could someone explain

[Esserfin]

Originally posted by Karyuu
In some ways it is a battle, in others it isn\'t. I\'m dropping the discussion now because it\'s just eaten too much out of me, and others are capable of carrying on just as well, for as long as this thread is allowed to continue.

As you want

[Esserfin]

Is a pleasure to meet you here Lady Seytra

Originally posted by Seytra
@ Esserfin:
The degree to which the killing is RP or OOC is quite a touchy subject. I have come to the conclusion that for a great many chars, the amount of killing they do is much more than would be realistic for RP. And even if the amount os fitting, the targets almost never are. Let\'s face it: everyone camps the MOB that they can kill without having to make long regeneration breaks or take potions while still gaining the most PP and if possible good loot.

Uhmm...yes you are right. I\'m sure that normally no one can kill hundreds of enemies and to be able to move yet
But i remember when the stamina system has been introduced:
at the beginning the loss of stamina due to character activity was very fast. Players didn\'t like it and devs changed it.

Originally posted by Seytra Like the very popular rogue in the forest or some of the mercs / gladiators in the arena while realistically they would be hunting animals, but since these animals are either not available or the closest thing (rats) doesn\'t provide the desired loot and PP gains, hunters instead \"hunt\" for mercenaries in the arena.

I know some characters that goes to hunt in the wild often (tefusangs, trepors or consumers valley) and are characters with high stats and skills now

Originally posted by Seytra [/ITherefore AFAICS ~80% of all killing done ingame is OOC. As I said, since the wipe my actual skill levels are far off what I RP (And I RP by far not maxed skills or stats!), so when there is no RP going on etc. I spend a bit of time camping as well (usually I get fed up with it pretty quickly), in order to get my stats to match up with my RP. IMO, both must align if possible, since stats are supplemental to RP so that no super chars get RP\'d. Still RP takes precedence. Therefore, I consider almost 100% of the killing I do to be completely OOC. IOW, from an IC POV, I am not even in the arena or at whatever spawn point unless in very rare circumstances. Once an RP opportunity announces itself (usually via /tell), I stop the camping and go to RP.

I can undestand your point of view but that is because of the role you chosed to play.
As you can imagine no one can be a *real* mighty warrior before to have high stats and combat skills (and let me say that i\'m not a maxed character).
As you know sometimes someone lead an ulber in Hydlaa (and is something i really dislike)...well some time ago i was heading back from Ojaveda (or maybe from some hunting in the wild) and i\'ve met an ulbernaut into the city. There were a few corpses on the ground because some citizens were already got killed by that guardian moved from his natural place (and so really enraged).
I\'ve wielded my weapons and after a long battle and some potions of healing i killed him. The streets were safe again and people around said \'thanks\' to me.
Can you undestand my point of view?

[Verrliit]

Originally posted by Seytra
Hmm, the mail idea has been brought up in the wishlist forum in another context, and it by itself is something I am in favor of.

Agreed.  An in-game way to leave messages for players that are not on, or too busy to talk, is a basic function that is needed.

Seytra
However, the only real benefit of /tell is the ability to co-ordinate things OOC-ly so that RP can run smoother, like arranging to \"happen to\" stumble accross oeach other (compensating for having to log off etc.) or clarifying things that may be unclear but relevant for the own char\'s reaction without spoiling it by an OOC say. It may be that a player requires additional information about another player\'s char to ensure that the own RP isn\'t flawed, etc..

Disagree strongly.  The bandwidth limit of chat is about 20 WPM, and in the case of bad lag, a three word sentence can take over a minute to be seen, and recovery from that glitch in the conversation may take five minutes more.  It takes further time for a character to move to the same location as another.  

Now that those with fur spawn on the other side of the world, they begin to grow apart from other races.  Only those who stay in one place, or who have very few friends, can manage to have relationships with non-guldmembers that do not have tails, without using Tell for RP.

The plaza now stands empty more often, a good chunk of the action has moved away.  For urgent meetings to which a furred one is a party, and for Enki that have lovers and friends without tails, the DR is now the busiest meeting place.

Seytra
@ Esserfin:
The degree to which the killing is RP or OOC is quite a touchy subject. I have come to the conclusion that for a great many chars, the amount of killing they do is much more than would be realistic for RP. And even if the amount os fitting, the targets almost never are. Let\'s face it: everyone camps the MOB that they can kill without having to make long regeneration breaks or take potions while still gaining the most PP and if possible good loot.
Like the very popular rogue in the forest or some of the mercs / gladiators in the arena while realistically they would be hunting animals, but since these animals are either not available or the closest thing (rats) doesn\'t provide the desired loot and PP gains, hunters instead \"hunt\" for mercenaries in the arena.

True.
Players compete.  They will do their best to use all available resources to maximum effect.

