Player Conduct

[Bodacher]

Just wanted to register my disgust with all the players that are using the attack bug to achieve easy kills on monsters they should be running from.  I\'m pretty sure it has been discussed that this is a bug, and if you knowingly use it to gain an advantage, it is considered cheating ( by most people I know anyway, including myself ).

Now, wasn\'t the point of the wipe to get \"rid of exploits, bugged accounts and cheaters\"?!  We are here to find the bugs, not use them to our greatest advantage!

The really sad thing is it\'s not just noobs doing this.  I\'ve seen veterans and players that I thought had more moral fibre, using it too.

I just wanted to get this off my chest. ( Thought I\'d feel better, but I\'m still angry ,disgusted and in a couple of cases, disappointed. )

Bodacher hangs his head in sadness and shame for the community\'s behavior.

[Moogie]

Doesn\'t really harm anyone, does it? Let\'s just say the Azure Crystal has caused some inexplicable mental damage to the mobs of Yliakum and they are temporarily blinded to obstacles. Whether people take advantage of this for the few weeks that it may remain unfixed, or not, it doesn\'t do any harm in the long run.

[druke]

people shouldn\'t exploit just out of good etiquite ... moggie i am rather appauled to here YOU say something like that.

[Kiern]

Originally posted by Moogie
Doesn\'t really harm anyone, does it? Let\'s just say the Azure Crystal has caused some inexplicable mental damage to the mobs of Yliakum and they are temporarily blinded to obstacles. Whether people take advantage of this for the few weeks that it may remain unfixed, or not, it doesn\'t do any harm in the long run.

Using exploits is cheating, plain and simple.  It shouldn\'t matter whether or not it does \"harm\".

[Moogie]

I\'m very much against people using exploits to gain an unfair advantage over others, but being able to kill a few more monsters isn\'t something anyone else can\'t do, and it will inevitably be fixed soon. I\'m not saying it\'s not wrong to do it, but let\'s not have an aneurism over it.

[zanzibar]

There is an extremely easy fix for this problem:

Give monsters a larger attack range than players!

Easy fix.  Hasn\'t been done yet.

[Kiern]

Originally posted by Moogie
I\'m very much against people using exploits to gain an unfair advantage over others, but being able to kill a few more monsters isn\'t something anyone else can\'t do, and it will inevitably be fixed soon.

Not true.  I have no idea what exploit you are all talking about, if I were to go in game right this moment it would be totally unfair to me.

Not that I care, but your logic is wrong.

[Xordan]

Originally posted by zanzibar
There is an extremely easy fix for this problem:

Give monsters a larger attack range than players!

Easy fix.  Hasn\'t been done yet.

They already do have a larger attack range than players. I changed this just before the release. This problem isn\'t to do with the ranges, rather the AI itself I think.

Anyway, if the effects are bad enough then we\'ll do another full wipe instead of just an item wipe whenever we get around to it. But we\'ll just have to see when the time comes. I\'m sure it will be fixed before any big damage is done.

[Seytra]

Originally posted by Xordan
Anyway, if the effects are bad enough then we\'ll do another full wipe instead of just an item wipe whenever we get around to it.

This is precisely what I predicted. And frankly, the number of painfully obvious bugs that have not been found by the pre-release closed testing (if any was conducted, which doesn\'t seem like it) is just sad. Seriously, one should think that movement would have been tested after the system has been changed, no? Especially since there was a high number of bugs in the previous movement system already...

Anyway, I completely agree that exploiting bugs equals cheating, and due to the supposed permanency of the chars there is no excuse whatsoever. :tdown:

[Bodacher]

I\'m not going to explain the bug for fear that others who don\'t know about it will start using it.  There are too many doing it already.  However it is the same one that has been known for some time ( as long as I have been playing anyway ) and does not involve walls or other obstacles.  This is not a new bug, is what I am getting at, and I was more concerned about the fact that tons of people are using it, not the fact that it is there.  The bug has always been there, but I have never seen so many exploiting it before.  Perhaps it is a consequence of the new progression system, but that is no reason to act like: \"Well the devs made it too hard to train, so I might as well cheat\".

