Author Topic: could someone explain  (Read 12939 times)

Kwip

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« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2005, 05:26:59 pm »
Drey I have no idea what you are talking about but I want to go too, just make sure there are plenty of lemons which won\'t be a problem as I know there are many scattered around on the floor here.

r.guppy, do not feel to bad about spelling; I who\'s only known language is English can still not after 17 years spell(or correctly use) the language.  During most of my posts I have to go look up words because I have no idea how to spell them correctly.
Lurking in that space between -             \The\____
 trying to see what is off both ends -        -----\Mad\_____
  but the confusion and chaos looks so fun -     ------\Bard\
   that I must now jump down twixt them both and dance the dance

r.guppy

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« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2005, 06:08:19 pm »
I order my fleet to move in and ready cannons with Oxford English Dictionaries , and send two of my  fastest ships ahead to warn the poor Koalas :)
« Last Edit: October 07, 2005, 06:10:54 pm by r.guppy »

Seytra

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« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2005, 07:14:59 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by r.guppy
 Point 1: Strength has little to do with actual fighting, on the other hand it is very useful for a miner who wishes to carry more of a load, also very handy for a hunter to carry more, so to assume I am a PLer  based on that fact alone, shows to me you are ignorant of what stats do for you in game.

For what it\'s worth:
If someone has maxed STR, then it\'s likely they will be working to max the other as well.
Even more so if that someone indirectly complains about them not being listed on the wall of shame.

Edit: I do acknowledge that you probably are not the PL I mistook you for, and I commend that you are striving to improve. /Edit
Quote
Originally posted by r.guppy
 Point 2: Many I have talked to in game have found that the server stats page is very useful, to see how well you are doing in regards to hours on-line, who to avoid in Duels situations (and before you put you foot in it again my DP is - 40), and to see who is doing well in Adviser Points, so if you need some simple advice and they are online you can (tells) them for advice if no one answers you on help channel .

Obviously I understand nothing of your motives. I see absolutely no reason \"to see how well you are doing in regards to hours on-line\". What if you are online only a bit? Will you let the client run while asleep to rise on the stats page? Is there something like \"doing well\" or \"doing badly\" with respect to online time?
The duelling point of yours might be a bit understandable for me, but still I see no point in it. Why do you duel? If not to gain DP, why would it be required to avoid the so called \"duelling champs\", as you will know after one duel, anyway?
The AP thing might even be OK, though such a ranking incites AP grinding, which at least initially lead to problems IIRC. Thouch they are one of the (few) parts of that page that don\'t really bother me.
Quote
Originally posted by r.guppy
 So to sum up; if you still think this should be scrapped then so be it,  but I would ask you to do a simple poll to see if indeed players use it and if they do; how to improve it. Do not kill something just because you do not like it, after all we are here to help, as you are.

What IMO may stay on that page is
1) the list of who is online and
2) the list of AP

Everything else has to go. The DP have to be completely removed from the game, and thus have no place in the ingame menus like the stats screen. Likewise, the AP have no place in there.

@ Verrliit:

The people who like to PL have so many other places to do just that that there is no reason to have them in PS.
I see no reason why we would need to cope with them. This is an MMORPG in the literal sense and original meaning of the abbreviation, not a MULARP (Multi User Levelling And Ranking Platform).

Like when trying to play tennis in a football match, \"player\" does not equal \"player\", and by no means does every player add \"a unique contribution to the flavor of the world\", and most definitely \"the more the variety the better\" is not true. There are more than just a few \"contributions\" that severely detract from the game, not add to it, even some that superficially resemble RP. There are players that don\'t fit / belong into any game, why should PS even think of accommodating or even accepting them? Just like the football team not allowing the tennis player in, PS should not allow non-RPers in.

The people who do both are mostly acceptable.

By no means must the wall of shame be expanded.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2005, 07:23:17 pm by Seytra »

LigH

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« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2005, 07:49:24 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by r.guppy
and send two of my  fastest ships ahead to warn the poor Koalas :)

Aye, sir!  