Seytra
Therefore AFAICS ~80% of all killing done ingame is OOC. As I said, since the wipe my actual skill levels are far off what I RP (And I RP by far not maxed skills or stats!), so when there is no RP going on etc. I spend a bit of time camping as well (usually I get fed up with it pretty quickly), in order to get my stats to match up with my RP. IMO, both must align if possible, since stats are supplemental to RP so that no super chars get RP\'d. Still RP takes precedence. Therefore, I consider almost 100% of the killing I do to be completely OOC. IOW, from an IC POV, I am not even in the arena or at whatever spawn point unless in very rare circumstances. Once an RP opportunity announces itself (usually via /tell), I stop the camping and go to RP.

I agree with you that stats and skills need to match with RP.  I disagree that there should not be superstars.  

This is my first online game, and first character.  I have only been in-game since June 15, 2005.

My RP is extreme.   I have generated ten meg of chat log files so far.  Almost all of it is of things I was a party to.  I avoid the chaos and noise of the Plaza.

I have achieved a small measure of fame, without shouting, \"Everybody look at me!\" or leading a Guild, as others do.  

I am competitive.  I set out to level, using every possible advantage and strategy.  

It was not for the joy of mindless bashing that I did so, nor am I a duellist.

It was to gain a respect for effort, that would make a total stranger who had never heard of me, ask to to hear what I might say, and then perhaps, want to become part of my story.

I show what is possible, and others seek me out.  It has been for advice on whether to propose marriage, how to combat a rival, how to reach a goal or understanding, and to deal with hurt or anger.  Others simply want to share their joy, their art, and play with me.

Yes, I am the thing you do not want, a super character.  But I am complete, with loves and fears, virtues, flaws and weaknesses.  

And I will create art, and be respected, regardless of whether I am loved, or hated.

The thing you call PLing was simply to get your attention.


           The Dark Lady

Invited, though I\'ve had my fill.
My name remains unguilded still.

Instead I watch the stories flow,
in ways that others cannot know.

I reach, I grasp the unseen choice,
and hone the power of my voice.

To touch the paths that lives may take,
and leave Dark Wisdom in my wake.


I am,

The Dark Lady
Verrliit

[Seytra]

Originally posted by Esserfin
Is a pleasure to meet you here Lady Seytra

Sadly, like several other players, we don\'t seem to meet ingame anymore due to RL constraints.

Originally posted by Esserfin
Uhmm...yes you are right. I\'m sure that normally no one can kill hundreds of enemies and to be able to move yet
But i remember when the stamina system has been introduced:
at the beginning the loss of stamina due to character activity was very fast. Players didn\'t like it and devs changed it.

I know that. However, this can be justified in a way. Granted, it is on the strong side of things, but realistically, in medieval times, people would be a lot of better trained for walking and running than they are today. Also, when you carry loads, the stamina drain is quite big, so this fits in well with the remaining system that also is ont he strong side of things, like HP regeneration (instead of loss and dying), etc.. These things are hard to RP, and realistic RP therefore is necessarily far off from the game mechanics in this case as well. This is why in RP, a broken leg takes, even aided with magic, several RP days to heal, while in terms of game mechanics, a char can regenerate by itself from 1HP to max within less than a single game day. This is necessary to allow for the fast paced gameplay expected (and required) in PC games, due to the limited amount of time one is able to spend playing them. Overall the stamina regeneration is less unrealistic as the HP regneneration.
I think RP should follow the more realistic approach.

Originally posted by Verrliit
Disagree strongly.  The bandwidth limit of chat is about 20 WPM, and in the case of bad lag, a three word sentence can take over a minute to be seen, and recovery from that glitch in the conversation may take five minutes more.  It takes further time for a character to move to the same location as another.  

I don\'t see your point. The same \"bandwidth limit\" applies to /tell as does to /say. Yes, in /tell sentences tend to be longer, because the opposite end will just have to wait for you. This could be regarded as impolite behaviour, but whatever.
Also, /tell messages get delayed and mixed up just as badly due to the lag as any othe rmessage, so there is no difference as well.
The delay is independant of the text length, except if the text is longer than about 1000 characters (since then it would have to be split into separate packets that might in the worst case end up having a three minute delay each), which is highly unlikely.

Originally posted by Verrliit
Now that those with fur spawn on the other side of the world, they begin to grow apart from other races.  Only those who stay in one place, or who have very few friends, can manage to have relationships with non-guldmembers that do not have tails, without using Tell for RP.

Yes, this happens, but you said you were abusing /tell to \"RP\" all the time. Regardless, I travel between Ojavedan and Hydlaa a lot, and it does take only a few minuts RL time. And no, I never abuse death to get back to Hydlaa faster. The simple solution to the problem is to merely not get killed. Getting killed all the time is so unrealistic it hurts.

Originally posted by Verrliit
The plaza now stands empty more often, a good chunk of the action has moved away.  For urgent meetings to which a furred one is a party, and for Enki that have lovers and friends without tails, the DR is now the busiest meeting place.

Yes, the DR is becoming increasingly abused for duelling. And I am even more severely disappointed to hear that you abuse it for \"RP\" as well. This is abuse of death teleporting and disregarding of the settings. :tdown:

Originally posted by Verrliit

Seytra
True.
Players compete.  They will do their best to use all available resources to maximum effect.