[Xordan]

Originally posted by Seytra
frankly, the number of painfully obvious bugs that have not been found by the pre-release closed testing (if any was conducted, which doesn\'t seem like it) is just sad.

A lot of bugs were fixed before release. Some more were found and we decided to release anyway. Others require a lot of people to find. We\'ve already made quite a lot of fixes to bugs, and we\'ll probably have a bugfix release soon. (soon=within the next 2 months )

[Seytra]

Originally posted by Bodacher
The bug has always been there, but I have never seen so many exploiting it before.  Perhaps it is a consequence of the new progression system, but that is no reason to act like: \"Well the devs made it too hard to train, so I might as well cheat\".

I know the bug and absolutely agree. Even if it is a consequence of the new progression system. I think the reason isn\'t the new system (money was a problem earlier, yet the hard Teffies in the arena were not abused even when the other spawns were all but gone). It\'s the percieved permanency that makes people do it. Before the wipe there was no point in risking being caught cheating. Now there seems to be. Which proves once more that it is only a matter of prize when morale becomes corrupted.

@ Xordan: I see... though I really wonder how the movement bugs could have been considered acceptable for release. They require only one single player to spot and are severe IMO.

And I wonder why the simple fix that I did for the description editor wasn\'t included in the update, and instead it was left broken? Not to mention that the detailed proposal for a better color scheme for the messages I did months ago obviously has been ignored, and the way feature requests are \"implemented\" are... not good.

[Xordan]

I see... though I really wonder how the movement bugs could have been considered acceptable for release. They require only one single player to spot and are severe IMO.

Well they rarely occurred for us. We didn\'t jump around pressing the fly key while running backwards

And I wonder why the simple fix that I did for the description editor wasn\'t included in the update, and instead it was left broken? Not to mention that the detailed proposal for a better color scheme for the messages I did months ago obviously has been ignored, and the way feature requests are \"implemented\" are... not good.

Because we don\'t check the forums for fixes. I committed lots of patches from people (stfrn, pogo for example) because they either emailed them to me, or gave them to me in IRC via a link. Feel free to shove any patch you make into our faces so it\'s committed.

[Seytra]

Originally posted by Xordan

I see... though I really wonder how the movement bugs could have been considered acceptable for release. They require only one single player to spot and are severe IMO.

Well they rarely occurred for us. We didn\'t jump around pressing the fly key while running backwards

Last time I checked, running backwards wasn\'t required.

Anyway, I was talking about the run modifier, the mouselook making everything except 1st person and dynamic follow nearly unusable, many hotkeys not working, etc..

Originally posted by Xordan

And I wonder why the simple fix that I did for the description editor wasn\'t included in the update, and instead it was left broken? Not to mention that the detailed proposal for a better color scheme for the messages I did months ago obviously has been ignored, and the way feature requests are \"implemented\" are... not good.

Because we don\'t check the forums for fixes. I committed lots of patches from people (stfrn, pogo for example) because they either emailed them to me, or gave them to me in IRC via a link. Feel free to shove any patch you make into our faces so it\'s committed.

Hmm, I see (though I _did_ PM the coloring proposal). Anyway, expect to be contacted by me, then.

[Russ]

I\'ve seen so many bugs that I couldn\'t count them all.  But the game runs rather well.  Why are so many people whining about exploiters.  Everygame that ever existed there are people who will find bugs, error, moronic AI\'s etc to whatever ends they need to cheat or make the game better.  

I believe an \"exploiter\" is nessary to find bugs were others wouldn\'t think of doing.  If those people don\'t reported it, so what.  Someone else will!  If everybody follows the programing which is so corrupted.  How can the game ever progress?  

To remind you all its just a game and only in the Beta stages.  Second Its for free so don\'t complain.  If you find a bug just report it thats all then get on with your life.  Most importantly we all get wiped anyways sooner or later.