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Askr

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« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2005, 09:16:54 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Seytra
The people who like to PL have so many other places to do just that that there is no reason to have them in PS.
I see no reason why we would need to cope with them. This is an MMORPG in the literal sense and original meaning of the abbreviation, not a MULARP (Multi User Levelling And Ranking Platform).


(snipped)


Quote
PS should not allow non-RPers in.

The people who do both are mostly acceptable.

By no means must the wall of shame be expanded.


How do you propose to weed out the PLers from the PRers during sign up?

On a side note, I have seen a lot of talk about RP vs. PL, but to be honest with you I don\'t encounter that many RPers (in comparison) in game.  Sometimes I catch a mix of RP and OOC chat, but rarely do I catch any strict RPers in groups or solo.  This was actually one of the earlier drawbacks to this game for me and my wife and to an extent still is.

As it stands, my wife and I are forced to go through the motions of battling monsters and hanging out looking for others that are more RP oriented.  I\'m not a PLer, but at this point I\'m leaning more towards that than RPer because of the lack of options, variety, and other strictly RP characters encountered in game.  Perhaps the issue isn\'t that there are PLers, but that there isn\'t enough of a presence of RPers.  If power levelling is role-played it shouldn\'t be an issue, but frankly I don\'t see a whole lot of anything being actually role-played.
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Farren Kutter

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« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2005, 10:14:41 pm »
Umm.... How the heck do all threads seem to wind up going on about PLing and RPing? Bit off topic if you ask me...




r.guppy

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« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2005, 10:46:31 pm »
not really second post is abut PLers, and as i started this thread i hope it is allowed to continue.
 
 As I feel to air a problem is a step towards solving it. :)
« Last Edit: October 07, 2005, 10:59:30 pm by r.guppy »

Verrliit

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« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2005, 11:35:56 pm »
Seytra,

I would like to point out some things that are true:

1.  The players that spend the most time in-game know more about what is going on with RP in PS, than anyone else.

2.  Most of the RP is not visible.  At least ninty percent of it happens in Tell, and in Group chat.  Unless you are involved in it, you have no idea it is there.  I often stand for hours at a time, mechanically bashing an NPC, while I frantically juggle Tells, sometimes five conversations deep... and those I talk to, are doing the same thing.

To anyone that I am not talking to, it looks like all I am doing is power-leveling.

The RP is there.  It is rich, creative and passionate, and only now, is it slowly starting to flourish again, after the wipe almost entirely destroyed it.

3.  RP is not handed to a player.  If you want to RP, you have to make it happen to you, find others to play with, and think of things to do.

There is not a tourguide for the sights and features of the world.  There is no activity calendar or signup sheet for hit-and-run the Ulber.

We could use things like that in the game, though, if you would like to volunteer.

---------

So Seytra, instead of talking about there being a lack of RP in the forums, how about spending more time in-game and taking a bigger part in it?  Janner and I could use the help.


Sincerely,

The Dark Lady
Verrliit
« Last Edit: October 07, 2005, 11:44:35 pm by Verrliit »
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Karyuu

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« Reply #23 on: October 07, 2005, 11:38:28 pm »
Since when are /tells considered RP? Besides whispers, of course.

Do you actually know how much Seytra RPs? Because I do ;) Might want to cool down that look-down, Verliit.
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stfrn

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« Reply #24 on: October 07, 2005, 11:43:35 pm »
I can somewhat understand where you are coming from Verrliit, I often test bugs by sitting there doign the same action over and over, while doing many things in hte background, so I can see how a player could be spending the same effort with others. And there is no way for others to tell that is what you are doing. But, as has been pointed out, /tells are about as OOC as playing another game and calling in planeshift. \"Real\" roleplay should be done in person. Tells should be to coordinte things, like \"ok you are getting close, so pretend to not see me for a bit...\"

Quote

The RP is there. It is rich, creative and passionate, and only now, is it slowly starting to flourish again, after the wipe almost entirely destroyed it.