Which is why it must be ensured that the maximum possible effect is the one intended as default. And this is not the case. By the sound of it, you even condone abuse of game mechanics to leve faster. This is not tolerable.
Furthermore, there is no realism in that:

Originally posted by Esserfin
I know some characters that goes to hunt in the wild often (tefusangs, trepors or consumers valley) and are characters with high stats and skills now

Yes, they do. However, hunting for Trepors and consumers is, from an IC POV, not someting worthwhile. Yes, they drop loot. However, the prices for that loot don\'t correspond to the ectual value of the loot at all. They are set to that to cater to the players constantly wanting to loot things off all MOBs. A Trepor feeler should sell for almost nothing, like a consumer leg.
Fact is they\'re killing not for realism, but for completely OOC reasons, and this is not justifiable, and most definitely nothing worth being respected in any way. This is an RP game, not another mindless slaughtering game.

Originally posted by Verrliit
I agree with you that stats and skills need to match with RP.  I disagree that there should not be superstars.  

Please clarify what you refer to as \"superstars\". The way I see it, you mean godlike chars. The way I see your char, it is full of insanely high and completely overpowered skills, both implemented ones (like fighting) and made up ones (like \"seer\"). I am not sure to which degree this interpretation matches the fact, but it smells like something that is called \"Power Play\" (not to be confused with PL) in P&P RPGs, in which the PCs are godlike in comparison with each problem and opponent they face. This is not acceptable in RP.

Originally posted by Verrliit
This is my first online game, and first character.  I have only been in-game since June 15, 2005.

My RP is extreme.   I have generated ten meg of chat log files so far.  Almost all of it is of things I was a party to.  I avoid the chaos and noise of the Plaza.

Obviously I cannot verify the amount of actual RP contained in that, but I\'ll give you that this is quite an amount. But know that my chat logs are of similar size, though my ingame presence dates back some months before yours. Without implying anything about you, I prefer quality over quantity, and as such have not only shunned the plaza, but also all \"RP\" things that weren\'t real RP, like \"funny\" \"RP\" or hardly IC things.
As you see, figures tell almost nothing. In fact, they leave out almost all of the really important factirs, so why do you still insist on bringing them into the discussion?

Originally posted by Verrliit
I have achieved a small measure of fame, without shouting, \"Everybody look at me!\" or leading a Guild, as others do.  

I am competitive.  I set out to level, using every possible advantage and strategy.  

This sounds very much like the too familiar try to phrase \"exploiting of game mechanics\" in an way that may make it look acceptable to the causal reader. This IMNSHO detracts almost all respect from you.

Also know that the people I respect and enjoy RPing with are by far not the ones who shout a lot or at all, and while there is the odd guild leader, they are by far not the majority.

Originally posted by Verrliit
It was not for the joy of mindless bashing that I did so, nor am I a duellist.

It was to gain a respect for effort, that would make a total stranger who had never heard of me, ask to to hear what I might say, and then perhaps, want to become part of my story.

If your effort is tainted by cheating, then all respect gained is unjustified. Even if your grinding efforts were not abusive, this sort of respect and fame is something given only due to the misconception of the other players that this is a MULARP, not an (MMO)RPG.

Originally posted by Verrliit
I show what is possible, and others seek me out.  It has been for advice on whether to propose marriage, how to combat a rival, how to reach a goal or understanding, and to deal with hurt or anger.  Others simply want to share their joy, their art, and play with me.

Yes, I am the thing you do not want, a super character.  But I am complete, with loves and fears, virtues, flaws and weaknesses.  

And I will create art, and be respected, regardless of whether I am loved, or hated.

The thing you call PLing was simply to get your attention.

Somehow I have the impression you have quite a high image of yourself that in more than one part seems quite unjustified to me. And a whole lot of superstition on top of that. :tdown:

Originally posted by Verrliit
           The Dark Lady

Invited, though I\'ve had my fill.
My name remains unguilded still.

Instead I watch the stories flow,
in ways that others cannot know.

I reach, I grasp the unseen choice,
and hone the power of my voice.

To touch the paths that lives may take,
and leave Dark Wisdom in my wake.


I am,

The Dark Lady
Verrliit

This is not an RP forum, therefore this sort of thing is not supposed to clutter things up here. Also, everyone knows from your forum name who you are, there is no need to put it beneath every post. Put it in your sig if you must.

[Valbrandr]

Ok.. I was about to post about an hour or so ago.. so I am going to continuely update this one so I dont lose everything once again .  But on with what I was saying :

To all who take advantage of PS bugs to power level:

I agree with nearly everything Seytra states.  If you consistenly take advantage of bugs to level then you are a cheater for one... but to all who do, and I have no idea who is all doing this nor will I point fingers, you will receive none of the respect you think you deserve.  Truly it is worse than just being a PLer... is you are a PLer who cheats.... hence why we need wipes until the battle system is completely fixed... though I could never figure out why some monsters would never fight back.  I did notice that sometimes the NPC would stop if you moved in and out of their range and then you can kill it freely.  

