Spawn owning.... a way to keep it from happening...

[Gravalden]

I personaly have ran into alot of higher lvl player that stand right next to where a monster will spawn. Not letting any one else have a go at it.. Now i am not saying every one does this, there are those few that do let others have a go at the moster. But there are the ones that won\'t let anyone have a go, and will not group up...

I figue if there is a way to make the monster\'s spawn sight be randomized with in a limited area. This will cut down, if not rid the plane shift world of the spawn owning..

I ask this why?
 For quite some time i have watched people spawn own a much lower lvl monster for hours. Just to get the rare loot that might come up. Leaving the lower lvl people with fewer monsters that they can actually kill with out bug exploiting.. But the bug exploiting is another matter altogether.

I feel this would make the plane shift world a much better place, cuting down on people becoming mad at each other. it would also make the higher up players search other places for diffrent monsters..

If any one else has any thing to add please fell free....

Gravalden....... also my ingame name

[Black_rose]

hmm.. i say make no spawns like you said, monsters should have random spawn points get it??? and if they kill a player they could have a level.

[Karyuu]

Black_rose, your posts make very little sense, as usual o.o

Spawn camping is a very annoying problem, I definitely agree. I think randomizing the spawns would help greatly - at least players will have to run around instead of idling, and it becomes an exciting race of who-reaches-the-mob-first. I believe DaveG once suggested that in the sewers, rats \"spawn\" (or climb, rather) out from the ends of sewer pipes that currently only serve a decorative purpose, then scurry around in random directions. It\'s a more realistic suggestion, and perhaps some other elements of the landscape could serve for spawns outside the sewers as well. DaveG also suggested that if a player stands near the spawn point, the critters would become aggravated and refuse to come out ;) I liked it.

[Neryam]

Hmm that wat-in the pipe idea is very nice. I like it alot.. But what bout other monsters?
Mabye in the arena the monsters would come out of a cage in the wall, and in the ruins ulbrnauts would come out of a cave..

[pwxyzg]

wouldn\'t the camp spot(s) just move to a sufficient radius around the exit / spawn point so as to allow the mob to come out? (esp since there would be far fewer spawn points?)

not to mention the abuse already thrown at players that wander into spawn areas.. not to mention gett\'n your attack on a rat before someone iwht maxed agility?  doesn\'t happen.  

it seems things would probably just get more territorial. .. hmmm, maybe the same for random..

but random can mean many things.. maybe it is just that each mob has at least 2 positions in very differnt areas of the map / dungeon?  would make everyones chances of finding stuff very err... random-ish ..

/me licks finger and puts it up to test the winds and says \"hmmm.. random-ish\"

[DaveG]

Hmm...  I don\'t even have to post anymore...  Karyuu does it for me.  

My pipe spawn suggestion might shrink the number of spawn points, true.  But, when the rats exit, they\'d scurry off and scatter off to parts of the sewers without rats.  And since they wouldn\'t exit a pipe anywhere near the smell of a dead friend, camping near the pipe wouldn\'t be that useful.

People will always camp.  We just want to take it down from a boring, monotonous, annoyance to a \"realistic\", \"natural\", (note the quotes... giant one-eyed rats are not real...) part of the game.  If teams of players go hunting with a strategy to outsmart the rats, in my opinion that\'s great!  We have players working together and using intelligence to hunt.  Granted though, if the hunt ever gets to easy, we\'d need to make the rats smarter...  

Though, on the subject of \"hogging\" a mob, the situation is far less clear.  Your character may simply not be the sharing type, or just might not feel like it at the moment.  They shouldn\'t be forced to share stuff.  The problem is that the kill-protector is way too strong.  Touch a monster and it\'s yours...  I think the thing needs to go, frankly.  I\'d much rather have the forcing be at the end, with experience and loot assignment.  (though, we\'d need some way to settle fights between players... and that\'s another thread... or another forum for that matter)  And, higher-level players sometimes hog mobs out of laziness/greed and sometimes lower-level players just think they are.  There are sometimes some newbies that think they can take on something that they really can\'t, and some people flat out ignore them.  The only real solution to the host of problems associated with hogging mobs, is to remove the ability to hog mobs.  This stupid kill-protector annoys me more and more every day............

[Kim]

People camping spawns is annoying and rather unrealistic to me. I remember DaveG\'s suggestion and it is a good one. But like Pwxyzg said, this would mean there would be a defined radius around the pipe that you could not be in so rats would exit. Players who like to camp would sit themselves right outside this radius after they\'re figured out what it is.

Random popup points for monsters seem less believable, but wouldn\'t suffer this same fate. Maybe there\'s a workaround though because I like the rats/pipe thing (arena mosters/cage, ulbernauts/cave, etc).

I think Black_rose meant that if a monster happens to kill a player, it would \'level up\", and actually get harder to kill and thus serving for a challenge for stronger players. This should have a limit though, because a killer rat stronger than an ulbernaut doesn\'t make sense.

[DaveG]

No definite radii...  Too exploitable.  The spawning rat would look for the smell of a dead comrade.  In other words, if a rat just recently got killed going off to the right (before reaching his destination in an un-occupied area of the sewers) he\'d go left instead.  If all directions had met with failure recently, the rat would leave through a different pipe.  If the sewers are so crowded, that every single pipe was camped, from all sides, then rats would dig new holes in areas that \"just happened\" to have no players around...    (aka, spawn where no one\'s looking)

The pipe spawns would just be the ones for people to see...  Some totally random spawns in un-seen areas would be perfectly fine in my book.  So long as no one sees a monster pop into existence, it\'s all good.  