May I ask how? Sure guilds needed to be recreaed, and people did not have the items or stats they wanted, but considering no one has the items or stats they really want for RP, that should not matter.
player -> gm -> dev -> bum

Askr

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« Reply #25 on: October 08, 2005, 12:11:35 am »
Quote
Originally posted by stfrn
I can somewhat understand where you are coming from Verrliit, I often test bugs by sitting there doign the same action over and over, while doing many things in hte background, so I can see how a player could be spending the same effort with others. And there is no way for others to tell that is what you are doing. But, as has been pointed out, /tells are about as OOC as playing another game and calling in planeshift. \"Real\" roleplay should be done in person. Tells should be to coordinte things, like \"ok you are getting close, so pretend to not see me for a bit...\"


And here is the issue.  If the people most frequently online are roleplaying in /tell or /group then there is nothing visible to the masses but PLing.  You will never have a predominantly RP oriented group of players, because little to no RP is visible to the masses.

I must agree with Stfrn, if PS is intended to be an RP realm then all, and I can\'t stress that enough, RPing should be done in person with the characters performing the actions as the situation demands.  Otherwise, we have another hack-n-slash game with the side benefit of a box for separate chat/text RP.
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r.guppy

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« Reply #26 on: October 08, 2005, 12:23:32 am »
i have gone back through my log and this is first example at a attempt at RP.
(20:49:34) Janner says: the magic shop for gold milady
(20:49:44) Jilarie says: where
(20:49:57) Jilarie says: show me
(20:50:11) Janner says: long way from here milady
(20:50:28) Jilarie says: where is the gold
(20:50:50) Janner says: have you trained in mining milady
(20:51:00) Jilarie says: not yet
(20:51:19) Janner says: have you been out of town milady
(20:51:37) Jilarie says: yes
(20:51:56) Jilarie says: i died
(20:51:57) Janner says: have you been to main city milady
(20:52:03) Jilarie says: no
(20:52:17) Jilarie says: show me how to get there
(20:52:23) Jilarie says: please
(20:52:35) Janner says: i will lead you there as i am going there now if you want milady
(20:57:30) Jilarie says: do i just have to folow the path
(20:57:44) Janner says: yes milady
(20:57:50) Janner says: ready
(20:57:59) Jilarie says: ty a lot for the help
(20:58:13) Janner says: glad to help
(20:58:15) Jilarie says: se ya
(20:58:44) Jilarie says: are you going to
(20:58:57) Janner says: yes milady
(21:00:19) Jilarie says: you are a real jentilman
(21:00:36) Janner says: thank you
(21:00:45) Janner says: milady
(21:03:11) Jilarie says: lets rest
(21:03:14) Snoin says: hi
(21:03:15) Janner says: this is magic shop
(21:03:38) Janner hello sir
(21:03:44) Snoin says: I\'m new and looking for a place to mine, I guess
(21:04:06) Janner says: gold here sir
(21:04:40) Snoin says: ah
(21:04:55) Snoin says: ok, don\'t even have the skill for it yet
(21:05:13) Janner says: Harnequist trains mining
(21:05:18) Snoin says: thanks anyways. I guess I\'ll go back to rat killing for a while.
(21:07:58) You tell Jilarie: were did you go milady
at this point milady crashed.

on several accessions i have had long conversations with lady varlliit over tells and have gained a great deal from her for which i am very grateful.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2005, 12:39:24 am by r.guppy »

LigH

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« Reply #27 on: October 08, 2005, 12:50:50 am »
Just another example of \"excessive\" play:

I\'m a member for just one month now.

a) I could already develop my stats mostly beyond 100, and some skills beyond 20.

b) I\'m involved in quests like \"the Purrties\" or \"the Wildfires\", manage event dates and publish pictures, lead newbies around, give starting weapons away (e.g. daggers).

I wouldn\'t like being reduced to only a).