Classifications:

I believe there are three classes of players not counting hybrids of more than one of the three classes:

Roleplayer (RP) - This should be an understood term of course.  

Power Levelers (PL) - Also should be understood but I will give a few thought of my own:  (PS PLer) Someone who didnt bother to read the story/ history, races and didnt join the forums until the server was down (I didnt join the forums right away either )... People more into physically developing their character then anything else and may not even know what RP is.

Finesse Player (FP) - For those of you unaware... there is a third classification .. or atleast I will say there is .  The Finesse players are a bit different.  I dont know of as many in online gaming... most that I know are primarily involved with console games.  But they play to disprove rules in a way.  Its about staying at a lower level and still accomplishing whatever... conserving time and being efficient to the utmost degree or atleast attempt to continuely get better and learn tactics for every situation.  Its about the challenge.

I hope that explains it a bit.  I have always been a Finesse player...  In my eyes it is the opposite of what a PLer is... though still not any better because that doesnt mean they are or do RP.  When I came here, I didnt have a character story and mostly (sorry guys ) I had just made fun of the RL RPers... the dorky RP battles they have with air swords (you know the type I am talking about ).. so really I had no idea what real RP was... Now what does any of this matter.. im getting there.

But then you have class relations... Rpers despise PLers because many do not RP, Finesse players despise PLers because because they only PL and have no real talents (sorry for the attack just going off my friends who are PLers ), and PLers just want to have fun and not have people complain about them PLing.  

So what can be done to keep everyone happy in PS?  Well FPers and PLers will have to move more towards the RP section.  Over time here you will figure out what PS is or atleast get a general idea, in which the heart is pure RP it seems.  Really if you wont change then you wont have a place here.  Its a simple compromise, I believe we all want PS to be successful...

But getting to a few other questions at hand:

I dont believe there can be RP justification for having the /tell message. It is very useful and helps alot but telepathy???  I believe some game mechanics just need to be there and we dont neccessarily have to be for RP simply because some things like the /tell message have no replacement and I cant see teh function as RP.  Now I do believe a mailbox is a great idea.  Which I do hope that system will later be implemented.. because as of now we have no way to talk to someone out of game unless it is pure OOC like on the forums or in an IRC.  

Bah everything sounded better the first time I wrote it.. stupid brown out

[BaurakSered]

Im not sure if you consider this on topic or not considering the whole discussion is off-topic from the original post, but here goes...

let me first say, that Ive only been playing for two weeks now(12 days to be exact), I only started posting in the forums a few days ago, and i\'ve only just joined this debate as of a a while ago when i stumbled accross this thread. In short, consider me a \"noob\" if you will.

If I had to clasify myself i\'d say im what everyone calls a PL\'er. Actually, take the fact that i\'ve nearly maxed out my stats in a mere 12 days, and you could even might say I am an extreme PL\'er. Believe it or not I enjoy this aspect of the game.

This a chalenge to me, a quest even. Similarly IRL there are body builders who spend most of thier time training thier bodys and taking them to extremes, so maybe PL\'ing isnt so entirely OOC as you may think. A gladiator would spend most of his life in an arena, fighting to make a living. This is also a viable IC choice of lifestyle. Not all RP\'ers have to be adverturers, explorers, merchants, farmers, legendary wariors, barkeeps, etc.

I have friends in-game, I socialize, and I have explored a almost every part of the world that Im aware of. As a child my character played war games, and was apprentice to his father, a blacksmith. So it\'s also not hard to believe that my character would be fascinted or preoccupied by fine weaponry and a good fight. I also plan to make my character a skilled weapon smithy like his father was, but for now that is not possible in-game AFAIK.

what im trying to get at is that maybe people should be less critical of how people choose to enjoy the game. Not all PEOPLE are very social, or team players, or what have you, and not all CHARACTERS will be either. Some will like a chalenge, some will play it safe, others may not even fight at all, and spend thier time within the city limits. Believe it or not, some people even try to cheat thier way through life, and thats thier perogative of course(at least until they get caught)

I say let the PL\'ers powerlevel if they choose. there are ways to PL in-character. and there are also ways to make OOC powerleveling less appealing. For starters, i think changing the stats system(read the whole post) would have the most immediate effect. Other ways, which i\'m sure are already in the works are:

giving more quests and making them more appealing (rewards like experience, unique items, good weapons)
making a wide variety of quests such as: fighting, adventure, strictly story, Magic, Farming, character development, etc
quests that take more time to complete, maybe even month long quests that no single character can complete alone? (forced interaction/cooperation)
quests that are required at certain points in order to continue progressing in certain skills?
more things to do in general (farm, craft, smith, etc)
populating the wild with more monsters (most of it is completely empty)
balancing monsters (no weak 5 pp rogues and the like)
having more diversity in monsters
make the monsters spawn in semi-random places, and allow them to wander rather than stand in place (This should probably be top priority, considering that 90% of players know exactly where to find almost every monster in the game)

Once those things, and many others, have been implemented you will see a lot less of people just killing things, but lets face it, for now there\'s not much more to do... honestly.

well, thats my point of view anyway.

