help my guild is no more

[Jakob]

Sure... Prevent me from trying to make the people who are feeling upset and sad feel better.  I know that, but was hoping to stop people fighting over it.  Apparently that has happened anyway so whatever...

[Karyuu]

I was only stating things as they are. There are no fights in any of the Guild Wipe threads, only frustration and a slow understanding and acceptance. I don\'t think there is any particular reason to kill the discussions if they are held in a mature manner, too. So far so good, no flames.

[r.guppy]

I must thank you all for your comments and input.    thank you.
just so you all no i was four at wipe of guild, but  now i am a guild( non guild) of six. yes five minutes is tight but i managed it just pew    

[fken]

Originally posted by Moogie
If you have less than four members in your guild, and it was deleted, now is the time to start organising your guild structure better so that you attract more willing members.

Is it your way to write : \"no national guild allowed?\" or no \"non english speaker guild allowed\"?
Because if mine was international Im sure I could find 10 members in less than 4hours (but 5french members... when your active members are away for holidays... its pretty hard)

Nice rules! nice organization once again...

[Karyuu]

Originally posted by fken

Originally posted by Moogie
If you have less than four members in your guild, and it was deleted, now is the time to start organising your guild structure better so that you attract more willing members.

Is it your way to write : \"no national guild allowed?\" or no \"non english speaker guild allowed\"?

It could be just me, but I see none of that in Moogie\'s post...

[Jakob]

He\'s trying to say that it\'s unrealistic to expect an American, a European, and an Asian to be around at the same time, within 5 minutes is just not reasonable under those circumstances.  I personally don\'t think it\'s an issue, but whatever.

[steuben]

a couple of questions. first is this 5 minutes automatic?
or does it go through gm approval.

second is there like a little toggle that will hold off that kill guild command for 12 hours. a petition to a gm saying i\'m creating guild xyz with members foo, bar, baz, wabble, wibble, and wobble.  and the gm then sets the clock. after it runs out then the (maybe a good thing for the next server update) or am i writing a design document at this point. given that i haven\'t seen that in the update info, i\'m guessing i\'m writing a bit of a wish list item.

[Moogie]

Why? If you have all that information and know what you\'re doing, I don\'t see what difference it would make for you to just wait untill you have 5 minutes spare time.

[fken]

1) I wasnt aware developpers wanted to implement this new rule. Please dont tell me I am an exception!

2) Having a non english speakers guild mean you have to be sure that all your members are ready to be invited to the guild because then you\'ll have to invite everybody just to keep your guild. (having a national guild for a too little game means you wont find a lot of candidates)

3) If you wanna save your guild you just need two player : one for creating and recruiting the other to create rogue account just to add members

4) I hope there will never have a server crash or you could pay 20000trias for nothing

5) as long as the dev dont let users to participate to the project by really speaking about their project, I cant see what forbid the possibility to see other wipes and other \"changes\"like that!

[hitancrias]

Originally posted by fken
1) I wasnt aware developpers wanted to implement this new rule. Please dont tell me I am an exception!

It was indeed  better if they had announced it earlier, Acraig has already stated they will do so if they have more \"changes of this nature\". So, better luck next time, nobody is perfect.

2) Having a non english speakers guild mean you have to be sure that all your members are ready to be invited to the guild because then you\'ll have to invite everybody just to keep your guild. (having a national guild for a too little game means you wont find a lot of candidates)

All this has nothing to do with having a non English speakers guild or not. Everybody is supposed to find potential members on beforehand. (Nobody can recrute 4 members in 5 minutes, that\'s why they chose such a short time span I suppose). It\'s only an advantage if all your members come from the same geographical region, since that makes it easier to scedule a meeting. I understand your point that it\'s harder for a french guild to find suitable people, since people who speak french are a minority in PS, but then again, an RP based guild has the same problems. (Think of how much time it would take to find 4 other bards, monks or thieves who are willing to start a guild with you.)

