how great DirectX is, as long as it isn\'t open, it won\'t be used by anything non-MS.


So?  \"anything non-MS\" comprises of approximatly 5% of the market.  I dont exactly think microsoft are really that concerned about that, you know.  In fact, microsoft wouldnt even want Linux etc to be using DirectX, because then it increases the portability of the tons of windows app using directX.  DirectX is a technology designed for windows.


Well, DUH. But if cross-platform is something you want... Then DirectX and/or Direct3D is not an option. Simple as that. You know it, Microsoft knows it. Crippling OpenGL won\'t change that fact. The only thing that can change that fact is to make DX an Open Standard. And then Microsoft have lost the advantages they had in the first place.

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Originally posted by ramlambmoo
[snip]
In conclusion, I think you\'re making a bit of a jump from those articles to 40% of the world using linux in 5 years time.  Time will tell, eh?

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(And yes, I\'m aware it\'s \"only\" the governments that switch at the moment, but the people will follow their lead, and probably sooner rather than later.)  


Yes, because we all follow what our governments do.  Well, at least those simple minded fools in China, Korea, Japan, Brazil and India will. [/sarcasm]


If Microsoft continues to use their policy of ignoring and/or poorly support everything not coming from Redmond, then yes. Simply because it\'ll mean that interoperability issues will be so huge it\'ll be ridiculous.

The argument goes something like this:

My work runs this new shiny OS. Then I\'ll also run it. Why? Because it\'s a helluva lot easier to get (free) support on this OS than on that other OS. You run what your more computer-savy friends run. And in countries like mine where the gov is boss for like, 25-30% of the market (in other words, the biggest employer by far) it\'s not hard to see that their workforce might switch as well. Especially when it comes to first-time computer owners.

Meanwhile, Linux has a much cheaper price tag than Windows and while it has some rough edges still, it\'s becoming a really interesting alternative to Windows. So... Yea. It\'ll be a huge market, but I think most of it will happen in 3rd-world countries or NICs.

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Originally posted by ramlambmoo
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So then I ask ye - Why destroy OpenGL and make your OS suck even more? No, better to start playing nice, while there\'s still time, and start building trust instead of trying to bully your own APIs through.  


Well, if you dont understand why they\'re doing it now, as I\'ve explained to you earlier, then you never will.  Since they have created the most successful computing business ever, and created some of the richest people in the world along with it, one would think they have some idea of how to run a business.


I know exactly *why* they\'re doing it. I just don\'t agree with their reasoning. Microsoft isn\'t stupid, but, to quote a certain professor Dumbledore, \"Just because I\'m smart doesn\'t mean I make mistakes. It just means my mistakes are that much greater when I make them.\" Even smart companies do utterly stupid things from time to time. :P

Now, Microsofts monopoly *will* end. Probably sometime within this decade, but at the very latest next decade. Linux is a viable alternative nowadays, and not a day goes by without me reading about Linux and Open Source making inroads. Linux is here to stay, for better or worse. And Microsoft can stop it as much as they can stop an avalanche.

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Originally posted by ramlambmoo
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Exactly. I can live without the eye-candy, but I\'m in a minority. And what if there\'s some killer functionality that requires composite desktop to work? All this will do is set back the industry by a couple of years. They can\'t stop the use of OpenGL, but they sure as hell can try.  


What if?  What if?  The point is there isnt some killer OpenGL app, and, with microsoft making these moves, it will ensure that any killer apps in the future will at least have DirectX support, if they want it to be a commerical success.  And if its an open source killer app, then someone could just take the source code and port it to DirectX to get it to work on windows.


... Note I said \"Killer *functionality*\", as in the desktop has something that\'s so useful you\'d rather write an OpenGL-game in COBOL than use Windows without it. And don\'t confuse OpenGL-apps with Open Source. OpenGL is a standard, Open Source is a licensing model. Anyone can write a closed-source OpenGL-powered application or game (Doom 3, Half-Life 2, Maya to mention a few of the existing ones).

And need D3D to be a commercial success? It all depends on your market. Like already stated, this means nothing for most GL games since users won\'t notice anything out of the ordinary (except if they alt-tab out of the game). So game devs are pretty much safe there. It\'s the CAD/3D-modelling/Medical software apps that will suffer. And those usually make more money on Macs and *NIX than on Windows.

All this will mean is a bunch of pissed-off devs. And all Microsoft need to do is to give Nvidia/3D-Labs/ATi some information and this issue will cease to exist... What worries me though is that Microsoft hasn\'t said anything about it yet. Not even a vague promise that they will give it sometime when the APIs have stabilized.

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Originally posted by ramlambmoo
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Of course, much can happen yet. Vista is just in public beta so far. It\'s highly possible the API will change, and that\'s why they won\'t give card vendors the specs to write drivers that play nice with OpenGL and Aeroglass at the same time. I\'m hoping that is just what it is. But if Vista ships the way it is right now... Then they deserve every harsh word they\'ll get.

Let\'s wait and see, shall we?


Yes, and they deserve every harsh word they got for Netscape, and every other technology they killed... but somehow I dont think they\'re too worried about harsh words.  I still dont think It will be this way when Vista Ships, but either way it wont affect me, since im not buying vista, and even if I did, I\'ll just turn the eye candy off anyway.


Like I said: Let\'s wait and see.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2005, 08:04:59 pm by wertigon »
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Efflixi Aduro

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« Reply #42 on: August 28, 2005, 01:59:47 am »
Bit off topic but does anyone know if they are still considering a monthly fee to avoid people \"stealing\" windows?

Another thing why would those idiots make stuff run WORSE. Could somone explain their resoning behind this to me...
If there is any :P
« Last Edit: August 28, 2005, 02:04:07 am by Efflixi Aduro »
Lol Internet