[SuburbanPlankton]

/me gets the fire ready...


Actually, from reading your post, I don\'t think you are doing anything terribly wrong.  There is no problem with spending every waking minute in the Arena fighting, as long as your character has a reason for doing it.  Maybe it\'s a cultural thing, maybe you have made a promise to the gods, maybe you are just trying to impress that cute Fenki that you always see on your way to Harnquist\'s shop.  As long as the character, and not the player has a motivation, then it\'s not a problem.

If you work in some actual RP, then that\'s even better.  You mentioned that you have explored the land thoroughly; hopefully you found time to do some Role Playing while you were traveling the land.  Try to stop by the Tavern from time to time, have a pint or two, and RP with the people there for a while.  Then mention (IC) that you need to head back to the Arena to continue your training.  Then you can be off, safe in the knowledge that you are a \"Role Player\", and not a dreaded \"Power Leveler\".

[r.guppy]

The one thing that really puzzles me is this is a RP game yes ?

 Then why is it that most implemented skills are designed for PL ?

 All the skills that would in-hanse the RP are not implemented ?

 Sorry but thought this should be said as this is the main reason i fell is hindering RP and encouraging PL ?(

[Verrliit]

With regards to my posts and replies made to them, a recapitulation-

I reported on the state of PS, defined what is already in place, how it was being used, and some opinions as to why.
I was called a PLer who did not RP, and was told I did not know what I was talking about.

I showed that I knew what I was talking about, and that I RP more than many.
I was told that I did not RP \"properly\", and that it was not OK to use /tell to cram maximum RP into a limited time.

I said that I would be respected, whether I was liked or not.
I was called a cheater, accused of \"abusing\" features of the game that I had only reported on, and to Ten megs of chat log in four months, the reply was that quality is better than quantity.  Further, although I have played and RP\'d a year\'s worth of hours and chat, in only four months,  I was told that \"I think too highly of myself, without justification\".

I posted a tiny snippet of art.
I was told that there is no place for RP in a forum of a place whose reason for existence is RP.


Summary-

I posted my observations, thoughts and opinions on the current state of things in PS, how it is being used and why.
Responders tried to discredit me, and detract from me. I did not reply to insults, in kind.


Addendum-

To my detractors,

I have read endless discussion of what should and should not be, in PS.  These are design goals.

I see things differently than some do.  I pointed to how players use what has already been built and why they do it that way.  I did not speak of what should be, but what already is.

The players of PS play ingeniously with what little they are given as props. Together we dream out loud, and the stories we live, interact and change each other, and sometimes even deserve to be called Art.

I am here to play; to laugh, to cry, to meet new friends and love them, to play at enemies and allies, power and politics, community and family and fantasy.

I am here to live and tell, a story named Verrliit.

One day I will think of an ending, and after that, perhaps I will begin another tale.

Until then...

(In deference to Seytra, I have omitted the RP that Seytra says is not supposed to be used here, and leave the pounce-kissing of Seytra, and other such inappropriate poking of fun at Seytra, including playfulness, silly imagery, and perhaps even a Knock Knock Joke or a rubber chicken, to the imagination of the reader, who is invited to PM me with things for later use, as long as they are not mean spirited, or personally insulting.)


I continue to be,

The Dark Lady
Verrliit

[Eolius]

What IMO may stay on that page is  
1) the list of who is online and  
2) the list of AP

Nooo... Please tell me you will remove that too, it has been turning advising into a competition and sometimes you can see answers like \"You shouild ask a GM about that\".
Personaly i think that advising should be doing for helping people not for the \"Character stats\" webpage.

Edit: About PL... Please don\'t use that word because frankly i\'ve seen no ocurences for situations that might be described by that word in PS. Levelling is different than powerlevelling. Powerlevelling means that a stronger person helps a weaker one improve his levell or stats by killing monsters that would be impossible for the second mentioned to kill. That would imply group sharing for experience (progression points or weappon stats) and that is impossible in PS.

Edit2: I noticed over time that people tend to blame others so easily that they are not RPing and they are PL.
Try giving each oters the benefit of dout at least, and start by asuming the other is a RPer instead of asuming he or she is a PLer. Saying \"I\'m a good RPer and if i don\'t know you then you are cetainly a PLer\" is not right. Same goes for \"You have max stats, you are a PLer\". Levelling your character is part of \"life\" in Yliakum (or PS, call it whatever you like). Also, some characters need to be strong as part of they\'re RP. I have a story to live but my char gets wiped every month, how does that help?
Of course, i could stand in front of an ulbernaut and type \"/me kills the Ulbernaut giving him a fatal blow with his mighty sword\" and then, perhaps, the ulber would kill me in fact and it will all look so unrealistic. Would that be RP? Or would that be good RP? I guess not. In my opinion RP isnt based on how high are your stats, how many friends you have ingame, how well known you are or how many ales you drank at the tavern, it is a sum of all the above. Want to levell your char without even looking at other people passing by? No problem but i think you should be better off playing a RPG. Want create to live a story? Want to make some friends and live they\'re story too? Want to know fantasy? Want to fall in love? (and this doesn\'t necesarily mean with another person) Then welcome to Planeshift!

