Convince I'm wrong, but is this the real reason for the new wipe?

[zanzibar]

There will always be some characters who are further ahead than the rest.  The really old accounts were created with tens of thousands of tria carried over from the crystal hunt.

So, why the wipe?

Is it only because some characters have GM-only items?

If so, why does this matter?

If anything, \"GM-only\" items like galkards, silver and gold falchions, and sharpened picks should be added into the economy on purpose and not by accident.

Why?

Because rare items create a player based economy.

Am I wrong?

[Valbrandr]

No need to make a new thread.. but yes it is because some gained 100k + in the few hours rats were dropping swords.  I spent atleast 100 playing MB... collected 5500 cystals and I get 13,000 tria.  Cheaters should never be catered to.  I wish we could just wipe their characters... every single person who cheated.  Not to mention it would not be a big deal if they shared teh wealth instead of maxing their character.  Cheaters always make it bad for the whole.  Thats why as soon as I noticed the bug... I left the sewers.. I did get two gold falchions first but I left and did not come back until it was fixed.  And all the money I gained in the 5 to 10 minutes I was down there I gave to other people.  

Basically.. dont cheat.  If you notice a bug come to the forum and post about it.  Dont exploit it.. who wants to max their character by cheating?

[Externals]

Val, im all the way with what you just said and thats a very honorable thing to do. The right thing, you didnt abuse just like everyone else and decided to help others since you got inexplicable items.

That my friend,.. is cool.

[ramlambmoo]

No need to make a new thread.. but yes it is because some gained 100k + in the few hours rats were dropping swords. I spent atleast 100 playing MB... collected 5500 cystals and I get 13,000 tria. Cheaters should never be catered to. I wish we could just wipe their characters... every single person who cheated. Not to mention it would not be a big deal if they shared teh wealth instead of maxing their character. Cheaters always make it bad for the whole. Thats why as soon as I noticed the bug... I left the sewers.. I did get two gold falchions first but I left and did not come back until it was fixed. And all the money I gained in the 5 to 10 minutes I was down there I gave to other people.

Basically.. dont cheat. If you notice a bug come to the forum and post about it. Dont exploit it.. who wants to max their character by cheating?

The loot bug wasnt cheating.  The devs told us before even the first wipe that there would be a second one because of the loot bug, which they knew was going to happen.  Now, If they knew it was going to happen, and included it anyway, perhaps then they actually wanted people to test the new loot system?  Everybody knew that there would be an items wipe, and thus that loot meant nothing, so I honestly dont see what you\'re complaining about.

There will always be some characters who are further ahead than the rest. The really old accounts were created with tens of thousands of tria carried over from the crystal hunt.  

Yes, but the issue here is about people being ridiculously and unfairly ahead.  This was a planned wipe, that was always going to happen because the new loot system had to be tested.  You\'re reading too much into it.

[Valbrandr]

The loot bug wasnt cheating. The devs told us before even the first wipe that there would be a second one because of the loot bug, which they knew was going to happen. Now, If they knew it was going to happen, and included it anyway, perhaps then they actually wanted people to test the new loot system? Everybody knew that there would be an items wipe, and thus that loot meant nothing, so I honestly dont see what you\'re complaining about.

Big difference in testing it and loading up on the swords over and over again to see how much money you get.  That is cheating... people who take advantage of the system are cheaters.  Please someone who did not cheat play the devils advocate and tell me how it would not be construed as that.

[Externals]

Vals right, one thing is looking for bugs.. perhaps by mistake using one. But by manipulating it and keep using it to your advantage.. thats another story.

[Gentar]

Personally i agree with rambmoo. People already had fare warning way in advance that there would be a second items wipe so in the great scheme of things, what does it matter thant they picked up lots of swords. it accomplished precisely what the devs wanted it to. On the other hand I think that the whole starting out with crystals thing is a little bogus. I collected many a crystal back when MB was around but that was the past I dont think I should have an advantage in an almost completey revamped system because of that past. The only reason I took advantage of it this time was because I didnt want a new name.

oh yeah, i doubt that the gold falchions and galkards and such are GM items any more. I would be willing to bet that you can get them in a rare moster drop. (since they fixed it with the rats i mean)

[Kias]

Yes, everyone had fare warning but because the bug was known doesn\'t make it acceptable. The reason they released it with the loot bug was probably:

a) Many bugs and the like only come out when it is released onto the main server, when many people are doing many number of things.

b) This is pre-alpha. The whole point of us being here is to help the devs take out the bugs and make constructive criticism. Yes, many players got heaps of tria from those gold swords but you should realise that after it has been fixed, there should be a wipe to eliminate the bug all together. Even if the bug does not happen any more, the ill gotten gains remain.

c) Due to an oversight, some people got the idea that since they got all this loot and that the second wipe was only going to take away loot and tria, that they would go and train since the stats weren\'t going to be touched. If a complete second wipe does not happen soon, not only will those people who tried to maximise their stats by using a bug be punished but those who worked on their stats over a long period of time. If the wipe was left for a few months, it would hurt everyone and thats not good.

