The kill stealing is getting really bad.

[zanzibar]

People are still using Arrow to steal kills.

Instead of arrow interupting the physical attack of another player, you get \"first in line\" for the kill.  Here\'s the order of events:

[creature spawns]
[one player starts an attack, the other player starts \"Arrow\" spell from far away]
[the first player hits the creature]
[the second player hits the creature with arrow]
[the first player is forced out of the attack for a minute or so]


This has to stop.  GMs don\'t have the time or patience to look after each individual event, and they can\'t be everwhere at once.  In the 3 minutes I was on, not one but two players used this method against me in the arena (Eolius and Mitaki).

If this is going to be a continuing problem, then the spell system might have to be changed even further.  It\'s not that spawns are rare -- these players (any many more) are simply being pricks for the sport of it.

[Zan]

I agree that this should be fixed .. I \'ve seen at least one other person, Noxide, use that same tactic to steal people\'s monsters, including my own.

[Seytra]

Indeed powerlevelling and KSing have radically increased since the wipe. Also, the number of people systematically exploiting bugs has risen quite high. This is a very sad thing, and it once more proves that the community isn\'t able to regulate itself properly.

As for the people mentioned, Eolius is a bit of a surprise, since I thought he was merely PLing, not lacking decency. Seems like PLing and KSing are close friends.

Anyway, the system must be revised. My proposal is that the only thing that matters is the point where the attack, magic or not, was initiated. I.e., when the attack button was pressed.  This system is simple and it will serve to not priorise any form of attack over another, as it is ATM.

I think that exploiting such a well-known bug should warrant insta-banning (as there can be no doubt that it is exploited by intent). And KSing should, too. There is no reason to have egoistic people like that pollute and destroy the game. :tdown:

[Pestilence]

I\'d say tag him with a warning and then ban him. Just to make sure the person knows it\'s a bug. Ofcourse instant banning could be inniciated if the GM knows the person in question knows about the bug.

PS: only if used repeatedly BTW. Once could just be an accident.

[Nikodemus]

Originally posted by zanzibar
[creature spawns]
[one player starts an attack, the other player starts \"Arrow\" spell from far away]
[the first player hits the creature]
[the second player hits the creature with arrow]
[the first player is forced out of the attack for a minute or so]

the problem is that it is very easy to for mistake here.
Imagine both warrior and wizard start attcking the same monster. Warrior with weapon, wizard with arrow. the time for casting arrow is longer than hitting by a weapon.
So the warrior will hit the monster and then wizard will hit it by arrow and worrior will think the monster has been stolen from him...
there is also thing that people not always start attacking the mob miliseconds after it appear, but sometimes/often 1,2 maybe 3 seconds after it.

EDIT: I\'m suprised nobody thought about it, in this topic, before me

So maybe instead of claiming someone is kill stealing, try to talk with him/her first.

And i agree it would be good if the system for killing monsters would be changed, but i havent seen a game where it has been solved in proper way, and i have seen better solution than it is in PS.

[Zan]

What I have seen is a group of two or more people working together in the hills. One of them is a mage who make sure s/he claims a monster with the above tactic ... then the other one who is usually a normal melee fighter goes to finish said monster off while the mage claims a new monster.

This is done disrespecting other people who were there previously. And those two people kill more monsters than the 4 or 5 others around there together.

Then when I attacked a monster standing near the mage, he was shooting his arrows at another monster further away at this time ... apparently he didn\'t like me claiming a monster nobody was attacking, since after that one I couldn\'t manage to kill one monster in that area anymore. The guy made sure he stole away every creature I tried to hunt down.

With such instances there is no doubt in my eyes.

[Nikodemus]

I agree.
I learned to solve the problem by using the same tactic. I always have time and use it till the little bugger who tried to steal by using summon missile will bored go away.
As being unable to attack somebody else monster is artificial invisible barrier, when forced by unfair behaviour, I use another artificial invisible barrier which is summon missile.  

It is just weird idea that one can\'t attack monster which has been attacked by someone else. Devs should focus on making working system. I always propose the same ways as it is being solved in real world.
Very different persons play PS and there will be always some of them who will abuse rules. The point is to make the game mehanics, so that players can solve these with their characters. Not players have problem, but characters have problem, which they can solve using game mehanics.

I stopped complaining one abusive players as i dont see point in that. I focused on proposing ways to solve it without use of GMs, because they cant all the day solve the same problems.

And one more thing: it is imposible that all players will have fun from playing all the time. It is like in real life, we arent happy all the time. Also recall to yourself how civilized people are at present times, and have worked some ways of solving conflicts. In medieval times it was very different for sure, life was much more not fair. Aren\'t we playing with our character in the fantasy-medieval setting?