PS:

I am here to live and tell, a story named Verrliit.     One day I will think of an ending, and after that, perhaps I will begin another tale.

I hope your storry will be as long as possible and that ending and begining of another tale is far far away, milady.

[r.guppy]

(Quote)
Edit: About PL... Please don\'t use that word because frankly i\'ve seen no ocurences for situations that might be described by that word in PS. Levelling is different than powerlevelling. Powerlevelling means that a stronger person helps a weaker one improve his levell or stats by killing monsters that would be impossible for the second mentioned to kill. That would imply group sharing for experience (progression points or weappon stats) and that is impossible in PS. (end quote)
 
 Am i reading this right its impossible?

An aspiring magi and I got chatting and he needed PP to attain his goal but was greatly hindered by the fact that he could only carry 5 in weight and was not even strong  enough to kill rats, so I took pity on him and led him to the arena. (to the point) (we are not grouped)
  I used what i call my training method, I attack monsters, stop after a few hits, monster is nearly dead, then the magi to be, attacks monster, as soon as he is allowed to. The monster still sees me as the bigger threat to him so keeps attacking me, the magi kills monster (which took a long time) gets PP and loot, (when he was full I picked up loot as it was dropped).
 This went on till he had 500 PP, I then gave him 50 circles and said go train, he asked \"is it ok if I do not train strength (I had advised him to) as I only want to do magic as that is the role i want to play.\" (i said it was a gift to him and he was free to do with it as he saw fit.
 So as you see you can help players gain PP and loot if you are willing to help them become what they want to be.

In RL a hunter would be away on the trail for days, weeks, even months on end with no contact with any other people. This role would suit players who have diffuculty communicating, so, to see what some people call PLs in this light, will serve to assist them in tolerating PLs.

[Seytra]

Originally posted by Verrliit
I reported on the state of PS, defined what is already in place, how it was being used, and some opinions as to why.
I was called a PLer who did not RP, and was told I did not know what I was talking about.

Thereby implying that you do it and condone the reasons you listed.

Originally posted by Verrliit
I showed that I knew what I was talking about, and that I RP more than many.
I was told that I did not RP \"properly\", and that it was not OK to use /tell to cram maximum RP into a limited time.

Originally posted by Verrliit
I said that I would be respected, whether I was liked or not.
I was called a cheater, accused of \"abusing\" features of the game that I had only reported on,

You also made it sound like use of \"any tactic available\" is acceptable while in fact it isn\'t, and implied that you not only condone this, but do it yourself. In no way did you mention that you only commented on things, not doing ot justifying them.

Originally posted by Verrliit
and to Ten megs of chat log in four months, the reply was that quality is better than quantity.  Further, although I have played and RP\'d a year\'s worth of hours and chat, in only four months,  I was told that \"I think too highly of myself, without justification\".[/I]

I posted a tiny snippet of art.
I was told that there is no place for RP in a forum of a place whose reason for existence is RP.

Absolutely not. This forum has sections, and some sections are for RP and others are not. Putting things that belong into one section into any other section is SPAM. RP of the finest quality still is as much SPAM in a tech help section as is a bug report in an RP section.
This is another part of why I think you are superstitious: you think that you do not have to respect obvious rules and don\'t need to use things as they are meant to be used.
Your obvious disregard for the way that things are meant to be used in, board and ingame, fuels the impression that you either don\'t (want to) know or don\'t care. Of the available options \"ignorance\" and \"superstition\" I think \"superstition\" is the likely more fitting one.

Originally posted by Verrliit
Summary-
I posted my observations, thoughts and opinions on the current state of things in PS, how it is being used and why.
Responders tried to discredit me, and detract from me. I did not reply to insults, in kind.

You either kept justifying things that obviously are abuse, and did in no way even hint that you might merely be commenting on things, not condoning or doing them yourself. There was no insult targeted at you. I do not discredit you, I point out things that you are doing wrong, abusing or ignoring. That this takes away all the clout you might think you have gained, is a side-effect.

Originally posted by Verrliit
Addendum-
I see things differently than some do.  I pointed to how players use what has already been built and why they do it that way.  I did not speak of what should be, but what already is.

And made it sound like you condone it and do it yourself, despite obvious reasons not to do it.

Originally posted by Verrliit
(In deference to Seytra, I have omitted the RP that Seytra says is not supposed to be used here, and leave the pounce-kissing of Seytra, and other such inappropriate poking of fun at Seytra, including playfulness, silly imagery, and perhaps even a Knock Knock Joke or a rubber chicken, to the imagination of the reader, who is invited to PM me with things for later use, as long as they are not mean spirited, or personally insulting.)