[SuburbanPlankton]

I would hope that this becomes somewhat less of a problem once there is more to do in the game.  At this point, your choices are:

kill monsters
mine
stand around and chat

If you want to increase your stats, the only productive way of doing it is killing, as mining takes way too long and ore is worth next to nothing at this point.  So you need to kill monsters, and lots of them, to get trias an PPs to advance.

And I\'m not talking just about PLers here; even to get just a few levels in your weapon of choice, and then to buy some decent equipment, takes a fair amount of killing.  If you don\'t want it to take weeks, you pretty much need to stake out a spawn point and go at it.

Of course, that doesn\'t mean you have to be a jerk about it; you don\'t need to spend hours in the same spot, and if someone wants to group with you, let them in and go find some bigger monsters you can handle together.


Back to my original point:  Hopefully when there are more things to do, people will find other ways to amuse themselves.  If I could mine some iron, sment it into steel, and hammer the steel into a sword, then I wuldn\'t have to camp out at a spawn point for 6 hours so that I can afford to buy the sword.

Or I might not want to buy a sword in the first place.  Maybe I set up an apothecary shop: I dig up herbs, I purchase other ingrdients from players and merchants, I make potions, then players come to me to buy them.  At this point, this option is unavailable (like a host of others), so I do what most other players do: I kill lots and lots of monsters.

There will always be players who camp out at spawn points and act like jerks.  But in the future I think the majority of those will either find something else to do in-game, or get bored altogether and move on to the next game.

[Black_rose]

Originally posted by Karyuu
Black_rose, your posts make very little sense, as usual o.o

YOU REMEMBERED ME!!!! no one ever remembers me...

[Sensotaka]

I noted recently a technique in use by campers that ties up an NPC for hours. For lack of something better I will refer to it as rotation camping.

It works like this:
A group of 4 to 6 campers will surround a valuable NPC and they allow no one else to join their group. All but one of the campers attack the NPC and the spoils are split among the attackers. When one of them gets full, the odd camper immidiately replaces him while he goes to sell his loot. Once the loot is sold, he returns to await the next camper who gets his fill in order to replace him. So it goes in rotation and the NPC is tied up for as long as they want him.

Suggested solution:
Placing a limit on the number of times a player / group (number of players in group times limit) could loot a specific NPC. After this limit is reached, the player / players in the group would have to visit another NPC in a different area in order to reset the no loot limit. You could put the limit reset on the group itself, but then there would not be anything to stop the campers from disolving the group and regrouping on the campsite.

(Dev\'s, I respect both your abilities and your dedication and I am truly grateful for you providing this great community / game for me to play in. But... (you knew there was one coming... ) the camping issue is one that is sapping the life from your creation and giving it over to the pwr lvlers and pkers of Runescape style tradition. The fact is, that the great wipe we had all hoped for to level the playing field has only benifited the cheats and opportunists. Honest players are worse off than before the wipe.

That the camping issue has not been solved and the plaza remains a killing zone for newcomers endangers the realm itself. Indeed, some I know have left the realm never to return, disgusted over what is happening to it. I strongly urge you to fix this problem before the next great wipe/update.)

[DaveG]

The rather organized camping system you described, while annoying to those not in the group, is not evil or anything.  Just too easy.  Looting bans are a bad idea, and would serve no real purpose.  Just because it annoys you, doesn\'t mean we should write bans against it into the code...

What we need to do is make the spawns such that this sort of thing isn\'t so easy.  All I\'m really looking for here, is the need for hunters to have to ~move~ and put effort into the activity.  At far least, I want PLers to have to do more than just stand in one spot and press the attack key and loot key every so often.  At best, I\'d like everyone have to put in some thought and effort to do battle in this game.

[Krey]

Talking about putting some thought into battles .. I \'ve found a way to make a fight a bit more interesting recently.

What I do is equip myself a good old fashioned claymore and a nice shield. Then when engaging any enemy I start out in full defence and try to switch to bloody attack just when I am about to take a swing. As soon as I made my attack I go back to full defence and attempt to repeat this. That way I get minimum damage while doing maximum damage to my opponent.

Now I was thinking perhaps this could be implemented in some way so we needed to actively attack and defend. Perhaps some sort of signal, a sound or an arm going back to prepare for a strike which would then give the player a few seconds to press an attack key. If this isn\'t done the attack will fail or be less significant and the same with defending. Weapon skill levels would make sure you \'d have more time to press the right buttons or give clearer signals and a more syncrone fighting style making it easier.

A system like that would definitely make fighting less of a drag than it is.

[DaveG]

First of all... last I checked shields still don\'t work...

Secondly, yes... I\'d love to have some kind of real-time aspects added to the combat system.  But, we want to keep the game dialup-friendly, and that would drastically increase the amount of data sent back and forth.

Thirdly, hmm... odd idea with the stance uses, and it\'s almost a bug... though not quite...

[Jakob]

Originally posted by Black_rose

Originally posted by Karyuu
Black_rose, your posts make very little sense, as usual o.o

YOU REMEMBERED ME!!!! no one ever remembers me...

I remember you too...

Originally posted by Black_rose
well of course rs is worse then ps,

p is 2 letters above r (pqrs) meaning we are better,

from an old thread I created about spoonscape for people who where asking questions about it.


I think if people are camping, and a certain spawn point determines that JoePublic has killed 90 out of the last 90 spawns, and is still there, the next spawn should be an Ulbernaut which kills JoePublic then walks out of the area into the ruins outside hydlaa, or just disapeers again...