[Keyaz]

how about we take out all physical combat completely, happy then?

oh no dont stop there, lets take the world too, ooh and all but two of the races!

hey lets just give up and roleplay in irc, its just the same!

come on its ridiculous that you always whine how someone stole oyur kill, it isn\'t a race! let them powerlevel, then they can leave!

my IC Demarthl can barely survive an encounter with a rat, I don\'t really care, I\'m not trying to be better then everyone else, I\'m building up my character, but in the way you should do, build the mind, i dont see how you can run around all day  obtaining \'kills\' like its an fps and never have a thought about who you are.

if someone steals your prey ask them to stop, if they persist tell a GM if ones available, if the player still persists they get removed.

unfortunately this doesnt work because hardly any of oyu are honest about this, and the ones that are get shunned to the back, really you should all be ashamed of what your doing, go play WoW if you want to do that sort of thing.

[Neryam]

how about we take out all physical combat completely, happy then?

oh no dont stop there, lets take the world too, ooh and all but two of the races!

hey lets just give up and roleplay in irc, its just the same!

Hahah lol..

Wait.. but WoW costs money..   Not that I do these sorta things but

Why is there even the \"You must be grouped to attack blah blah\" thing? What I say is take it off altogether and instead, do exp-per-hit? That way it will eliminate tanking (Strong player helping lvl1 kill Ulbernauts) and kill stealing won\'t really work either! An the loot can only be looted by the person who did the most damage (unless theyre in a group of course) for a time period, then anyone can loot it. :]

[shorty13]

\"I agree that this should be fixed .. I \'ve seen at least one other person, Noxide, use that same tactic to steal people\'s monsters, including my own.\" --Zan

1) I have to admit, Noxide is smart.  Wait until you see waht he has up his sleeve next, you guys will really hate him.  (not that i am friends with him, I just haven\'t really had any bad encoutners.)

2) When someone does the arrow glyph, I am pretty sure neither of the players can attack for at least a minute.  Then, It is whoever hits the creature first.   But it is very annoying.

[DaveG]

1)  At least kill stealing with magic is no longer a bug exploitation.  It\'s just really annoying, but it\'s not cheating anymore.

2)  I think the kill guarding system needs some work, though.  It needs to be redone to allow people to just attack things, without any artificial hindrances.  The biggest reason this is needed, is because it\'s currently impossible to assist someone under attack, who\'s not in your party.  Other things can be done to make looting and experience fair, than just locking people out.

[provisionist1]

....and there are threads saying the only way to be an evil character is purely through roleplay. What\'s going to happen when thieving is implemented? \"Oh, woe is me, somebody robbed me of all my tria, I think his name was mxysptlk, GM\'s... please ban him. Whaaa.\"

I agree that it is rude, but seriously, I can completely understand that them stealing kills is part of their character roleplaying and evil person. Maybe instead of whining on the forums, you should go up to them and challenge them or talk (rp) to one of the many Lawful Good guilds that seem to plague Planeshift with boasts of helping the needy. Well, maybe they should help by tracking these guys down and filling their windows with x has challenged you to a battle, do you accept? Ok, to implement this, perhaps the option to automatically reject challenges should be removed, but still...

This is not the type of problem devs should have to deal with, it can be dealt with fully within the rp of Planeshift.

My thoughts,

Xirius

[ramlambmoo]

Gah, what a bunch of whiners.  Not really, but some of you people just need to take a step back and put this in perspective.  To start with, It\'s almost impossible to steal as kill, as it is.  All you can do is steal the right to kill something.  Secondly, see this from their perspective.  Technically, they could claim you are stealing their kill.  In reality, no-one is stealing; you\'re just competing for the right to kill it.  If the other person gets there first, then wait for next time, or go kill something else.  I think the current system is very fair and balanced, when the worst that can happen is someone else gets to put all the effort into killing something instead of you.

It is just weird idea that one can\'t attack monster which has been attacked by someone else. Devs should focus on making working system. I always propose the same ways as it is being solved in real world.
Very different persons play PS and there will be always some of them who will abuse rules. The point is to make the game mehanics, so that players can solve these with their characters. Not players have problem, but characters have problem, which they can solve using game mehanics.  

When what you suggested was actually implemented, kill stealing in the proper sense was rampant and a very bad problem.  Someone could spend a considerable amount of time defeating a monster, only for someone else to come along at the last mintue and gain all the experience and loot for it.  I\'m pretty sure any player who was around when CB first came out and remember the limited loots and massive kill stealing that went on, will agree that the current situtation is far more prefferable.

If we compare the two systems, you have one in where Players can activly \"steal\" the good work done by others and reap the reward exculsivly for themselves.  In the other, the only thing you can \"steal\" is the right to put in the effort to defeat a monster.  Given the fact that there are now many spawn points (not always enough for everyone, but quite a few) then I think it\'s pretty apparent that being forced to move a few meters to another spawn point is far less of a problem then someone being able to come along and take away your good work.