I am here as player, fully OOC, as is the only way to be in any non RP forum section. I am not a character, neither are you. Therefore there cannot be any RP. Therefore the ridicule you are implying I deserve is completely OOC, i.e., you as player against me as player. There is no layer of RP that you could use to claim the attack isn\'t made at me as paerson or doesn\'t come from you as person. That you still try it is another bad sign.
Rubber chickens aren\'t IC as well, because 1) there is no rubber and 2) there are no chickens.
You show once again that you are unable or unwilling to separate things that must be separate, IC and OOC.

Originally posted by Verrliit
I continue to be,

The Dark Lady
Verrliit

In this section you are nothing but: Verrliit
Everyone knows that by it being written next to your post automatically. It is your forum name, which cuold just as well be \"12345\". You chose it to be the same as your ingame char\'s name, but that is irrelevant. The two still remain completely separate.
Clogging up the post by continously re-stating the obvious and dragging in things that don\'t belong here borders on spam. As I said, put it in your sig if you think it serves any purpose.

In summary: your way of arguing and later saying \"I just pointed it out, I never mentioned I do or condone things\", stating these things by implication instead of actually saying them reminds me a lot of Zanzibar, albeit being different in some respects.

@ r.guppy: Indeed, as I said on other threads, CB actually revolves around levelling and fighting in terms of game mechanics. Also, I fully agree that the possibility to PL in the aiding of levelling of others is a very real possibility in PS and very usable. More than just a few people have refined this to a high degree. Many guilds do this on a regular basis.

Still PLs (in both senses) will not be tolerated by me. At all. :tdown:

@ Eolius: The Ulbernaut example is why I said that what is working and available ingame should match up with what you are RPing. If you RP to kill an Ulbernaut that actually is ingame, then you should be able to actually kill it. Like interacting with people that aren\'t at your location. But you do not have to RP to kill that Ulbernaut. Therefore, you do not have to max out everything that is fight related.

[Eolius]

Originally posted by r.guppy
(Quote)
Edit: About PL... Please don\'t use that word because frankly i\'ve seen no ocurences for situations that might be described by that word in PS. Levelling is different than powerlevelling. Powerlevelling means that a stronger person helps a weaker one improve his levell or stats by killing monsters that would be impossible for the second mentioned to kill. That would imply group sharing for experience (progression points or weappon stats) and that is impossible in PS. (end quote)
 
 Am i reading this right its impossible?

An aspiring magi and I got chatting and he needed PP to attain his goal but was greatly hindered by the fact that he could only carry 5 in weight and was not even strong  enough to kill rats, so I took pity on him and led him to the arena. (to the point) (we are not grouped)
  I used what i call my training method, I attack monsters, stop after a few hits, monster is nearly dead, then the magi to be, attacks monster, as soon as he is allowed to. The monster still sees me as the bigger threat to him so keeps attacking me, the magi kills monster (which took a long time) gets PP and loot, (when he was full I picked up loot as it was dropped).
 This went on till he had 500 PP, I then gave him 50 circles and said go train, he asked \"is it ok if I do not train strength (I had advised him to) as I only want to do magic as that is the role i want to play.\" (i said it was a gift to him and he was free to do with it as he saw fit.
 So as you see you can help players gain PP and loot if you are willing to help them become what they want to be.

In RL a hunter would be away on the trail for days, weeks, even months on end with no contact with any other people. This role would suit players who have diffuculty communicating, so, to see what some people call PLs in this light, will serve to assist them in tolerating PLs.

Hehe, that way PL is umm.. possible but you should see other games ^_^
A friend of mine plays one of these and there the people can go afk and, without moving a finger, they can get to a respectfull levell by sitting on a rock.
My point was actualy that everybody cals everybody a PLer and if you look at the ocurances of this term on the forums you\'ll see that they are far more than the ocurances of this action ingame.

PS: About helping others get pp and money... I did that too with some people but don\'t tell anybody ^_^

[Verrliit]

Originally posted by Seytra

Originally posted by Verrliit
I posted a tiny snippet of art.
I was told that there is no place for RP in a forum of a place whose reason for existence is RP.

Absolutely not. This forum has sections, and some sections are for RP and others are not. Putting things that belong into one section into any other section is SPAM. RP of the finest quality still is as much SPAM in a tech help section as is a bug report in an RP section.
This is another part of why I think you are superstitious: you think that you do not have to respect obvious rules and don\'t need to use things as they are meant to be used.
Your obvious disregard for the way that things are meant to be used in, board and ingame, fuels the impression that you either don\'t (want to) know or don\'t care. Of the available options \"ignorance\" and \"superstition\" I think \"superstition\" is the likely more fitting one.

Originally posted by Verrliit
Summary-
I posted my observations, thoughts and opinions on the current state of things in PS, how it is being used and why.
Responders tried to discredit me, and detract from me. I did not reply to insults, in kind.