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Verrliit

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« Reply #28 on: October 08, 2005, 02:45:56 am »
Karyuu.  

No, I am not looking down upon Seytra in any way,

Instead, I am pointing to where to find the RP that I know about, and inviting him to help me as I RP my little furry butt off.

You can call Tell a whisper all you want to, but it is functionally equivalent to a multiline cellphone, and is pretty universally used as such...


Stfrn:

All channels of communication are about the same level of IC to OOC, because that is what players do, it matters little which channel it is, they are speaking to one another.

Tells tend, if anything, to be more RP than any other chat, because if something is important, or private, and you are too distant to group, or your target is already grouped, you use tell to say it, and that will come up more often with RP than otherwise.  Most of the OOC chat is found either in group, or if it is a small guild, in Guild chat.

The most common tell, next to \"Crap, the lag got me killed again. I\'m gonna go train.\" is probably, \"Hi, I\'m back.  What news?\" or \"Hi, welcome back, this is the news\".

As to how RP was almost destroyed by the wipe:

Players at the third extreme that I mentioned before, who do both PL and RP at the same time, are the ones who lead, who perform, who define the RP.  They are the storytellers.

The social positions that help define those characters, who are the leaders of the playing community, almost always involves having extreme leveling, which commands respect, and attracts attention.

When you busted everyone down to zero, all of these were forced to make a mad dash for recovery.  They have to have a substantial lead on the crowd, in order to exist as characters, and continue their ongoing RP stories.

There is a balance point, an equilibrium, where an average player will give up on leveling, and go look for something else to do.

Almost all of those who are leaders and storytellers have no choice whatsoever.  They have to be past that point, to be unusual, to attract attention, to be respected and to have authority.

It is no accident, but hard-driven effort, that placed almost every one of the most deadly weapons in the hands of these leaders.  Other players instinctively respect those who worked so hard to obtain them.

So all of these storytellers, who are the source of the RP in PS, put their stories on hold and stopped doing almost any RP.  For over a month after the wipe, they became fanatical, sleepless, cranky super-PLers and beat themselves bloody with heartbreaking determination against the limits of endurance and what it was possible to achieve in the framework of the mechanics.

Almost all of them considered quitting.  They told me so.  Some of them did quit.

That point of equilibrium, where the average player started looking for something else besides leveling to do, was not reached for a very long time.  Now that it finally has been, the RP is beginning to resume.  

\"But what about the Guilds?\" You asked.

Guilds are built by RP, not the other way around.  They do not create it, the storytellers do.

The friendships, fights and love affairs, relationships and explorations that continue, even outside the framework of the guilds; the stories that players create for themselves or join to be a part of, are what have value emotionally, and are why RP players play.

RP is at the individual character level.  By definition.

The wipe destroyed my guild, The Twin Blades of Arete, which once had numbered almost thirty.

Most members were Mac users, and as such, doomed to be weeks and months behind those present at the starting line.  They can\'t pick up where they left off, no matter what they do.  To the best of my knowledge, only three still play.  The rest have abandoned PS altogether.


World balance is very different from play balance.


Sincerely,

The Dark Lady
Verrliit.
The Devs have invited us to play in their sandbox. The GMs keep us from spoiling each other's fun.  Be respectful, and thank them often.



Courtesy cannot be imposed by force.  Lead by example.  Be elegant.  - Dr. H. Lecter

stfrn

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« Reply #29 on: October 08, 2005, 03:01:15 am »
The lack of Mac users I can understand, and I am trying as much as I can without a mac to support mac development.

As for mixed players rushing out to PL and neglecting RP, well, wasn\'t there mistake? If they truely were seeking a balance, they could do that still the same. So there is no argument there for the wipe destroying anything, except non-RP material.

What I do get from what you have said however, is that there does not seem to be enough rewards for anyhting besides blantent killing. Craft skills have been sorely neglected, but even more, there is not very much rewarding of good RP. I will see what can be done there to stop the discouragemnt of Roleplay, the entire point of this game.
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