Also, with an open combat system, the ones who generally get the kills are the \'power levellers\'.  Since, if two people A and B are competing to kill a monster, the percentage of kills and thus reward that each gets is directly related to their skill level, and how much damage they hit for.  However, in a system whereby only one person or a group may kill a monster at a time, who gets the reward is determined by who can hit first, and thus other factors, like their reaction speed, connection, and often chance come into play.

I agree that it is rude, but seriously, I can completely understand that them stealing kills is part of their character roleplaying and evil person. Maybe instead of whining on the forums, you should go up to them and challenge them or talk (rp) to one of the many Lawful Good guilds that seem to plague Planeshift with boasts of helping the needy. Well, maybe they should help by tracking these guys down and filling their windows with x has challenged you to a battle, do you accept?  

An excellent suggestion.  You might not like people \"stealing\" your kills, but realistically, they have a right to.  For the game to maintain some notion of having differing alignments there had to be some mechanism for evil players to, well be evil.  Obviously, a comprimise is needed to balance between their right to be evil and griefing, but I honestly think that the situation you\'re putting forward isnt that bad.  I mean, it\'s much better then It used to be, so quit complaining.

if someone steals your prey ask them to stop, if they persist tell a GM if ones available, if the player still persists they get removed.  

Really? Since when has stealing kills been against the rules?  I would have thought that there would have been an announcement if it had been.  The only rule I can think of it breaking is the all purpose \"disturbing the peace\" rule that gets dragged out anytime people disagree about something.  Kill stealing, as long as it isn\'t exploiting bugs, and is not done in a way meant to be offensive OOC, isnt against any rules that im aware of.

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by Nikodemus

Originally posted by zanzibar
[creature spawns]
[one player starts an attack, the other player starts \"Arrow\" spell from far away]
[the first player hits the creature]
[the second player hits the creature with arrow]
[the first player is forced out of the attack for a minute or so]

the problem is that it is very easy to for mistake here.
Imagine both warrior and wizard start attcking the same monster. Warrior with weapon, wizard with arrow. the time for casting arrow is longer than hitting by a weapon.
So the warrior will hit the monster and then wizard will hit it by arrow and worrior will think the monster has been stolen from him...
there is also thing that people not always start attacking the mob miliseconds after it appear, but sometimes/often 1,2 maybe 3 seconds after it.

EDIT: I\'m suprised nobody thought about it, in this topic, before me

So maybe instead of claiming someone is kill stealing, try to talk with him/her first.

And i agree it would be good if the system for killing monsters would be changed, but i havent seen a game where it has been solved in proper way, and i have seen better solution than it is in PS.

The problem with the mechanics is that someone can be standing there swinging at a creature for as long as they like.  Until they land a hit, anyone can start a spell targetting that creature.  Immediately after the casting starts, the warrior player might land a hit and start doing damage to the creature.  However, once the spell resolves successfully, the creature is \"taken away\" by the spell-caster.  Try it sometime with a willing friend to see it work.

And actually, I do talk with them, and they usually admit to it and cary on.

Some examples:

(16:52:47) Ogu says: Mitaki, that\'s stealing :-(
(16:53:00) Tmed tells you: better
(16:53:02) Eolius says: Mitaki is not nice what you are doing
(16:53:10) Eolius says: Mitaki is not nice what you are doing
(16:53:18) Ogu says: Why do you steal hunt with magic?
(16:54:06) Eolius says: we groupped on 1 out of 3 glads
(16:55:52) Shalmaneser says: this belongs to you
(16:56:29) Eolius says: you won\'t stop?


People are even proud of it:

Shalmaneser says: Cir, you are reported for kill stealing.
Cir says: sure go ahead..
Cir says: because you stole mine [This is not true, of course.  I have -13 mana, so I couldn\'t cast a spell even if I tried.]
Cir says: well tahstw hat you doing Shal isn\'t it, i am just trainign my magic
Cir says: and i am ina group
Shalmaneser says: So you admit to stealing it with arrow?
Cir says: thats not stealing than i am ina group



Eolius isn\'t perfect either.  He did it to me one, and when I told him that I could get a GM, he told me to \"[F] off\", and a whole bunch of other nasty things.

Noxide does it too -- his pattern is to stand in the center of the arena, and just send arrows out at every gladiator.  Then he comes in and kills them before the server \"resets\" that the gladiator is being attacked.

My question is, with so many gladiators around, why the heck do people have to steal kills?  Don\'t they have anything better to do now that pretty much everything drops loot?

[Jonalber]

I have to admit I snatched a kill from someone and I didn\'t even know I did it until he pointed out I was being a jerk.

I hate to be banned for being dumb  

I was on at the fork in the road - didn\'t see anyone else except for one player who looked to be at the load transition point.  The resident Rogue was heading toward him so I cut loose with the missiles on the Rogue.  Thought I was helping - drawing off the Rogue from a loading player.  

Turns out I took his kill.  He complained.  I said sorry.  I offered to \"soften en up a bit\" and let him have the kills.  Worked fine (until he went afk - then when I said \"all yours\" he just stood there and got nuked - doh!).