You either kept justifying things that obviously are abuse, and did in no way even hint that you might merely be commenting on things, not condoning or doing them yourself. There was no insult targeted at you. I do not discredit you, I point out things that you are doing wrong, abusing or ignoring. That this takes away all the clout you might think you have gained, is a side-effect.

Originally posted by Verrliit
Addendum-
I see things differently than some do.  I pointed to how players use what has already been built and why they do it that way.  I did not speak of what should be, but what already is.

And made it sound like you condone it and do it yourself, despite obvious reasons not to do it.

Originally posted by Verrliit
(In deference to Seytra, I have omitted the RP that Seytra says is not supposed to be used here, and leave the pounce-kissing of Seytra, and other such inappropriate poking of fun at Seytra, including playfulness, silly imagery, and perhaps even a Knock Knock Joke or a rubber chicken, to the imagination of the reader, who is invited to PM me with things for later use, as long as they are not mean spirited, or personally insulting.)

I am here as player, fully OOC, as is the only way to be in any non RP forum section. I am not a character, neither are you. Therefore there cannot be any RP. Therefore the ridicule you are implying I deserve is completely OOC, i.e., you as player against me as player. There is no layer of RP that you could use to claim the attack isn\'t made at me as paerson or doesn\'t come from you as person. That you still try it is another bad sign.
Rubber chickens aren\'t IC as well, because 1) there is no rubber and 2) there are no chickens.
You show once again that you are unable or unwilling to separate things that must be separate, IC and OOC.

Originally posted by Verrliit
I continue to be,

The Dark Lady
Verrliit

In this section you are nothing but: Verrliit
Everyone knows that by it being written next to your post automatically. It is your forum name, which cuold just as well be \"12345\". You chose it to be the same as your ingame char\'s name, but that is irrelevant. The two still remain completely separate.
Clogging up the post by continously re-stating the obvious and dragging in things that don\'t belong here borders on spam. As I said, put it in your sig if you think it serves any purpose.

In summary: your way of arguing and later saying \"I just pointed it out, I never mentioned I do or condone things\", stating these things by implication instead of actually saying them reminds me a lot of Zanzibar, albeit being different in some respects.

@ r.guppy: Indeed, as I said on other threads, CB actually revolves around levelling and fighting in terms of game mechanics. Also, I fully agree that the possibility to PL in the aiding of levelling of others is a very real possibility in PS and very usable. More than just a few people have refined this to a high degree. Many guilds do this on a regular basis.

Still PLs (in both senses) will not be tolerated by me. At all. :tdown:

@ Eolius: The Ulbernaut example is why I said that what is working and available ingame should match up with what you are RPing. If you RP to kill an Ulbernaut that actually is ingame, then you should be able to actually kill it. Like interacting with people that aren\'t at your location. But you do not have to RP to kill that Ulbernaut. Therefore, you do not have to max out everything that is fight related.

Seytra,

I am not fighting with you.

You have tried to attack me, in every way you could think of.  You have attempted to turn the exchange between us into an argument over what the design goals are, or should be.  You have placed me on trial, as character, player and person.

I have been respectful and courteous, throughout.

I even tried to be playful with you, but you have angrily responded that fun is not allowed here, and you would have none of it.

No insult you hurl at me, no accusation of wrongdoing, no amount of putting words in my mouth and then flaming me for them, not even comparing me to the banned Zanzibar/Shalmaneser, will make me look bad or foolish.

However loudly you proclaim how things are supposed to be, it will not make me wrong.

I don\'t need you to agree with me.  If you don\'t like me, I am sorry, but not hurt.

I have no need to insult you, or to say things to make you look foolish and mean, Seytra.

And I have not done so.

I hope you understand that.


V.

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by Seytra
In summary: your way of arguing and later saying \"I just pointed it out, I never mentioned I do or condone things\", stating these things by implication instead of actually saying them reminds me a lot of Zanzibar, albeit being different in some respects.

Hey now, I know we don\'t always get along, but comparing me to Verrliit.....  (joking)


Anyway, since I\'ve forgotten what incident you\'re refering to, it would be nice if you PMed me with what exactly it is you\'re thinking of.  Oh, and I\'m only banned until tuesday Verr.... so see you then :-D

Originally posted by Valbrandr
Finesse Player (FP) - For those of you unaware... there is a third classification .. or atleast I will say there is . The Finesse players are a bit different. I dont know of as many in online gaming... most that I know are primarily involved with console games. But they play to disprove rules in a way. Its about staying at a lower level and still accomplishing whatever... conserving time and being efficient to the utmost degree or atleast attempt to continuely get better and learn tactics for every situation. Its about the challenge.

I like that.  Personally, I don\'t buy into the PL-RP conflict.  As long as you can make your character better, there will be people trying to make their character the best.  And really, PLers do nothing to interfere with RPers.  I think that there are other motives behind labelling people as power-levellers... but this has been discussed to death already.  I don\'t supposed you could explain your concept of the \"FP\" in a bit more detail, for instance give an example of how a planeshift character could be an \"FP\"?