I\'m not saying that everyone is to blame, but we do need an even playing field. The first wipe was meant to make one but due to the bug it isn\'t. A second wipe won\'t be a big deal if it is done soon.

[Keyaz]

theres always an enemy, no matter how much you try to do things right.

i wish i could shoot someone in the face because of this pointless debate. some updates require the server be restarted, some just work instantly, some require it to be completely rebuilt, although rarer, so, while the hting is down, no problems of players whiulke testing a nerw feature, why not clear out the cache of all that crud no one needs, erase the mistakes and set everyone to 0.

you might just notice that even if a player has miugrated from mb and starts with a few thousand tria instead of nothing, they dont get ahead, you see, these people have been here more then five minutes and know what this community is actually about, the two views basically are:

you PL till you hit the limit of training and nothing else to do, get bored, and leave, soon to forget about the game

you \'play\' the game, you rp and become a part of the community, make new things happen every day and always witnessor create something new, never to get bored or forget, because its alwys there inside you. over time oyu may leave, but you\'ll never forget.

so you see, the wipe is necessary to fix things, and the people that start off with that little bonus dont use it to get ahead, because they dont care for the race, there is no race

[Cyl]

Originally posted by Demarthl
you PL till you hit the limit of training and nothing else to do, get bored, and leave, soon to forget about the game

you \'play\' the game, you rp and become a part of the community, make new things happen every day and always witnessor create something new, never to get bored or forget, because its alwys there inside you. over time oyu may leave, but you\'ll never forget.

Hmm I always had a thought in my back, a point I wanted to discuss about:

Is a certain amount of Plling needed to support your RP?

On the one hand you can RP pretty anything, but on the other it wouldn\'t be easy to RP a strong fighter, and actually get blown away by the first wind that hits you, or a foulmouthed and drinking dwarf who cant even drink tea without getting drunk, ...

[Kias]

At the moment, most skills aren\'t even implemented so RPing without a basis in stats is needed. If we based our characters on stats at the moment we\'d either have burly miners or newbie rat catchers

When the many ways to level the skills open up, then people can put a solid foundation to their character. Anyways, powerleveling and RP do not go hand in hand. Powerleveling is where a person levels their skills for the sake of high numbers. Roleplaying is creating a believable character and interacting with others in character. Roleplaying does involve leveling but the kind that isn\'t purely for the high numbers but more to add to the character and make him/her more believable.

[ramlambmoo]

Big difference in testing it and loading up on the swords over and over again to see how much money you get. That is cheating... people who take advantage of the system are cheaters. Please someone who did not cheat play the devils advocate and tell me how it would not be construed as that.

Well, you originally said that getting alot of swords is cheating.  It isnt.  Getting alot of swords and selling them and then getting alot of PP and training your stats could be classified as cheating, but thats not what you said.  The fact remains that the mere action of getting alot of swords isnt unfair, and it was planned and catered for.

[Kias]

It\'s not cheating? Exploitation is a form of cheating and sure collecting heaaps of swords isn\'t violating anything, but the fact remains that some people out there DID use these swords to sell for tria to spend on themselves. The fact is the easiest way to get rid of swords is to sell. Somehow I don\'t think they want everyone in the game to have castle loads of tria and some to have high stats because of the tria. What happens when the mac version is released? We have a disadvantage because of the bug.

Way to fix this is a complete wipe.

[ramlambmoo]

It\'s not cheating? Exploitation is a form of cheating and sure collecting heaaps of swords isn\'t violating anything, but the fact remains that some people out there DID use these swords to sell for tria to spend on themselves.  

You keep making the mistake of equating looting swords with looting swords, selling them, hoarding progression points and training skills.  Theres a difference here.  The fact remains that alot of people didnt use the bug to train skills, so stop implying that everyone who looted swords did and thus everyone that looted swords cheated.  They didnt.

Somehow I don\'t think they want everyone in the game to have castle loads of tria and some to have high stats because of the tria.

The devs knew that everyone would have castleloads of tria, and so they planned an items wipe to compensate for this.  As for the skills situation, they implemented an exponential (or something close to it) cost in terms of tria and PP to train ordinary skills- for example level 7 to level 8 sword takes 150 progression points.  So someone using this bug cant just level up to level 80 sword.  The only problem was that the cost in progression points of training the character stats like strength, agility, etc, werent high enough, and so some people trained these.

What happens when the mac version is released? We have a disadvantage because of the bug.  

The mac people are always going to be disadvantaged, due to the fact their release never comes out at the same time.  Even if there wasnt a bug, they\'d still be disadvantaged because they miss two weeks of gameplay.  Shock horror.  Thats not exactly fair, but there isnt anything the devs can do about it- do you want a wipe everytime planeshift gets updated, for all eternity, just to keep it fair for the mac users?  Perhaps if you used the o/s that 90% of the rest of the population used, you wouldnt have this problem.  Harsh but true.  If you dont like it, I encourage you to join the dev team and work on updating the mac version everytime a new release comes about.  Or install linux on your mac and run planeshift from that.

[zanzibar]

meh

A complete wipe is fine as long as it happens soon.