3) If you wanna save your guild you just need two player : one for creating and recruiting the other to create rogue account just to add members

That\'s plain cheating. Besides I think it\'s quite challaging to do that all in 5 minutes.

4) I hope there will never have a server crash or you could pay 20000trias for nothing

I hope so too, or I hope they implement a system that makes you pay after you  created the guild or that gives your back your money if the guild creation fails.

5) as long as the dev dont let users to participate to the project by really speaking about their project, I cant see what forbid the possibility to see other wipes and other \"changes\"like that!

What do you think the forums and the IRC channels are for? Besides that, PS is in the first place about developers making a game because they like to do so. We should be a bit more grateful and whine a bit less. What ever they do or change, there\'ll always be people complaining about it. Of course: game play is far from perfect yet, but they do the best they can.

[Moogie]

(having a national guild for a too little game means you wont find a lot of candidates)

Good. Guilds restricted by OOC factors such as a player\'s nationality or mother tongue deserve as little support as possible, IMO.

[r.guppy]

Yes the devs & co. do a great job and yes it is a great game but I would like to point out that to change the rules (in this case guild rules) without proper warning, in guild channels, is asking for this kind of angry and frustrated response. Especially since the new rules have still not been officially posted in the guilds forum.

I would also like to point out that we are also doing them a favour by testing the game, and where possible finding bugs and reporting them, leaving them free to do the all important development and programming.

I for one would like to thank everybody for their involvement in the game whether players, devs or gms etc.      

[Kosh_Dukai]

Originally posted by r.guppy
Yes the devs & co. do a great job and yes it is a great game but I would like to point out that to change the rules (in this case guild rules) without proper warning, in guild channels, is asking for this kind of angry and frustrated response.

Some kind of prior proper announcement would be nice yes, but remember, Devs are Devs, not PR experts.

You must not forget that it was your own choice to take your chance at trying out this project, still at pre-beta stage.

I\'m quite happy for that privilege alone. Instead of having to follow it\'s progress by reading some logs and screenshots on some website, waiting for the final beta version.

So, keep in mind that things will keep happening, some suddenly, some not, some nice, some not that nice, some planned, some just unfortunate accidents, etc...

Originally posted by r.guppy
I would also like to point out that we are also doing them a favour by testing the game, and where possible finding bugs and reporting them, leaving them free to do the all important development and programming.

It\'s mutual. You think we\'re doing them a favour by testing it but you should know the amount of work involved in simply understanding (pseudo) bug reports, some with not enough data to be useful, some others simply not bugs or misleading, etc...

So, as you can see, we may complain about some things not being done properly from a user point of view (and rightly so) but remember that you usually don\'t see the same kind of rants from devs complaining about duplicate, confusing and misleading bug reports, isn\'t it so ?

[r.guppy]

you miss the point.

all i was saying was that although the brilliant work of the devs is much appreciated and and the problems they face understood, they must expect some criticism when they make changes without warning when a warning would have been feasible.

\"leaving them free to do the all important development and programming.\"
meaning I acknowledge the fact that their work is far more important than merely testing.

As for bug reports; when I submitted one I first read the guide and to my utter confusion found the report form totally different to that described in the guide. It\'s no wonder they get misleading and incomplete reports.

I see this as a two way street (information is meant to flow both ways, like all major roadways throughout the world they are all governed by rules without which the flow would cease).    

[Pestilence]

hmm have to say five minutes seems to be to little time. Specially in guilds hanging around that number. How can you check in every five minutes to check if noone left?

I also asume this means you need to have five members online at the same time when making a new guild. Think five are a lot of people to get online at the same time if you are starting a new guild.

Good. Guilds restricted by OOC factors such as a player\'s nationality or mother tongue deserve as little support as possible, IMO.

Agree moogie but this time limitation seems to encourage guilds started by people from the same timezone not discourage it. Don\'t really call it a guild below 4 persons

PS: seems to encourage massrecruiting of newbies to start a guild aswell. That way you would be safe from falling below the dreaded 5 members